PA State Police Struggle with OpenSky Issues

[krokus]

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.973 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

4. If the radio has a scanning option, then it would include in the data burst - "I also want to hear TalkGropus AAA, BBB, etc"

If so, this is an OpenSky behavior, which is not common to most/any other trunked systems. Motorola Smartzone systems require a user have a TG selected, on that tower, before that TG is carried. For clarification, selected means the primary TG on that radio. Any TG that isn't selected by an authorized user is not available for scanning.

 

[HM1529]

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.973 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

4. If the radio has a scanning option, then it would include in the data burst - "I also want to hear TalkGropus AAA, BBB, etc"

If so, this is an OpenSky behavior, which is not common to most/any other trunked systems. Motorola Smartzone systems require a user have a TG selected, on that tower, before that TG is carried. For clarification, selected means the primary TG on that radio. Any TG that isn't selected by an authorized user is not available for scanning.

For PA-STARNET, the scan feature will reliably scan three talkgroups. You'll get the talkgroup your radio is parked on and whatever you have set for P1 and P2. All talkgroups within a profile are scanned. However, unless the talkgroup is one of the three mentioned above, you may not hear any traffic if your radio is the only radio monitoring that talkgroup in an area. If the only people talking on a talkgroup are affiliated to towers other than the one you're affiliated with and that talkgroup is not in the priority scan rotation, you won't hear anything. If the users of other talkgroups in your profile (other than the designated P1, P2, and knob setting) are affiliated with the same tower as you, you will hear traffic on whatever talkgroup they are using. This is how it was explained to me recently.

The above only applies provided that the talkgroups in question are not limited by a geographic restriction. For instance, my ageny uses several "regional" talkgroups and statewide talkgroups. The regional talkgroups are restricted to, generally, a geographical area corresponding to our regional office boundaries. Even if my radio is parked on my home office talkgroup (or it is set as P1 or P2), the radio won't scan it if the talkgroup is limited at the system administrator level from being called to towers in a certain part of the state where I may have traveled. In fact, once you're out of the "footprint" for that talkgroup, the radio will just beep when you PTT. One thing I discovered that I did not like is that you do not know you're out of the talkgroup coverage area unless you try to PTT and it doesn't work. One could assume that of you're out of a given region, you should switch channels, but I was surprised that the radio wouldn't just tell you there was no more authorized connectivity. Since something like this is agency specific, it's up to the agency itself to educate users on the geographic availability of certain talkgroups, I suppose.

I say generally, above, because OPRS has the regional restrictions for our agency talkgroups tied to county level coverage. So, the talkgroups will be carried on any tower that has even the slimmest of coverage in a designated county, even if that tower is really on a mountain top two counties away. This, in essence, makes the true footprint of the regional talkgroup bigger than the actual agency region itself. OPRS can restrict talkgroups geographically down to individual tower sites based on agency needs/desires. I was just told recently that, for one agency, they have a regionally restricted talkgroup for western PA that is also carried on a tower site in Dauphin County so folks in Harrisburg can monitor the traffic, as needed, to fit agency needs.

One thing I find puzzling is that the radios do not store the P1 and P2 settings when they are turned off. So, you essentially have to reset the P1 and P2 every time you want to scan if the radio has been turned off and back on.

 

[talviar]

Further compounding the scan dilemma is that other vendors let you tie "selected channel" to either P1 or P2 priority. Opensky doesn't
So while you can scan up to 3 channels the selected channel (which is your TX channel) may get trumped by P1 or P2 scan priority while trying to receive a message. . . . . . Especially annoying on the mobiles where turning scan on/off isn't a simple button perss. . . . .

 

[HM1529]

Further compounding the scan dilemma is that other vendors let you tie "selected channel" to either P1 or P2 priority. Opensky doesn't
So while you can scan up to 3 channels the selected channel (which is your TX channel) may get trumped by P1 or P2 scan priority while trying to receive a message. . . . . . Especially annoying on the mobiles where turning scan on/off isn't a simple button perss. . . . .

I still can't figure out why you would have a mobile radio without a quick one button scan on/off. Nothing like having to scroll through menus every time you turn the radio on to get the thing into scan. Serious design flaw if you ask me. Can the ABC buttons be customized to be a scan on/off option? Ours are not programmed. Locally, some PSP stations (maybe all?) seem to have the ABC buttons programmed as a quick channel select (i.e. press A to get to their interop channel to a county comm center).

 

[talviar]

Here is how the ABC is programmed
select the channel you want as quick. . . .
Push and hold until it beeps (or changes colors) or you get tired of pressing (can't remember if the feedback is good. . . . ) and that channel is set.
C can't be changed anymore as that toggles between trunking and conventional operation. . . .

 

[W3DMV]

I was in a local restaurant yesterday for breakfast when four state troopers came in for
chow. Noticed that none of them were packing hand-helds. Asked where their radio's were
and the response was "They don't work". Sad state of affairs.
Perhaps someday the functionally can be improved so they have reliable communications.
They sure deserve something better than the present configuration...

