Not Able to Receive P-25 Phase 2 transmissions.

[buddrousa]

I did not look up the sites went on other post stating SIMULCAST.

What is the difference between simulcast and multicast?
AI Overview
Simulcast and multicast are both methods for broadcasting content to multiple locations, but simulcast transmits the same content simultaneously on the same frequency, while multicast transmits the same content simultaneously on different frequencies.

 

[sallen07]

Right ... the sites ARE simulcast (except for the sixth site). But each site (not tower) is using different frquencies. So I guess you could call this a "multicast simulcast system". (It really isn't though; the TGs you hear on each site vary.)

There's no way to pick just one tower from a simulcast "site", but you CAN pick a different site (and thus a different set of towers).

Will that work? Probably not, but if I were the OP I would try it. What is there to lose?

 

[daveo89]

It's not locking onto the control channel due to simulcast distortion. I don't think there is a "hardware issue" with your scanner; it's just not designed to handle simulcast, and the Monroe County system is very much simulcast. If it cannot decode the control channel it will look as if there is no signal.

You might try monitoring one of the sites that is further away from you, or you can try the various "tricks" to deal with simulcast (less antenna, directional antenna pointed at one tower, play with settings) but based on experience I doubt you will have any luck.

Your scanner and money so feel free to send it in (assuming Whistler is doing repairs; last I knew they were not yet) but I doubt they will find anything broken.

I had a WS-1095 (that I sold) and a Pro-668 with the Whistler upgrade (on long-term loan to my dad). Neither of them could EVER pick up anything on the Monroe County system.

At the beginning of my journey in searching out this issue, I would have agreed with you. But During my troubleshooting, I loaded a couple of other trunked systems with the same results. The radio wouldn't pull anything in. I used the Wegmans DMR system and the Kodak Motorola system. And as I mentioned, the results were the same. I also went on the road to different areas and took several antennas with me. All the conventional frequencies came in great and strong. But nothing on the trunked systems.

 

[daveo89]

Right ... the sites ARE simulcast (except for the sixth site). But each site (not tower) is using different frquencies. So I guess you could call this a "multicast simulcast system". (It really isn't though; the TGs you hear on each site vary.)

There's no way to pick just one tower from a simulcast "site", but you CAN pick a different site (and thus a different set of towers).

Will that work? Probably not, but if I were the OP I would try it. What is there to lose?

 

[buddrousa]

I'm mostly interested in the Fire depts. in the area. I know that the sheriff's dept. has some encrypted frequencies. Mostly Tac channels. The FD's don't have any. On the "mute" thing. Someone reached out to me from another board and told me the mute will stay on until a signal is heard and then become un-muted when the channel is broadcasting. What it doesn't look like is that my radio is not receiving the signal for some reason. I'm going to get my TRX-1 file together so the wise people on here can look it over and see what I missed.

This is not at all how my TRX's operate. The word mute never displays.
Have you replaced the SD Card?
Have you made any Firmware Changes?

 

[daveo89]

There's no way to pick just one tower from a simulcast "site", but you CAN pick a different site (and thus a different set of towers).

This I haven't done. Where would I be able to make that choice?

 

[sallen07]

At the beginning of my journey in searching out this issue, I would have agreed with you. But During my troubleshooting, I loaded a couple of other trunked systems with the same results. The radio wouldn't pull anything in. I used the Wegmans DMR system and the Kodak Motorola system. And as I mentioned, the results were the same. I also went on the road to different areas and took several antennas with me. All the conventional frequencies came in great and strong. But nothing on the trunked systems.

OK couple more thoughts:

1) Keep in mind that Whistler scanners do not trunk-track DMR or NXDN, so if you are listening to a DMR system (like Wegmans) the scanner is not looking for and locking onto the control channel like it would be with a P25 system.

2) Not sure if those systems are a good test. AFAIK there is very little traffic on the Kodak system nowadays, and pretty sure the Wegmans DMR sites are designed for a very small converage area (antenna on top of a short building and in some cases low power). I'm less than five miles from their big complex near the airport and can pick up traffic from what's listed as the "Fisher Road Warehouse" but not from the "Brooks Avenue Warehouse" which is in the same complex. I'm about 7.5 miles from the Kodak system and while I see a couple bars of signal (using a BCD996P2) the scanner will not lock onto the control channel.

If you want to try a DMR system I'd suggest programming the Saianet Rochester site. You should be able to pick that up anywhere in the county. But again, the scanner won't trunk-track; it will just scan all the voice channels looking for traffic.

