Otago DMR

rocky28965

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 19, 2017
Messages
616
Location
Otago, NZ
Is Vital not the only source of DMR in Otago?
I was monitoring a frequency on Grandview Mountain from Summit Radio Solutions.
It was showing on Proscan History Loging as DMR, also had a TGID & UID
I wasnt here when it came through, but it shows 1 hit with 12 second duration.
 

rocky28965

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 19, 2017
Messages
616
Location
Otago, NZ
Not a huge response, but this is specific to my location & I may be the only one scanning in this area.
After running a custom range search on my SDS200E, I found 3 more DMR & 1 DT3 frequencies.
None of these are listed on the Wiki, so I have to guess where they may be.
To be fare the DT3 is sort of listed in the Wiki, but as another user & frequency.
All of these are single frequency, with only the DT3 having a continuous signal.
In programming these to scan I set the DT3 as MotoTRBO which works fine but are unsure what to use for the DMR.
I have initially programed them on P25 One Frequency.
It's the weekend here so won't know until next week if this works.
These new frequencies are all VHF between 163 MHz & 165 MHz.
The other known DT3 channel in this area is UHF.
 

rocky28965

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 19, 2017
Messages
616
Location
Otago, NZ
Thanks, I had been using that site to get the locations and channel names.

You are correct about the DMR programming.
I now have them as DMR One Channel.

Currently doing custom searches of this area to see how many others there are.
 

rocky28965

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 19, 2017
Messages
616
Location
Otago, NZ
Starting to get a few unlisted numbers/frequencies.
The RRF is not showing some DMR & DT3 channels that are in use.
Some that were shown before the recent format change.
 

Z-master

Newbie
Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
40
Location
Canterbury, New Zealand
It's probable they won't be unlisted, but I do notice searches can be a little weird. I'm used to PRISM database, happy to look if you provide freqs. Until the NGCC project builds start (in the next 6 months I think) then it's VERY unlikely to be P25. And when it is, it won't be that high anyway.
 

hrh17

Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2015
Messages
144
Location
.
PSN is at least 18 months away and otago would more than likely be a problem area so plenty of time for listening
 

Z-master

Newbie
Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
40
Location
Canterbury, New Zealand
hmm yes and no, PSN builds would have started well before then. The intention. I'm told from a fairly reliable source, is that the radio networks will run side-by-side while it goes through various testing (Kordia techs will do checks, then each agency will want to make sure it's suitable etc) and then their networks will turn off. Kordia has 3 (or 5 - I can't remember off the top of my head) to have the P25 stuff completed by, so there's a lot of work to do. I don't think Otago will have too much issue, once they add a few additional sites, compared to the current ESA network.
 

rocky28965

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 19, 2017
Messages
616
Location
Otago, NZ
When I started my Custom searches, I was unsure exactly where to look.
So I split them into two groups:

EE/EEX Band 162MHz – 172MHz
This found several DMR’s & a DT3 control channel.
I was able to identify them through RSM.
The Aurora Energy control channel on 165.0625MHz from Maungawera is shown on the Wiki as Delta Lines.

TD Band 414MHz – 420MHz
Several there I wasn’t able to identify, but when I look today, most are now there.
409.9500MHz is not

I’d be interested to know of any other areas I could search.
 

rocky28965

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 19, 2017
Messages
616
Location
Otago, NZ
Custom search of TD Band 414.1125MHz – 420.0000MHz @ 12.5 KHz
On Uniden SDS200E with DMR upgrade.
Using history logging on Proscan.
Looking for DT3 & DMR frequencies.
Excluded two known DT3 & one known trunking channel.

A Few interesting finds.

Two new DT3 frequencies found.
The busiest frequency shows several TG's & UID’s.
It is shows in RSM search as a NZ wide mobile.
The audible hammer tone is there, but my radio won’t decode it.
Tried it on a SDR through DSD Plus. That won’t decode it either.

The second DT3 frequency found is doesn't show any TG'S or UID's
It is not listed in RSM

Only one DMR found and is shown in RSM as a NZ wide mobile.
Can’t decode that either.

