Norman FD/EMS notes

[plaws]

Have you seen the new construction on Station 8 on NW 36th. They must have had the contract ready to go as soon as the sales tax was passed.

I saw it a few months back when they were moving dirt. Engine 9, which should be on Alameda near 36th, isn't supposed to open until next year, which will be 3 years into the 5-year "temporary" sales tax. I asked my councilor if that meant the firehouse would be closed when the tax expired. I didn't get an answer.

Still and all, a Tanker at 6's is a hell of a lot better than a Tanker at 1's. If it's true.

 

[Medstarmedic]

I can assure you that you will won't see non-fully paramedic units dispatched on critical calls. The lower staffing is ONLY for routine transfers.

BOOMER!

You obviously haven't been keeping up with what goes on in town..... the "70" units run several 9-1-1 calls a day, as well the full time trucks being staffed with EVO's to cover opening almost daily. You are by no means guaranteed two paramedics when you dial 9-1-1 in Norman any more.

Just to touch base on an earlier post also, the medics don't live in the ambulances at EMSSTAT like they would in OKC. The units are assigned to a station and do not shift coverage to cover open districts. If 30 (from southside) gets a call, then their district remains uncovered until they are available again. If another call comes in from their district one of the trucks from another station has an extended response into their district.

 

[Okla-by-God-homa]

Interesting that you are so sure of this. Is it from first hand knowledge or just visiting from Georgia?

 

[WX5JCH]

We still have a hear radio in our ER. 155.340. All ems units call in on it. We used to have a UHF system years ago, but it's gone now. Now there is talk of the 800 system coming soon. We have a moto repeater on the roof for our narrowband system, going to test it this week for the state wide hospital drill.

 

[plaws]

the "70" units run several 9-1-1 calls a day, as well the full time trucks being staffed with EVO's to cover opening almost daily. You are by no means guaranteed two paramedics when you dial 9-1-1 in Norman any more.

I gather that EVO is Emergency Vehicle Operator. But they're EMTs, right? Basics? Surely Oklahoma is modern enough to require 2 EMTs (of any level) .... right?

Thanks for confirmation of what I suspected about coverage. "System Status Management" in Norman seems to consist of the dispatcher sending a unit on a call and then a crew chief telling the dispatcher to send someone else.

One of these days, they'll be a lawsuit. Just hope it isn't one of my survivors!

 

[plaws]

I gather that EVO is Emergency Vehicle Operator. But they're EMTs, right? Basics? Surely Oklahoma is modern enough to require 2 EMTs (of any level) .... right?

Ha! Had to answer my own question and the answer is Yes, Oklahoma allows ambulances to be staffed with One (1) Emergency Medical Technician and One (2) Emergency Medical Responder which is defined in the law as someone who has completed a first responder class. Wheee.

I get that there are many rural areas of the state where the local service is doing well if they can get a unit to the scene in 15 minutes with one guy that can spell EMT. I get that.

Norman, however, is a city of 100,000 people and deserves better on 9-1-1 calls.


http://www.ok.gov/health/documents/2009rulesandregs.pdf

 

[Okla-by-God-homa]

Please enlighten us, what do you mean by better? Are you drawing from your opinion or from some verifiable sources? Just what service in this state runs at this "higher standard"? Does it not mean anything that every single service in the state.....yes, all of them use Norman as the standard of excellence? I'm sorry, I just don't understand these constant "pot shots" at a service. If it's something against the hospital that is much easier to understand, but not the guys who do this on a daily basis.

 

[plaws]

There's not a doubt in my mind that the folks on the street care ... they are rarely the problem.

Given the continuous unit shortages -- Crew Chiefs are often sent on runs with fire because no ambo is available -- it's inevitable.

The crews will hate it, the crew chiefs will hate it, and the people of Norman will never know ... until they have to call ... and wait ... and wait ... and wait.

Reposted for the benefit of someone trying to pick a fight.

 

[plaws]

Did I hear a Tanker 6 on the air the other day? Since I haven't seen mention of the city buying a new Tanker, can I assume they finally moved the tanker from Station 1 (surrounded by hydrants) to Station 6 (miles from those same hydrants)?

Confirmed this myself. No idea what criteria they use to decide when to dispatch it. I hope it's not once they get to the scene ...

 

[Okla-by-God-homa]

Nope....not trying to pick a fight at all. I'm just trying to sincerely understand the criteria you would like to see for staffing and response times. If you want me to see your side then help me to understand where you are coming from.

 

[plaws]

Nope....not trying to pick a fight at all. I'm just trying to sincerely understand the criteria you would like to see for staffing and response times. If you want me to see your side then help me to understand where you are coming from.

I thought that was pretty obvious, but OK.

Let's start with our neighbors to the north. EMSA's western div is required to respond within 9 minutes 90% of the time.

I'm sure some will immediately pipe up and say "yeah, but EMSA never meets that!", which may even be true (anecdotes != data).

EMSSTAT has no such stated goal so there is no possible standard to adhere to (or violate!).

Can't find it on the website, but I'm fairly certain that all EMSA units carry two EMT-Ps (happy to be corrected!)

Until recently, this was also the case with EMSSTAT but as we know, bean-counters outrank everyone else, so now we have some ambulances that have an EMT-P and a first responder. Wouldn't be so bad if Norman Fire had Paramedic Engines, but this does not seem to be the case ...