 

[daveo89]

This is not at all how my TRX's operate. The word mute never displays.
Have you replaced the SD Card?
Have you made any Firmware Changes?

When I run the TRX control program, that's when I would see the "mute" above the frequency listing that was being scanned. I learned from another board that that's the way it would operate until a signal is received and then it would "unmute". From that discussion, this is not a problem.

I have tried several SD cards with a brand new on in the radio now.

I have also downloaded and installed the recent copy of the Firmware from the Whistler site.

Thanks for the advise. Anything at this point is helpful.

 

[daveo89]

OK couple more thoughts:

1) Keep in mind that Whistler scanners do not trunk-track DMR or NXDN, so if you are listening to a DMR system (like Wegmans) the scanner is not looking for and locking onto the control channel like it would be with a P25 system.

2) Not sure if those systems are a good test. AFAIK there is very little traffic on the Kodak system nowadays, and pretty sure the Wegmans DMR sites are designed for a very small converage area (antenna on top of a short building and in some cases low power). I'm less than five miles from their big complex near the airport and can pick up traffic from what's listed as the "Fisher Road Warehouse" but not from the "Brooks Avenue Warehouse" which is in the same complex. I'm about 7.5 miles from the Kodak system and while I see a couple bars of signal (using a BCD996P2) the scanner will not lock onto the control channel.

If you want to try a DMR system I'd suggest programming the Saianet Rochester site. You should be able to pick that up anywhere in the county. But again, the scanner won't trunk-track; it will just scan all the voice channels looking for traffic.

Thanks for the insight. I wasn't sure about either of those sites. Thought I'd give it a try.

 

[tvengr]

Try the scanner without the control program. The East site, which covers Rochester, is a simulcast nightmare.

 

[sallen07]

This I haven't done. Where would I be able to make that choice?

You're importing from the database, yes?

While my Pro-668 is hundreds of miles away in a different state, I *do* still have the programming software on my PC. Here are step-by-step instructions:

- Select "Library Import" from tabs at top.
- Chose "Preferred" from "Select Import Type" drop-down.
- Data Type "Counties/Cities" and pick New York. Click Next.
- Pick Monroe from county/city list, then "Trunked Systems". Click Next.
- Check box next to "Monroe/Ontario Counties". Click Sites.
- Unselect the check boxes for any site you do NOT want to import.
- At this point you can either click "Talkgroups" if you want to limit which TGs are imported, or just click "Import Selected Channels" (the default is all TGs).
- Click "Import Channels".

 

[sallen07]

Try the scanner without the control program. The East site, which covers Rochester, is a simulcast nightmare.

Curious why that would fix anything. The control program is similar to the remote control of a Uniden scanner in Proscan. All it does is copy the display and give you access to the front panel controls from your PC. I believe the OP also stated that different locations had been tried which would imply not connected to a PC.

The whole system is a simulcast nightmare and traffic for the city is carried on all three Monroe County sites.

 

[tvengr]

Give this file a try. I moved the conventional frequencies in scan list 16 to scan list 17. The Monroe County trunked system has been separated from the conventional frequencies. Scan lists 11 & 12 use the East site. Scan lists 13 & 14 use the West site. Scan lists 15 & 16 use the South site. When you load the file, only the Monroe County trunked system will be scanning with all 3 sites. I turned off Digital AGC on the 3 Monroe County trunked systems. The AGC action can increase garbled audio problems with simulcast sites. Scan lists as follows:

SCAN LISTS:
11. MonCo East Fire
12. MonCo East PD
13. MonCo West Fire
14. MonCo West PD
15. MonCo South Fire
16. MonCo South PD

 

[ny2us]

I'm in Rochester NY, Monroe County and the public safety went to the P-25 phases 2 system. Since then and with much downloading and tinkering with my radio, TRX-1, I am at a brick wall. I can receive all the conventional channels with out any problem. But nothing on the P-25. I also noticed that when I am running the "Whistler Control" program, the P-25 frequencies show that they are "muted". Not locked out but muted. I had tried to find what would do that in the radio and the program but to no avail. If anyone has any idea what could help me out, I would be forever in your debt. Thank you.

If you stick with a scanner (ancient technology) you can only listen to one channel at a time, vs. an SDR receiver that grabs all radio traffic and stacks the calls during playback. Try listening right here, click on a + sign to create your playlist on Broadcastify Monroe County New York Live Audio Feeds or on OpenMHz . Good luck.

