Orange County CCCS P25 Update

[Randyk4661]

SB 1000 passed and the Orange County Fire Departments are Encrypted. Makes no sense at this point. You will broadcast everything to the whole wide world but spend the time and put a plan into place to get the radio re-programmed

Politics work slowly. They have come up with a plan by January 2024. They will drag their feet doing this.
The OC fire departments have been working on this for some time and won't take as long as the law enforcement here in the county will take to clear their channels. If the governor signs this into law tomorrow (just an example) there will be a provision that will give agencies several years to complete.

Honestly I can see law enforcement putting this off until OC builds a new radio system in 20 years.
The cost of planning an implementing this is beyond many city budgets at this time.

As the old saying goes,

It sounded good on paper, but...

 

[marcotor]

Politics work slowly. They have come up with a plan by January 2024. They will drag their feet doing this.

I wonder if anyone here has actually read the text. There are many ways for this to happen, and I would wager reprogramming radios will be the last option for any agency. Path of least resistance is to plop some hardware, provide an "official feed", and be done with it.

 

[SYZ1165]

I wonder if anyone here has actually read the text. There are many ways for this to happen, and I would wager reprogramming radios will be the last option for any agency. Path of least resistance is to plop some hardware, provide an "official feed", and be done with it.

I have been monitoring and calling my assembly person and state senators about SB 1000 since first hearing about it and now it’s going to committee for hearings on August 11 I hope something comes of this because this is ridiculous I am from the bay area and encryption is trying to take over here it just doesn’t make any sense why they want to encrypt everything in Orange County and another counties and not just have the tactical and swat channels encrypted they don’t want any transparency and they claim that it puts officers in danger of things channels are not encrypted and I’m still waiting for them to show statistics on it’s more dangerous for officers in the field if radio communications are not encrypted and I’m still waiting for them to show when I was a bust someone besides whatever the person has stolen or guns I want to see the show the Scanner Radio‘s that they supposedly are using to listen to the officers this is a bunch of BS and I’m going to keep on calling the state senators and representatives and following this SB 1000 to the end like I said it should be no reason for full encryption unless it’s tactical and swatch channels every day ordinary dispatch channel should be kept in the clear just going around pulling people over or rescuing cats from trees that should not be encrypted

 

[AM909]

I have been monitoring and calling my assembly person ... [another couple hundred words without a sentence-ending punctuation mark]

If you want people to read what you write, you might want to find the "." key (please).

 

[SYZ1165]

If you want people to read what you write, you might want to find the "." key (please).

I am sorry if I didn’t post correctly, I do not post a lot but I am passionate about this subject about encryption, so going forward what do I need to do to as you say allow people to read what I write any help is appreciate it thanks

 

[AM909]

I am sorry if I didn’t post correctly, I do not post a lot but I am passionate about this subject about encryption, so going forward what do I need to do to as you say allow people to read what I write any help is appreciate it thanks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuation

 

[SYZ1165]

If you want people to read what you write, you might want to find the "." key (please).

I know this is no excuse, I am visually impaired and I do most of my writing by dictation. So I do have a tendency to ramble on when it comes to something as important as radio encryption, again I apologize.

 

[KevinC]

I know this is no excuse, I am visually impaired and I do most of my writing by dictation. So I do have a tendency to ramble on when it comes to something as important as radio encryption, again I apologize.

No need to apologize. Some people just feel so big behind a keyboard.

 

[redneckcellphone]

Today i heard 2 calls on the Care ambulance frequencies mention 10 foxtrot. I checked the database but see nothing on that frequency. One of the calls an ambulance was told after to switch to 5 echo.

 

[Randyk4661]

Today i heard 2 calls on the Care ambulance frequencies mention 10 foxtrot. I checked the database but see nothing on that frequency. One of the calls an ambulance was told after to switch to 5 echo.

If I recall, the zone 10 in the radios are the Tan channels.
Can anyone confirm?

 

[Mikek]

Yes - 10F (aka TAN-CAT) is a standalone repeater on Catalina Island. Typically used for south OC beaches that don't get great trunked coverage.

 

[Jimulations]

I’ve waited years to post because I didn’t have anything of substance to contribute. Admittedly, I haven’t been through every single page on this thread, so if this has already been brought up, please accept my apologies.

I am 100% committed to advocating OCFA / OCCC to reverse its decision regarding encryption of OCFA. If you feel as strongly as I do and are local to OC, please reach out to me.

Regarding decryption:

“The…approved rate for radio reprogramming is $50/each radio. However, there are at least two significant complicating factors:

1. The encrypted status of a talkgroup must be the same across the fleet. Once the reprogramming process is started, every radio that utilizes that talkgroup must be reprogrammed before usage can resume. This would create significant logistical problems for any agency’s primary Green talkgroup. It is not insurmountable, but difficult. One scenario would be similar to when the CCCS system was upgraded to Project 25, and we placed “future” talkgroups in a separate zone. This enabled users to quickly move to a “new” talkgroup all at once, but it also required a subsequent reprogram of every radio to delete the “old” programming.

2. Mutual aid sharing: Across our system agency specific channels such as Green are shared in special templates for K-9, SWAT, and command post. Some member cities also share with their neighboring cities, or across disciplines including Fire and Lifeguard. Effectively, changing the encryption status of only one talkgroup for one city exponentially grows in difficulty and scope due to the number of radios affected.”