 

[SurgePGH]

More often seen on I-79, basically it's a trap setup where they line up one or more trooper cars on an on-ramp, and a dummy vehicle or chopper is positioned down the road measuring speed and spotting other violations. Dummy vehicle spots a violator and radios to the next car in line. "White car, 88.6 left lane, passing red car doing 75.6." They will decide to go after one or both.

The best example I recall was I-79 south right at Carnegie where they position 5 cars on the on-ramp and have a 'beat-up' pickup truck on the overpass ahead of the exit appearing to be broken down or abandoned.
Related article: I-79 Speed Trap Catches More Than 100 At 80 MPH Plus - Pittsburgh News Story - WTAE Pittsburgh

I'm not sure if that's the official name of the program, but I do recall seeing that name mentioned on the news. I cannot locate an article at this time.

Operation Caterpiller is when they use multiple PSP units running radar at various intervals. The idea is that once the speeder gets by the first radar unit they feel safe and increase their speed. Get the vehicle back up to speed and they encounter another radar unit within a short distance. They use anywhere from 2 to 4 units in this manner when they use it.

 

[voxiso]

I do not think I have ever heard of a success story when it comes to OpenSky

 

[SurgePGH]

Is that a VASCAR trap, or were they using radar?

GTO_04

From the troop cars they run radar OR they will pace the target using the cruisers speedometer. When the air units are up the use the Robic style stopwatches to time the vehicles point to point.

 

[SurgePGH]

Further compounding the scan dilemma is that other vendors let you tie "selected channel" to either P1 or P2 priority. Opensky doesn't
So while you can scan up to 3 channels the selected channel (which is your TX channel) may get trumped by P1 or P2 scan priority while trying to receive a message. . . . . . Especially annoying on the mobiles where turning scan on/off isn't a simple button perss. . . . .

Shouldn't you be working? Long time no see!

 

[kirkwoodcr]

Operation Caterpiller is when they use multiple PSP units running radar at various intervals. The idea is that once the speeder gets by the first radar unit they feel safe and increase their speed. Get the vehicle back up to speed and they encounter another radar unit within a short distance. They use anywhere from 2 to 4 units in this manner when they use it.

Ok, thanks for the claification. They also do that on I-79.

 

[talviar]

Shouldn't you be working? Long time no see!

Yep. posted that one from work. . . . don't u have cameras to break? oops fix?

 

[ocguard]

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.973 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)



For PA-STARNET, the scan feature will reliably scan three talkgroups. You'll get the talkgroup your radio is parked on and whatever you have set for P1 and P2. All talkgroups within a profile are scanned. However, unless the talkgroup is one of the three mentioned above, you may not hear any traffic if your radio is the only radio monitoring that talkgroup in an area. If the only people talking on a talkgroup are affiliated to towers other than the one you're affiliated with and that talkgroup is not in the priority scan rotation, you won't hear anything. If the users of other talkgroups in your profile (other than the designated P1, P2, and knob setting) are affiliated with the same tower as you, you will hear traffic on whatever talkgroup they are using. This is how it was explained to me recently.

The above only applies provided that the talkgroups in question are not limited by a geographic restriction. For instance, my ageny uses several "regional" talkgroups and statewide talkgroups. The regional talkgroups are restricted to, generally, a geographical area corresponding to our regional office boundaries. Even if my radio is parked on my home office talkgroup (or it is set as P1 or P2), the radio won't scan it if the talkgroup is limited at the system administrator level from being called to towers in a certain part of the state where I may have traveled. In fact, once you're out of the "footprint" for that talkgroup, the radio will just beep when you PTT. One thing I discovered that I did not like is that you do not know you're out of the talkgroup coverage area unless you try to PTT and it doesn't work. One could assume that of you're out of a given region, you should switch channels, but I was surprised that the radio wouldn't just tell you there was no more authorized connectivity. Since something like this is agency specific, it's up to the agency itself to educate users on the geographic availability of certain talkgroups, I suppose.

I say generally, above, because OPRS has the regional restrictions for our agency talkgroups tied to county level coverage. So, the talkgroups will be carried on any tower that has even the slimmest of coverage in a designated county, even if that tower is really on a mountain top two counties away. This, in essence, makes the true footprint of the regional talkgroup bigger than the actual agency region itself. OPRS can restrict talkgroups geographically down to individual tower sites based on agency needs/desires. I was just told recently that, for one agency, they have a regionally restricted talkgroup for western PA that is also carried on a tower site in Dauphin County so folks in Harrisburg can monitor the traffic, as needed, to fit agency needs.

One thing I find puzzling is that the radios do not store the P1 and P2 settings when they are turned off. So, you essentially have to reset the P1 and P2 every time you want to scan if the radio has been turned off and back on.