 

[tvengr]

If you stick with a scanner (ancient technology) you can only listen to one channel at a time, vs. an SDR receiver that grabs all radio traffic and stacks the calls during playback. Try listening right here, click on a + sign to create your playlist on Broadcastify Monroe County New York Live Audio Feeds or on OpenMHz . Good luck.

I am trying to help the OP using existing equipment. The modified file adds the ability to scan multiple sites and to select sites by turning scan lists on and off. It may also help to turn on the attenuator and to move the scanner around the room. I know the TRX scanners and simulcast sites don't get along with each other. It may be possible to find a sweet spot where the scanner works.

 

[daveo89]

If you stick with a scanner (ancient technology) you can only listen to one channel at a time, vs. an SDR receiver that grabs all radio traffic and stacks the calls during playback. Try listening right here, click on a + sign to create your playlist on Broadcastify Monroe County New York Live Audio Feeds or on OpenMHz . Good luck.

I do have a SDR system up and running. I'm in the process of learning what it can and cannot do. The reason for the scanner is to be able to take it in to the field with me when I do my walk-abouts. Some people like to hear the birds. I like to hear police and fire calls. I have used "Broadcastify and other apps too. Thanks for your response though. Never know when one thing might do it.

 

[daveo89]

Give this file a try. I moved the conventional frequencies in scan list 16 to scan list 17. The Monroe County trunked system has been separated from the conventional frequencies. Scan lists 11 & 12 use the East site. Scan lists 13 & 14 use the West site. Scan lists 15 & 16 use the South site. When you load the file, only the Monroe County trunked system will be scanning with all 3 sites. I turned off Digital AGC on the 3 Monroe County trunked systems. The AGC action can increase garbled audio problems with simulcast sites. Scan lists as follows:

SCAN LISTS:
11. MonCo East Fire
12. MonCo East PD
13. MonCo West Fire
14. MonCo West PD
15. MonCo South Fire
16. MonCo South PD

Thanks for taking the time to break these up for me. I loaded the file in to the radio last night. It's been running since 6 this morning but unfortunately, nothing has come over the radio. As I've mentioned, I am always very thankful for someone trying to help me out. You never know when that one thing will work.

 

[daveo89]

You're importing from the database, yes?

While my Pro-668 is hundreds of miles away in a different state, I *do* still have the programming software on my PC. Here are step-by-step instructions:

- Select "Library Import" from tabs at top.
- Chose "Preferred" from "Select Import Type" drop-down.
- Data Type "Counties/Cities" and pick New York. Click Next.
- Pick Monroe from county/city list, then "Trunked Systems". Click Next.
- Check box next to "Monroe/Ontario Counties". Click Sites.
- Unselect the check boxes for any site you do NOT want to import.
- At this point you can either click "Talkgroups" if you want to limit which TGs are imported, or just click "Import Selected Channels" (the default is all TGs).
- Click "Import Channels".

Yes, I am importing from the database. I also have imported from the files on the radio at time when I was in the field. That was from another county and it was a P-25 Phase 1 system.

 

[tvengr]

Thanks for taking the time to break these up for me. I loaded the file in to the radio last night. It's been running since 6 this morning but unfortunately, nothing has come over the radio. As I've mentioned, I am always very thankful for someone trying to help me out. You never know when that one thing will work.

It was worth a try to see if you could receive another site. It sounds like you will need a Uniden SDS100 handheld to receive the Monroe County system. The SDS100 handheld and SDS200 base/mobile are the only scanners specifically designed to receive simulcast sites. They are the only ones which will receive my local simulcast systems. if you get the sds100, I would be happy to help with the programming.

 

[Whistler_Support]

I'm in Rochester NY, Monroe County and the public safety went to the P-25 phases 2 system. Since then and with much downloading and tinkering with my radio, TRX-1, I am at a brick wall. I can receive all the conventional channels with out any problem. But nothing on the P-25. I also noticed that when I am running the "Whistler Control" program, the P-25 frequencies show that they are "muted". Not locked out but muted. I had tried to find what would do that in the radio and the program but to no avail. If anyone has any idea what could help me out, I would be forever in your debt. Thank you.

davo89, when dealing with Simulcast, enabling Global Attenuation only on the Simulcast System should limit the number of towers that your radio will receive when scanning this system and will not alter the reception when scanning objects outside of this system.