 

[smichaelhenny]

Absolutely for decryption and have lived in Orange County since 1989.

 

[tsalmrsystemtech]

I’ve waited years to post because I didn’t have anything of substance to contribute. Admittedly, I haven’t been through every single page on this thread, so if this has already been brought up, please accept my apologies.

I am 100% committed to advocating OCFA / OCCC to reverse its decision regarding encryption of OCFA. If you feel as strongly as I do and are local to OC, please reach out to me.

Regarding decryption:

“The…approved rate for radio reprogramming is $50/each radio. However, there are at least two significant complicating factors:

1. The encrypted status of a talkgroup must be the same across the fleet. Once the reprogramming process is started, every radio that utilizes that talkgroup must be reprogrammed before usage can resume. This would create significant logistical problems for any agency’s primary Green talkgroup. It is not insurmountable, but difficult. One scenario would be similar to when the CCCS system was upgraded to Project 25, and we placed “future” talkgroups in a separate zone. This enabled users to quickly move to a “new” talkgroup all at once, but it also required a subsequent reprogram of every radio to delete the “old” programming.

2. Mutual aid sharing: Across our system agency specific channels such as Green are shared in special templates for K-9, SWAT, and command post. Some member cities also share with their neighboring cities, or across disciplines including Fire and Lifeguard. Effectively, changing the encryption status of only one talkgroup for one city exponentially grows in difficulty and scope due to the number of radios affected.”

All The County of Orange needs to do is make sure each radio and the infrastructure on the backend of the LMR system is enabled for OTAP and OTAR. Not sure why this is not being used or its already being used and the general public does not know. Most likely they are using OTAP and OTAR.

The County is most likely using the excuse of having to hand touch each radio and its a budget thing. It's not. With WiFi in all county buildings and fire stations Motorola Radio Management can be used effectively to OTAP and OTAR. The technology is here and has been here for a long time now. But I like how you are a 100 percent commited to advocate for OCFA. A few of some people have been fighting this over the past three years now. It's just push back at this point.

 

[Jimulations]

some people have been fighting this over the past three years now

Can we organize our community together and coordinate our efforts? The best way to show strength is in numbers. Instead of whining about encryption on a message board, let’s do something about it!

 

[tsalmrsystemtech]

Can we organize our community together and coordinate our efforts? The best way to show strength is in numbers. Instead of whining about encryption on a message board, let’s do something about it!

Trust me the dog has been beaten enough. If you look back in several posts backwards there has been several emails and documents from the OCFA Fire Chief about the encryption situation. I am pretty sure at this point nothing can be done unless The County of Orange makes the changes moving forward. I am pretty sure at this point we should not hold our breathe. Its been over three years now. Not sure what else to say at this point. I know mass people in numbers are great but in this case the decision is with OCSD. I am pretty sure The Orange County Fire Chiefs have already made their decision unless something in the last three years have changed for the better. So I feel you.

 

[monitor142]

Orange County Sheriff's Communications & Technology does have OTAR and OTAP in use and can batch reprogram radios over the air. The Wi-Fi capabilities have not been deployed with RM with any agency that I'm aware of. All encryption on the system is strapped in the current codeplugs and I don't ever see that changing. It would be a large undertaking but the only way to swing it would be to deploy a new template with double the zones (encrypted and clear) to all affected disciplines as noted in message #652. Once all radios have the new template, then the physical switch would take place to the clear zones and ultimately another OTAP with the old encrypted zones removed. It can be done but it takes a long time along with the labor and time to manage it. The OTAP capability is limited by each cell in order to prioritize voice over data. At the end of the day it was designed to be a voice radio system as the priority, data is limited for good reason.

 

[marcotor]

At the end of the day it was designed to be a voice radio system as the priority, data is limited for good reason.

But.. but.. but.. don't you read all the Multi-Site Trunking System "experts" who post here? All they have to do is FLIP A SWITCH! And use non- existent Wi-Fi! And if they don't, then something dark and nefarious is going on

 

[Jimulations]

Everyone got put on notice today.

The “Orange County Fire Chief’s Association” is probably not a Joint Powers Authority like OCFA. The Sheriff’s Department released a document stating the OC Fire Chief’s Association was the one that made the decision to encrypt fire radio’s in OC. Here’s my question: If the OC Fire Chiefs Association made the decision and it’s not a JPA, when did the public get an opportunity to oppose?

The decision probably wasn’t made by your elected officials. You’re just accepting that the decision was legal.

Where is the purported transparency? Where are the meeting agendas and minutes from the OC Fire Chief’s Association? Where was it posted that such a decision was going to be made prior to this decision happening?

My belief is that the entire decision to encrypt OCFA was made by a non governmental entity and no public input was taken. I’m not a lawyer, but I don’t think the encryption decision was made legally. I’m not looking to ASK OCFA and MetroNet to decrypt. I’m looking for people that want to help organize around a decision that was potentially illegally made in a non public closed door meeting.

Yes, I know it’s a large multi year undertaking. I’m asking for your help, not your opinion. Together we can at least try to make a difference.

 

[Mikek]

Read Section 2.2 of The Joint Agreement for the 800MHz system where it clearly defines who the decision makers are, and what their role is. OCFCA has a seat on the governance committee. There is nothing that requires public comment or open meetings. I admire your effort and desire to effect change, but candidly you won’t get anywhere with this.