PA State Police Struggle with OpenSky Issues

[soberbyker]

Wirelessly posted (Opera/9.80 (BREW; Opera Mini/6.0.3/27.2338; U; en) Presto/2.8.119 320X240 LG VN530)

There is supposed to be an announcement from Uniden come Nov 16th. However, any new models will not hit the streets until sometime after the new year, (they may be showcased at the CES show in Jan?) from what I understand in other threads here on RR.
Also, Whistler has announced that they are going to come out with some of GRE's models under new designations, and will continue to develop and market newer models in the near future. Check the GRE and Community Announcement forums here.
So, we'll just have to wait and see what new scanner models will be capable of in the coming year.

http://forums.radioreference.com/community-announcements-news/274717-whistler-group-acquires-gres-assets-manufacture-radio-shack-scanner-product-line.html

 

[RayAir]

That's too bad the PA system has so many issues. It must be poor design.

I live in Oakland County, MI and they wanted to go to OpenSky in 2002, but the roll out didn't really happen until 2009 due to issues. As of this date, the Oakland County CLEMIS radio system (OpenSky), works pretty good now.

And as a user of the system I do like the fact the radios are private.

Our radios auto log in (connectivity to the system), no pass word required. Each radio has its own IP address and radio ID. I believe its a 10 digit number (ex- 007-112-3453, first three are radio region, second three digits are agency code, last four digits are a unique number). If you log off a radio, I believe you can use your log in on up to three radios at a time.

Radios that are set up for AES encryption require a user ID and password. Non encrypted radios do not require this log in. Manual encryption is also available in the radio scroll menu. If you select this you must enter an encryption key for the call.

The radios are actually pretty cool.

I do not like the fact that I cannot listen to the system while at home. We are not allowed to bring the radios home with us.

Scene of Incident mode is pretty nifty too. We have good interop throughout the county and we can access the MPSCS statewide system through a patch channel on our radios.

 

[soberbyker]

That's too bad the PA system has so many issues. It must be poor design.

I live in Oakland County, MI and they wanted to go to OpenSky in 2002, but the roll out didn't really happen until 2009 due to issues. As of this date, the Oakland County CLEMIS radio system (OpenSky), works pretty good now.

And as a user of the system I do like the fact the radios are private.

Our radios auto log in (connectivity to the system), no pass word required. Each radio has its own IP address and radio ID. I believe its a 10 digit number (ex- 007-112-3453, first three are radio region, second three digits are agency code, last four digits are a unique number). If you log off a radio, I believe you can use your log in on up to three radios at a time.

Radios that are set up for AES encryption require a user ID and password. Non encrypted radios do not require this log in. Manual encryption is also available in the radio scroll menu. If you select this you must enter an encryption key for the call.

The radios are actually pretty cool.

I do not like the fact that I cannot listen to the system while at home. We are not allowed to bring the radios home with us.

Scene of Incident mode is pretty nifty too. We have good interop throughout the county and we can access the MPSCS statewide system through a patch channel on our radios.

So you like that they are private but see why as a radio enthusiast it kind of sucks ....

Question for you, since OpenSky is an unmonitorable system why would they have a need for some encrypted radios?

 

[RayAir]

My best guess is that it can be monitored. However, this has not been done yet like it has for unencrypted ProVoice, MotoTRBO, NXDN, etc.

Whoever developed DSD, I'm sure is capable of decoding OpenSky.
I'm sure Harris knows this because...they offer AES encryption.

You would run into reception problems I think because of the cellular phone type repeater system probably.

I know, as a user I like the privacy. I cannot listen to police or fire where I live, only where I work p/t.. We only have capability to listen to a portion of the county at work. However there are countywide and all dispatch channels in the radios. All Dispatch is a feature to alert all area agencies if an agency chooses to do so.

I have heard there is software available that can detect OpenSky packets but can't decode the voice.

As a hobbyist, yes it sucks being in the dark because all that is left on analog is mall security and some taxi cabs and other BS.

