Orange County CCCS P25 Update

tsalmrsystemtech

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The OCSD background check is so difficult to pass. Not sure why but its always been like that way. If you have a blemish from 20 yrs ago they will hold it against you. I think this is why its hard to find and maintain good help due to everyone is not perfect. Maybe times have changed a bit with the new sheriff but who knows even after trying to find good help after COVID. All good help and talented people are already working. Also, some of these positions do not pay that well and with the cost of inflation and rent and to live in OC its very difficult if you are not collecting a decent salary. Any of the level II and III positions are filled from within so people would need to take the entry level jobs. Plus, anybody with any tech skills are already probably working in tech somewhere else making a good living and can't take that pay cut during these challenging times with inflation.
 

APX6k

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Good morning Group,

Lots of testing heard this morning on two unidentified CCCS talkgroups. Heard TG 3806 on South cell and TG 3800 on Countywide; all repeated verbal "radio comm checks" and 10 counts with RID 5939591. I heard 3806 approximately two weeks ago on Southwest cell as well, same sort of testing going on. Anyone have any further info on this? Thank you!
 

Randyk4661

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Good morning Group,

Lots of testing heard this morning on two unidentified CCCS talkgroups. Heard TG 3806 on South cell and TG 3800 on Countywide; all repeated verbal "radio comm checks" and 10 counts with RID 5939591. I heard 3806 approximately two weeks ago on Southwest cell as well, same sort of testing going on. Anyone have any further info on this? Thank you!
The 3800 series of talkgroups seem to be colleges or school districts
Maybe a school district or college is joining the OC system?
Something to watch.
 

kearthfan101

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3800, 3802, 3804, 3806, 3808, 3810 are talkgroups specifically reserved for testing purposes. 3812 and beyond are the colleges and school districts.
 

Randyk4661

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That's good to know.
You might want to submit this to the database so that a year from now we aren't discussing this again. :)
 

Remscan

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Was there a post about OCFA rebanding and possibly re-programming radios again ?
If so, I would think that this would mean Sheriff radios would also need reprogramming.
I've been talking with local news TV station about talking to Public safety about not encrypting Dispatch channels.

Stations up north have talked to their Public safety (PD/FD) about Dispatch in the Clear since personal info is typically not broadcast on those channels.
Hoping...
 

Anderegg

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A radio REPROGRAMMED to TRANSMIT UNENCRYPTED can still maintain its ability to RECEIVE ENCRYPTED. I listen to Marine Common System CBP comms, and most of the time the large USCG vessels and JAYHAWK are transmitting in the clear, and say "in the clear" over the air. They intercommunicate with encrypted radios of USBP agents and CBP vessels which are all transmitting encrypted back at them.

Paul
 

avascan522

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Was there a post about OCFA rebanding and possibly re-programming radios again ?
If so, I would think that this would mean Sheriff radios would also need reprogramming.
I've been talking with local news TV station about talking to Public safety about not encrypting Dispatch channels.

Stations up north have talked to their Public safety (PD/FD) about Dispatch in the Clear since personal info is typically not broadcast on those channels.
Hoping...
Couldn't hurt for a news agency(ies) to vouch for. But I imagine with OC LE being fully Ø even since the dawn of their analog SmartZone system, I doubt they would have an interest in changing something that has been common practice for so long.
 

tsalmrsystemtech

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OC has been FULL "E" since 9-11 and there is no turning back the clock for them. Now for the FIRE this is something we all have been waiting for now for three years and no movement so far. But in the past posting somebody said they are in the process of re-programming radios manually but who knows right now. They are broadcasting in the clear on broadcastify but that's it for now.

Not sure if anybody can chime in over this one. I have asked the chief several times and their PIO and they said its in the works but no release of any information lately as I think there is a Union issue with OCFA and the fire departments right now I believe. That's what I heard. But just not sure.
 

Markb

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Was there a post about OCFA rebanding and possibly re-programming radios again ?
If so, I would think that this would mean Sheriff radios would also need reprogramming.
I've been talking with local news TV station about talking to Public safety about not encrypting Dispatch channels.

Stations up north have talked to their Public safety (PD/FD) about Dispatch in the Clear since personal info is typically not broadcast on those channels.
Hoping...
Rebanding involved swapping a chunk of radio spectrum several years ago due to cellular interference. It was a one-time process.

Sheriff radios to not have the fire talkgroups, so there should be no need for reprogramming any LE radios.
 

Remscan

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If the System is reprogrammed due to rebanding, I think all radios would have to be reprogrammed or they wouldn't be part of the system.

Either way, getting Fire back would at least be a big help. Thank you all that are trying to get this back to the CLEAR.
 

Markb

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If the System is reprogrammed due to rebanding, I think all radios would have to be reprogrammed or they wouldn't be part of the system.

Just to clarify, rebanding was completed nation-wide and will never happen again. The cellular interference issue has been mitigated. Also worth noting, to my knowledge, no widespread reprogramming ever occurred during the time that OC had their old Smartzone system in service.

I agree with your thoughts on encryption, but any future reprogramming would take thousands of man-hours, money and logistical considerations. To undertake that endeavor will take a LOT of time that they probably do not have assuming decryption comes to fruition at all.