Without prying too much into which agency you are employed by, if the talk group your agency uses regularly is limited to the geographic footprint of your agency's service area, is there a wide-area talk group you could switch to in the event you were outside of your agency's area, still within coverage of the system overall, and had an emergency? In other words, is there a "state-wide, all-agency emergency call" talk group? If so, who monitors it? Also, does your radio have an emergency call feature?

 

[HM1529]

Without prying too much into which agency you are employed by, if the talk group your agency uses regularly is limited to the geographic footprint of your agency's service area, is there a wide-area talk group you could switch to in the event you were outside of your agency's area, still within coverage of the system overall, and had an emergency? In other words, is there a "state-wide, all-agency emergency call" talk group? If so, who monitors it? Also, does your radio have an emergency call feature?

OPRS does no enable emergency buttons on agency radios if that agency doe not have a 24 hr monitor on the radios. So, PSP would have active emergency buttons. Many other agencies will not.

My agency does have a couple of statewide talkgroups for talking between regions or for use when you go outside your own region. Based on the way the towers are selected by OPRS to ensure talkgroup coverage within a given region, there is plenty of buffer area outside the normal regional boundary to ensure normal comms (outside of traveling to another region in which case you go to a statewide talkgroup or another regional talkgroup).

Presently, there is no a single statewide common talkgroup that is easy to access. There are three shared profiles common to all agencies. There is a statewide hailing talkgroup in two of those profiles called "COMMON". There is some discussion about moving that talkgroup into all user profiles statewide as an interagency hailing channel. Some agencies seem resistant initially, but this is something that is just now starting to be discussed. The thinking is that since you cannot scan across profiles, having this common talkgroup buried in the interop profiles prevents its use without prearrangement. If the common talkgroup were moved into primary profiles, it would be heard and usable on the fly and when comms were established, users could move to one of the interop profiles if they needed extended communications.

 

[wv_mountaineer]

Just a question

I live in Pa. and I don't keep up much with this OpenSky. Can someone tell me if this system runs from the Sprint / Nextel system (towers)? Or this this is onw stand along system and Harris had to install equipment onto towers throughout the state?
The reason I am asking is I was at a Sprint store on Saturday and got into a conversation with the manager who threw this at me. He said something about Sprint updating all of it equipment in the state of Pa. under some kind of federal plan or state plan because of it's radio system by 2013. And that IDEN phones on the Sprint / Nextel system will be working until 2015 and then they will be obsolete. Than means on more IDEN phones will be working on there system. So I am just curious if the states system falls or fails under Sprint towers and equipment?

 

[brey1234]

Psp commissioner abt open sky

Check this out--in Windows media player--go to 23:50, listen to the question and the reply by PSP Commissioner
State Police/Homeland Security
Watch | Listen
The Senate Appropriations Committee held a hearing on the Pennsylvania State Police (PSP) and Homeland Security with State Police Commissioner Frank Noonan and staff. Topics discussed during the hearing included: actual complement versus authorized complement of state troopers; potential consolidation of PSP barracks; the impact of the growth of Marcellus Shale drilling operations; liquor control enforcement; and efforts to fill anticipated vacancies created by retirements.

Also discussed were:

•Increased incidents of assaults on police officers and troopers.
•Lawsuits involving troopers' malfeasance.
•PSP service as a primary police force for municipalities.
•Update on the statewide 800-megahertz radio system.
•Law enforcement operations in casinos.
•Operations at dispatching centers and backlogs in DNA and other forensic testing.
•Integration of Homeland Security into the PSP.
•Amber Alerts and other child welfare and safety initiatives, and trends in gangs and drugs.

 

[krokus]

I think this is about rebanding, and moving the Nextel signals into their purchased allocation. The other option would be installing 4G coverage.

 

[olddirtret]

Pennsylvania's top cops on law enforcement in Poconos

Read the interview with the PSP Commissioner & Deputy Commissioner of Operations in the
Pocono Record newspaper.

Pennsylvania's top cops on law enforcement in Poconos | PoconoRecord.com

I thought it was quite interesting about the radio system and the central dispatch centers.

Some of us still remember the old low band radio system for PSP.

 

[HM1529]

Bob, I think you missed the link itself in your post.

Pennsylvania Senate Republicans

Also, closing consolidated dispatch? That's what it said in the above referenced Pocono Record article. Also covered in the audio from the budget hearing....

Fascinating...shut em down before you finish building them.

 

[tsarver]

Identifiers

If the state does wind up removing the VHF mobiles from the troop cars, my guess is that you'd see a lot of troopers heading over to eBay to find inexpensive portables they can use to stay in touch locally. Of course chances are pretty good those portables would either be modified ham gear, junk from China, or non-narrowband compliant. Definitely not a good solution, but who in good conscience could blame the troopers if they did just that?

That is a great idea for all public safety providers not just police but what about getting identifiers on the radios, not to mention the misc. general FCC legalities behind it. I generally disagree with the absolute need for identifiers, do we really have a need for it? I personally believe that having an FCC license(either make a special one for public safety or just use amateur) should be a requirement for everyone involved with public safety.