Also found several trunking control channels, audible by their distinctive tone.
Tried these on a SDR and none of them were received.
Wondering if this might be something peculiar to this radio.
 

rocky28965

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 19, 2017
Messages
616
Location
Otago, NZ
I wasnt expecting to decode the trunking, just mentioned it as my radio was showing them but they are not actually there.
There were six detected other than the known Vital control channel.
When I tried them on SDR through Unitrunker, they didn't show up on the spectrum.

Any thoughts on why the mobile channel was not being decoded.
Would it be encrypted?
 

Kazzaw

Member
Database Admin
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
339
Location
South East QLD, Australia
Encryption won't stop decoding, only voice. As an example, you'd still get activity logged. You should be able to get a source audio recording, I'm not sure how thought with SDR Trunk
 

Z-master

Newbie
Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
40
Location
Canterbury, New Zealand
The mobile frequencies you mention are most likely the repeater input freqs. If you're doing an RSM search of the TD band you mention, you shouldn't see those unless you're inside a license. Your scanner also shouldn't see them as they're around 406-411MHz or around that.. which indicates the scanners probably ignoring the search edges?

I suggest checking your search to ensure it's 412 and up, check the bandwidth is 12.5KHz, if you live near a site, you could be getting a harmonic or the receivers being overpowered. If you use an LNA, try disabling that... it will help bring in weaker signals, but it also amplifies garbage.
 

rocky28965

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 19, 2017
Messages
616
Location
Otago, NZ
We are talking about two different things here.
In the first part of post #13, I was referring to receiving trunking channels, which I wasn't looking for.
The search would stop on them for 10 seconds until I locked them out of the search.

I the second part I am referring to a DT3 frequency listed in RSM as Mobile.

Woops you got yours in while I was typing mine, in reference to Kazzaw's post
 

rocky28965

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 19, 2017
Messages
616
Location
Otago, NZ
The mobile frequencies you mention are most likely the repeater input freqs. If you're doing an RSM search of the TD band you mention, you shouldn't see those unless you're inside a license. Your scanner also shouldn't see them as they're around 406-411MHz or around that.. which indicates the scanners probably ignoring the search edges?

I suggest checking your search to ensure it's 412 and up, check the bandwidth is 12.5KHz, if you live near a site, you could be getting a harmonic or the receivers being overpowered. If you use an LNA, try disabling that... it will help bring in weaker signals, but it also amplifies garbage.

Interesting, my search is just as described in post #11.
I don't have a LNA.
Antenna used was actually an external 2 Meter whip.
I also have a discone but it's not working very well at

The frequency in question is 418.5250MHz
 
Last edited:

Ubbe

Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Messages
8,944
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
On Uniden SDS200E with DMR upgrade.

Also found several trunking control channels, audible by their distinctive tone.
Tried these on a SDR and none of them were received.
Wondering if this might be something peculiar to this radio.
As Z-master mentioned the SDS scanner are probably receiving a signal that are the result of internal mixing products, and there's a lot of them in SDS scanners. You really have to use another "proper" receiver to verify frequencies found during searches.

/Ubbe
 

Z-master

Newbie
Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
40
Location
Canterbury, New Zealand
Great video to explain, Ubbe. Now I'm (hopefully temporarily) out of the industry, I don't have access to a SigGen to show. I definitely concur, especially as the SDS is slowing down in parts of the search. While the SDRs aren't any better, really, the fact that they're not showing anything would indicate, at least to me, it's some type of 'ghost' signal.

The freq you mention isn't around that area as an active license, it's in CHCH, but it's not definitely not T3.. it's registered to Tait which is part of their test P25 network... too far away for you to be receiving, I'd have thought.. and if you are somehow receiving it, it sounds like UniTrunker is false reporting it as T3 when it's P25. The other users are in the North Island, and I believe they're all part of the Trilogy T3 network, pretty unlikely you were getting skip for those though.
 

rocky28965

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 19, 2017
Messages
616
Location
Otago, NZ
Thanks guys, I really appreciate your advice, I'm learning all the time.
I'm considering getting the DMR upgrade for my BCD996P2.
Just waiting to hear back from Scanner Master.
 
Top