It's a double edged sword.

Hopefully some day an update will be made to DSD to decode unencrypted OpenSky.


I

 

[dmg1969]

That's too bad the PA system has so many issues. It must be poor design.

I live in Oakland County, MI and they wanted to go to OpenSky in 2002, but the roll out didn't really happen until 2009 due to issues. As of this date, the Oakland County CLEMIS radio system (OpenSky), works pretty good now.

And as a user of the system I do like the fact the radios are private.

Our radios auto log in (connectivity to the system), no pass word required. Each radio has its own IP address and radio ID. I believe its a 10 digit number (ex- 007-112-3453, first three are radio region, second three digits are agency code, last four digits are a unique number). If you log off a radio, I believe you can use your log in on up to three radios at a time.

Radios that are set up for AES encryption require a user ID and password. Non encrypted radios do not require this log in. Manual encryption is also available in the radio scroll menu. If you select this you must enter an encryption key for the call.

The radios are actually pretty cool.

I do not like the fact that I cannot listen to the system while at home. We are not allowed to bring the radios home with us.

Scene of Incident mode is pretty nifty too. We have good interop throughout the county and we can access the MPSCS statewide system through a patch channel on our radios.

It's not so much poor design as it is the wrong system for the state. The state's terrain does not lend to good coverage in the 800 MHz band. The terrain varies, but has a lot of hills and mountains, which are not friendly for propagation of 800 MHz.

Plain and simple, the state was scammed by MA/COM-Tyco (now Harris). The system was designed and then built and deployed. There were many dead spots requiring the installation of many micro-cells.

When the state dumps Open Sky, they will get a better system and it will cost less to maintain. Open Sky was a $400 million failure.


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[RayAir]

The terrain here is very flat so 800 works good in the county. Previously we had an 800 analog TRS, but we didn't get on board and used VHF up until late 2009.

I can tell you we had a lot of problems with OpenSky when Tyco and MA-Com were involved but Harris engineers actually made the system usable. Before , we had problems with background noise degrading the voice, real bad for the fire dept, it even was affected if you were running. Also had problems with echo and digital stutter. Besides from the occasional echo all problems are gone now.

I'm taking another OpenSky radio class soon so maybe I can pass some more info your way soon.

 

[One13Truck]

I finally got around to watching that video. Interesting that the county that went along with the Open Sky was the one defending it, no?

Best thing that can happen is to let PSP get what they want and go with that P25. But this is still Pennsylvania so common sense is not always at the top of the list when making decisions. Sometimes it's not even 10th or 20th on the list. Interesting to see just to our south that Maryland stayed on low band until just recently and was fine yet how much money was spent here trying to fix something that was doomed to fail right from the contract signing.

 

[Drachen_Fire]

I've often times thought that a statewide system using P25 conventional VHF with VHF Low Band repeater links would be the cat's tits. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work.

As far as capacity is concerned, MotoTRBO (DMR) and NexEdge (DpMR) would be perfect with those 6.25khz channels.

 

[krokus]

I've often times thought that a statewide system using P25 conventional VHF with VHF Low Band repeater links would be the cat's tits. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work.

High BER leading to voice loss, due to skip.

 

[SlipNutz15]

I started hearing talk on 154.665 P25 from the Lewistown Barracks. I know it's PSP Channel D but they're testing it as P25 Conventional Digital from the information I have.

Some of it sounds encrypted from time to time but I heard Lewistown on a VHF check state they had a good copy...

 

[soberbyker]

Today, around 9AM I'm hearing activity on 156.1500, (old PSP TAC East) sounds like a few cars working a construction zone?

 

[DisasterGuy]

OpenSky is actually a very nice cost effective system. It isn't fair to blame the platform or vendor for PA's system issues. No system would perform well statewide in PA using the limited number of sites available and their licensed frequencies.


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[krokus]

What about the other user's of the same type of system? I have heard of only one satisfied user of an OS system.

How about the cost overruns? Or the amount and length of delays?