 

[Medstarmedic]

Would you consider having 1 or no ambulances available for Norman acceptable? Because that is exactly what happens on near daily basis. There may have been a point in time when EMSSTAT was example for the rest of the state, but that day sadly has passed.

plaws - EMSA does not staff their ambulances with two paramedics. They staff one paramedic and an EMT-basic or intermediate. However, OKCFD does have paramedic engines for the majority of their stations. As you pointed out, that is not the case for NFD. Actually, NFD does not have any paramedic engines.

 

[n5bew1]

Would you consider having 1 or no ambulances available for Norman acceptable? Because that is exactly what happens on near daily basis. There may have been a point in time when EMSSTAT was example for the rest of the state, but that day sadly has passed.

plaws - EMSA does not staff their ambulances with two paramedics. They staff one paramedic and an EMT-basic or intermediate. However, OKCFD does have paramedic engines for the majority of their stations. As you pointed out, that is not the case for NFD. Actually, NFD does not have any paramedic engines.

I am just a citizen of Norman. Why has EMSTAT fallen to where it is now? Norman Regional cut backs?
Not enough paramedics available?? Bad management decisions?

 

[Medstarmedic]

I am just a citizen of Norman. Why has EMSTAT fallen to where it is now? Norman Regional cut backs?
Not enough paramedics available?? Bad management decisions?

All of the above.............

 

[n5bew1]

All of the above.............

Perhaps they could put Moore hospital on Ebay and get rid of one ball and chain around their ankle.

 

[plaws]

Would you consider having 1 or no ambulances available for Norman acceptable? Because that is exactly what happens on near daily basis.

And the "transfer truck" never goes on 9-1-1 jobs, either. Read that here myself. Sure, you may hear exactly that on the radio, but who are you going to believe? The dispatcher or RadioReference? :lol:

plaws - EMSA does not staff their ambulances with two paramedics. They staff one paramedic and an EMT-basic or intermediate. However, OKCFD does have paramedic engines for the majority of their stations. As you pointed out, that is not the case for NFD. Actually, NFD does not have any paramedic engines.

OK, I wondered. I did some more digging on the EMSA site the other day and had begun to wonder since there were so many mentions of EMT-As and EMT-Is. No "Emergency Vehicle Operators" though?

They were all-paramedic, all the time back in the day, right?

 

[plaws]

Would you consider having 1 or no ambulances available for Norman acceptable? Because that is exactly what happens on near daily basis. There may have been a point in time when EMSSTAT was example for the rest of the state, but that day sadly has passed..

How about this - is it acceptable for an ambulance to run Code 3 from 36th NW and Tecumseh to 168th NE and Indian Hills?

Yeah, I didn't think so either.

The google says that's 23 miles or so. Only took 32 minutes. Don't *think* the guy bled out or anything (E5 was there, after all).

I've said many times that this isn't about the quality of the people on the street it's about the quality of the service as a whole.

BTW - when you hear an engine co and EMSSTAT 90-something dispatched, that's your clue that there are no ambulances available.

 

[Okla-by-God-homa]

I have refrained on purpose responding and actually will still be taking the high road. I believed that this forum was for the sharing of scanner info and related radio topics, Instead it appears to have become a snipers paradise. If you truly want to voice your opinion about this subject the try going to a city council meeting or a hospital board meeting and try to be a part of the solution. Oh, one last thing, good luck with your fire department paramedic service.

 

[SABRE46]

There is no need to have two paramedics on a bus. If the patient needs ALS care, the paramedic will attend the patient. If the patient needs BLS care, the basic will attend the patient.

Don't know how it is everywhere else but I know in my F.D. we are all either Basics or First Responders at minimum and are more than happy to ride in with the ambulance to the hospital if the medics on the truck need help. (full arrests etc etc...)

On BLS trucks there are no paramedics and they have to call for and intercept if they need ALS assistance. It happens all the time.

I don't know if Oklabygodhoma was trying to take a stab at ALS engine companies but seeing as how they arrive on scene first the majority of the time, you should be able to see that they would help more than they hurt.

Fact of the matter is that we are becoming busier and busier and facing bigger and bigger budget cuts every year which precludes putting more personnel and equipment on the street. Unfortunately this is leading to the deterioration of service that you guys are all hearing on the radios these days and I just don't see it getting any better.

 

[plaws]

Fact of the matter is that we are becoming busier and busier and facing bigger and bigger budget cuts every year which precludes putting more personnel and equipment on the street. Unfortunately this is leading to the deterioration of service that you guys are all hearing on the radios these days and I just don't see it getting any better.

What concerns me is that there isn't any mechanism for the city to do anything about EMSSTAT shortages directly. The city somehow controls the hospital, I believe by appointing their board of directors, but that seems to be the extent of their control.

There is no contract for EMS - I know, I asked. The only contract that exists is one for administrative services provided by city police dispatchers.

I have heard that NFD FFs are getting training above and beyond EMT-A, but I've not received any specifics yet and I have asked. Increasing the FD's EMS capability seems to be the only way to improve EMS in Norman.

It's amusing to me how a city of 100,000 people still acts like a small town. When you ask questions no one wants to answer, the immediate response is to circle the wagons and attack the person asking. :lol: