Plano,Allen,Wylie,Murphy P25 Phase II

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oldno7

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Have all the talk groups gone to P25 Phase II ? I live in Richardson and haven't heard much police, fire or ems lately. I have a Home Patrol and do the database updates regularly. I don't know any people personally who are in to the scanning hobby so sometimes it's kind of hard to keep up.
 

Russell

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No. While PAWM is Phase II capable, no Phase II talkgroups have ever been heard - they're all Phase I. It is also my understanding that none of the subscriber units (mobiles/portables) are Phase II capable.

The system broadcasts that it is Phase II capable and also advertises Phase I (1 slot) and Phase II (2 slot) band plans.

Russell
 
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Ensnared

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Richardson, Phase I

Have all the talk groups gone to P25 Phase II ? I live in Richardson and haven't heard much police, fire or ems lately. I have a Home Patrol and do the database updates regularly. I don't know any people personally who are in to the scanning hobby so sometimes it's kind of hard to keep up.

Well, I don't recall whether I heard them the last time I was in the area. From what I am seeing on the RR DB, they are still using Phase I P25 as indicated by the "D" in the mode column. Hence, you should be able to hear them unless, like you said, they have migrated to Phase II. Typically, the DFW keeps the DB pretty accurate.

I don't how the HP works regarding control channels. Generally speaking, do you have to load all of the system frequencies to make a system work or can you get the radio to work by loading the red and blue frequencies (CC & AC)? If you have a partial loading of the system frequencies, it might help to load them all. I say this because this is how my radio works, PSR 500.

You indicated that you are hearing some of the traffic. It is very possible they are using cell phone and/or MDT's to communicate. As an example, Round Rock tends to use cell phones a great deal of the time.

I would also try to see if you are picking up other digital transmission and/or analog systems in the your area. Sometimes, HP needs to be adjusted to reach maximum performance.
 

Russell

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Try turning the squelch down as far as possible and see if that improves your reception. For a test, HOLD on the PAWM system and set the squelch to zero. Let us know what happens.
 

Ensnared

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Antenna

Have all the talk groups gone to P25 Phase II ? I live in Richardson and haven't heard much police, fire or ems lately. I have a Home Patrol and do the database updates regularly. I don't know any people personally who are in to the scanning hobby so sometimes it's kind of hard to keep up.

Since I don't much about Uniden HP sensitivity, it might be helpful to try listening in different environments to see what happens. I don't know if you are listening at home, in a vehicle, in an apartment or at work. Furthermore, it might be helpful to know if you are using an outside antenna if mobile. How far are you from the transmitting tower(s)?
 

oldno7

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Holding on the PAWM system with squelch set to zero. Stopped on Plano Police Dispatch 2 a couple of times but didn't hear anything. I'm in Richardson. City limits are contiguous with Plano city limits. In other words Richardson and Plano city limits touch, We're next door to each other. I'm using one of those little cheap-o-la mag mount scanner antennas from Scanner Master attached to an iron bed rail sitting up in the window of my vaulted ceiling (highest point inside my house) Admittedly it is a compromise. I also use the Home Patrol in my truck. I have one of those Larsen tri band scanner antennas (VHF hi band/UHF/800) on a 3/8 inch NMO hole mount punched in the center of the roof of my Ford F-150. It is a much better antenna set up. I can easily pick up stations 30, 40, 50 miles away. I just haven't heard as much traffic from them lately as I think you would expect considering how close I am to them. Just checking to see if anyone knew what's up that might be a little better informed than I am. No sweat. I'll take what I can get. Thanks to all for taking the time to read and respond.
 

BenScan

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You might be between 2 or more repeaters, and the scanner isn't good enough to tell the two good signals apart. I'm having that trouble with the Uniden XT scanners in NE Tarrant county, trying to hear the new Fort Worth P25 system. So far, other than going somewhere else to listen, I haven't found any magic settings that work for my home or work scanning locations. Hopefully, Uniden will come up with a solution.
 

Ensnared

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Larsen Tri Band

Holding on the PAWM system with squelch set to zero. Stopped on Plano Police Dispatch 2 a couple of times but didn't hear anything. I'm in Richardson. City limits are contiguous with Plano city limits. In other words Richardson and Plano city limits touch, We're next door to each other. I'm using one of those little cheap-o-la mag mount scanner antennas from Scanner Master attached to an iron bed rail sitting up in the window of my vaulted ceiling (highest point inside my house) Admittedly it is a compromise. I also use the Home Patrol in my truck. I have one of those Larsen tri band scanner antennas (VHF hi band/UHF/800) on a 3/8 inch NMO hole mount punched in the center of the roof of my Ford F-150. It is a much better antenna set up. I can easily pick up stations 30, 40, 50 miles away. I just haven't heard as much traffic from them lately as I think you would expect considering how close I am to them. Just checking to see if anyone knew what's up that might be a little better informed than I am. No sweat. I'll take what I can get. Thanks to all for taking the time to read and respond.

I've not heard a this model, a Tri-band scanner antenna from Larsen. But, in my opinion, that is one of the best antenna companies around.

In the absence of radio traffic, anything can be happening I suppose. Have you searched the threads for other talks about Plano and Richardson? I see that Plano shows to be Phase II, but there is not one identified TG marked "T."

I still contend that they are using cell phones and/or MDT's. Sometimes, being too close to a tower can result in multipath issues, but I think this is inherent in GRE digital models.

So, where are you hearing more traffic, mobile or home? As a last resort, I would try to find someone in the area with a HP to compare. If you search long enough, you might find them.

I know I've found many folks in Waco with similar interests and radios that have helped me.

I hope you eventually figure this problem out. Cheers.
 

Russell

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This system is remarkably difficult to monitor. Especially if you're close by or inside the towers due to simulcast multipart issues. I locked my HP on PAWM today with the squelch at zero and heard absolutely nothing for a n hour. I had a BCD396XT right next to it picking up traffic (though it was struggling, too). I was running UniTrunker and could see the traffic but could not hear on the HP or 396 what I was seeing. Vx came up with a theory that Moto may have made some adjustments to fit into the 8K emission that may have made things more difficult as PAWM is even harder to copy than it was when first installed (markedly more difficult).

Just keep plugging away trying different things. I ended up using the stock antenna on the HP this afternoon as the outdoor antenna was too much and I hear nothing. I also use a little race stubby on the BCD396XT to get good copy inside the towers. On a recent trip I was able hear PAWM perfectly from Irving, but the closer I got the worse the decode got.

I am a fan of the Larsen 150/450/800 antenna and have three of these. This is my primary antenna when mobile. Of course, its too much antenna for PAWM while in Allen, it is a fantastic antenna for other agencies and does a great job picking up stuff at a distance. Great antenna

Dallas P25 is also proving to be a difficult system to monitor. I suspect it's just a bigger version of Plano's system and it's most likely the same crew installing and supporting it. Richardson is a very easy system to monitor. Its a 4 site simulcast Eads system. I can pick up that system perfectly especially inside the city. So they've clearly figured out the simulcast thing.

Russell
 
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Ensnared

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Weird Thought

This system is remarkably difficult to monitor. Especially if you're close by or inside the towers due to simulcast multipart issues. I locked my HP on PAWM today with the squelch at zero and heard absolutely nothing for a n hour. I had a BCD396XT right next to it picking up traffic (though it was struggling, too). I was running UniTrunker and could see the traffic but could not hear on the HP or 396 what I was seeing. Vx came up with a theory that Moto may have made some adjustments to fit into the 8K emission that may have made things more difficult as PAWM is even harder to copy than it was when first installed (markedly more difficult).

Just keep plugging away trying different things. I ended up using the stock antenna on the HP this afternoon as the outdoor antenna was too much and I hear nothing. I also use a little race stubby on the BCD396XT to get good copy inside the towers. On a recent trip I was able hear PAWM perfectly from Irving, but the closer I got the worse the decode got.

I am a fan of the Larsen 150/450/800 antenna and have three of these. This is my primary antenna when mobile. Of course, its too much antenna for PAWM while in Allen, it is a fantastic antenna for other agencies and does a great job picking up stuff at a distance. Great antenna

Dallas P25 is also proving to be a difficult system to monitor. I suspect it's just a bigger version of Plano's system and it's most likely the same crew installing and supporting it. Richardson is a very easy system to monitor. Its a 4 site simulcast Eads system. I can pick up that system perfectly especially inside the city. So they've clearly figured out the simulcast thing.

Russell

Do you think this design is intentional? If you can hear better from a distance & not locally, this is a perfect storm for those in LE who disapprove of scanner listeners. Or, do you think the powerful local signal is to increase building penetration or possibly something else? I believe there is a great divide between the installers & LE wants and needs. It is just a thought I had today. One day, I hope, there will be a scanner that receives these systems better. This is also a problem in the Austin, Texas area with GATRRS.
 

BenScan

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I am fairly certain this is a lower quality scanner issue that real Motorola radios don't experience. Honestly, I'd be happy to pay more for a scanner to make it work, rather than miss out all together.
 

twjr80

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I live just a mile away from the Plano/Richardson border near Custer/190. I can hear the PAWM system fine. Every once in awhile, the signal will drop. I can also hear the Richardson system fine.

I'd look into getting a better antenna system or try the scanner P25 settings.
 

Ensnared

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Radio Type?

I live just a mile away from the Plano/Richardson border near Custer/190. I can hear the PAWM system fine. Every once in awhile, the signal will drop. I can also hear the Richardson system fine.

I'd look into getting a better antenna system or try the scanner P25 settings.

I'm curious. What brand of digital scanner are you using?
 
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Do you think this design is intentional... this is a perfect storm for those in LE who disapprove of scanner listeners.
Short answer: No. That would be silly.

Long answer: The problem lies in the design of the scanner itself, not the system. There is a very technical discussion here which, as far as the scanner user is concerned, boils down to this: every P25 scanner on the market, whether made by Uniden or GRE, is improperly trying to demodulate a CQPSK signal as FM. All the hassle and rigamarole people have to go through with directional antennas and locations will partially mitigate the problem, but never completely solve it. Only a complete redesign of the scanner's receiver to accommodate quadrature phase shift-keyed signals (which contain AM and FM signal components) will ever completely solve so-called "P25 simulcast distortion" and even then without any receive preselection they are still susceptible to overload from cellular signals.
 
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