 

Remscan

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Just to clarify, rebanding was completed nation-wide and will never happen again. The cellular interference issue has been mitigated. Also worth noting, to my knowledge, no widespread reprogramming ever occurred during the time that OC had their old Smartzone system in service.

I agree with your thoughts on encryption, but any future reprogramming would take thousands of man-hours, money and logistical considerations. To undertake that endeavor will take a LOT of time that they probably do not have assuming decryption comes to fruition at all.

Understood. Thanks for the clarification.
Miss listening (via scanner) to them.. :(
 

mikkut

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Yes, SB1000 is a step in addressing this ....


This bill is up for a critical hearing with the senate appropriations committee on May 19. Besides corresponding with your local state senate member, you can comment directly to the senate appropriations committee here:


California Legislature Position Letter Portal

Creating an account is required but very easy, be sure to select SB1000 and select appropriations committee.



Stations up north have talked to their Public safety (PD/FD) about Dispatch in the Clear since personal info is typically not broadcast on those channels.
Hoping...
 

Remscan

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Yes, SB1000 is a step in addressing this ....


This bill is up for a critical hearing with the senate appropriations committee on May 19. Besides corresponding with your local state senate member, you can comment directly to the senate appropriations committee here:


California Legislature Position Letter Portal

Creating an account is required but very easy, be sure to select SB1000 and select appropriations committee.
Thank you, Thats quite helpful!!

John
 

ScanFanEd

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Yes, SB1000 is a step in addressing this ....


This bill is up for a critical hearing with the senate appropriations committee on May 19. Besides corresponding with your local state senate member, you can comment directly to the senate appropriations committee here:


California Legislature Position Letter Portal

Creating an account is required but very easy, be sure to select SB1000 and select appropriations committee.

What are the chances that this could pass? Is it possible we may see some reversing in the encryption practices??

Anyone know if OCFA is still looking to drop encryption?
 

Randyk4661

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Yes, SB1000 is a step in addressing this ....


This bill is up for a critical hearing with the senate appropriations committee on May 19. Besides corresponding with your local state senate member, you can comment directly to the senate appropriations committee here:


California Legislature Position Letter Portal

Creating an account is required but very easy, be sure to select SB1000 and select appropriations committee.

I'm glad to see this is proceeding.
Not to be a Debbie downer here but with the speed politicians work this could still take many years before we can listen again.
New systems like the CRIS is still in build mode and may be able to comply sooner than the OCCCS system that has been up and running for a few years now. Yes the OC fire departments are dropping encryption but if the law enforcement agencies have to comply depending on timing and scheduling if the bill becomes law, it might be easier to wait for when they rebuild a new radio system, 15 or 20 years from now.
I certainly hope this is not the case.
Welcome to slow motion politics.
 

Mikek

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My opinion - It may pass, but it is not going to change anything.

Agencies have the option of, upon request and for a reasonable fee, providing 'access to encrypted communications'. This seems like the path of least effort and cost, does not have to be in real-time, and there is no restriction on how difficult, or delayed the request and delivery process can be. A lot of agencies have this in place already.

Also, exempt from the bill is any encrypted channel used for tactical, undercover or any other activity that may jeopardize officer safety. That is all very subjective...

The entire text of the bill in it's current form is here.
 

tsalmrsystemtech

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May 17, 2022

Subject: Radio Encryption

Prior to stepping into my role as the Fire Chief of the Orange County Fire Authority (OCFA) in 2018, the 800MHz Governance Committee that manages the 800MHz Countywide Coordinated Communications System was completing a major upgrade on the entire radio system that included all 22,000 radios. Already, all law enforcement agencies and arson investigators throughout Orange County were utilizing encrypted radios, but a proposal was made at this time to encrypt the remaining 800MHz radios. The Orange County Fire Chiefs Association (OCFCA) voted unanimously to encrypt their remaining fire radios across the county.

Several factors contributed to this decision, including the safety of first responders at ongoing active shooting and/or terrorist incidents. From a technical standpoint, it was also initially thought that once the radios were encrypted, it would be possible to decrypt without significant difficulty if and when such a move was deemed necessary.

However, immediately following the fire service radios being encrypted, it was discovered that the process to decrypt OCFA radios would be as extensive and time consuming as it is costly and impractical. This is largely because the switch back requires hands-on technological adjustments on every single radio in the county — from fire and law enforcement to parks and recreation. Although I immediately directed the radios be decrypted, the enormity of the task and its fiscal impact soon made it apparent that a return to decrypted radio would be impossible at this time.

Fortunately, radio encryption does not impede OCFA’s mission to provide exceptional and timely emergency support services. That said, after hearing that some members of the media and community have grown to rely on radio scanners, the OCFA did develop a workaround to gain access to appropriate emergency frequencies. Specifically, the 800MHz tactical radio channels are now broadcast to the public via internet platforms such as Radio Reference and Broadcastify. This solution (along with the fact that the VHF radio frequencies used on all vegetation fires continue to be un-encrypted) has fit the needs for many.

Moving forward, we in the OCFA will continue to work with our partner agencies to better understand encryption, including researching the possibility of one day switching back to un-encrypted radios. For now, however, if a change back is possible, it is clear it could take several years. When there are any updates or changes in this arena, we will share them as transparently and efficiently as possible.

Sincerely,

Brian Fennessy

Fire Chief
 
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