 

[RayAir]

We're on like version 15.2 for OPT ( OpenSky) and yes the system was plagued with problems for years and had a cost over run but I am satisfied with our OpenSky system today. Every time I key the mic it goes through and 99% + of transmissions sound clear.

What I like most about using the system is the privacy.
It's our secure network for voice and data. No foamers allowed.

Only complaint I might have is its difficult to talk on your radio if your buddy is next to you with his radio turned up. There's a vocoder delay of maybe 1/4 second.

Also if you have your portable on in the car and your mobile on, when the transmissions are being received it will come over your portable a couple syllables later than your mobile.

I love OpenSky. I look forward to putting my prep in the holster every day.

 

[krokus]

What I like most about using the system is the privacy.
It's our secure network for voice and data. No foamers allowed.

Foamers?

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[bfperez]

OpenSky is actually a very nice cost effective system. It isn't fair to blame the platform or vendor for PA's system issues. No system would perform well statewide in PA using the limited number of sites available and their licensed frequencies.


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I think LV Metro and Milwaukee, to name two, would disagree that it's cost effective or reliable.

 

[soberbyker]

Foamers?

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I'm guessing Ray_Air is talking about a lot of us scanner enthusiasts .... the following is the Urban Dictionary definition, just change railroad enthusiast to scanner enthusiast.



Urban Dictionary: foamer

1. Foamer
A term railroad employees use to describe a railroad enthusiast / railfan and the railfan community at large. Most often used disparagingly.
(Engineer to conductor aboard a freight train)

"Man, we got some foamers ahead taking pictures...they need to just get a life and find something to do besides hang around the tracks all day."

2. foamer
Orignally used to describe railbuffs, it now describes anyone who gets excited about something so much that they start foaming at the mouth.

"Those geeks that play magic the gathering are foamers. They get so excited over one card that they start foaming at the mouth".

 

[rgchristy]

And Superman believes that he's the only one entitled to this information. First responders don't need status updates on fire/ems calls by those first on the scene. They can wait until the information gets relayed from trooper to PSP to 911 center to first responder, especially since the only thing the PSP and 911 dispatchers have to do at that time is relay information. And when the call is for a trooper down/injured, delay is acceptable.

And when the robbery call goes out with partial tag information, and a "foamer" just happens to be riding by at the time, sees that vehicle in question, records the tag number and calls it into 911. Oh wait, he's not entitled to that information, and isn't supposed to help, because he's a "foamer".

And amateur radio operators aren't entitled to that information because when the 911 system goes down during a disaster, they come to the aid of Public Safety. I guess they're "foamers" too, or maybe Ray_Air knows a more specific term to be used for those in amateur radio.

There are many current and former LEOs who would beg to differ with Ray_Air's assessment of who is and who is not entitled to this information. Sometimes we need to be reminded that we're all on the same team, unless of course, you're Superman.

I could go on and on, but I think you get the idea.

Stay Safe,

Rich C

I'm guessing Ray_Air is talking about a lot of us scanner enthusiasts .... the following is the Urban Dictionary definition, just change railroad enthusiast to scanner enthusiast.



Urban Dictionary: foamer

 

[RayAir]

I don't think it's a good idea to have amateurs looking for BOL vehicles or persons.

I know, I used to listen to my area police and fire at one time. It was sometimes "entertaining" ( especially when everything was analog), but times have changed. Digital has made things more private.

Hopefully PA gets things worked out.


I don't think the public has an entitled right to have access to information of a law enforcement nature. These days that needs to be private.

If it were up to me, I'd put a layer of AES192 on all our channels, not just the countywide TAC channels used for surveillance.

 

[tsalmrsystemtech]

OpenSky is horrible. Las Vegas had to learn a very valuable lesson that cost them hundreds of millions of dollars. They ditched their OpenSky network and are switching over to Motorola P25 Phase II X2-TDMA to clean up Harris mess they created in Sin City.

When was the last time a city or a county signed a new deal to go to OpenSky??