PSR-500 and PSR-600 Pre Release (Continued 2)

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bonus1331

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ScannersUnlimited

Just an FYI on sellers-
Bit the bullet and pre-ordered the 500 with ScannersUnlimited on Saturday.
He stated that he would be receiving 40 and I was #30 on the pre-order list.
Interestingly, he said that he would be driving over and picking up his orders on 10/18 because he is only 1 mile from GRE's US HQ.
So, if your interested in getting early, they may be the place to order.
Told me that he was charging a $50 deposit now and would charge the remainder on ship date. Also stated that he would call me when he had the radios at the store so I could decide on shipping method. (i.e. overnight, 2 day, etc.)
I've ordered antennas from them before with very good service.
 

Statevillian

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I got my 396 from Glenn and was really happy with the service. I'm #3 on the list and looking forward to the call for shipping options. Thanks for sharing the good news Dave!!!!!
 

offsite

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Had a chance to borrow a "sample" unit from a store in the area this weekend and compare it with my 996T. More meaningful would have been a 396T, but one was not available here.

This sample unit has the gray front panel and the following status:

UP Appl ver:F1.0
DSP App ver:F1.0
DSP Voc ver:F1.0

Initial impressions:

PHYSICAL

The black front panel will work better, not just aesthetically, but because the alpha keypad labels are really tiny and even harder to see on this demo unit because they are white against the gray surface. White against the "production" black panel will improve this but the letters will still be really small and potentially unreadable under adverse lighting conditions. They are not backlit.

For me, the ganged volume/squelch control knob sticks up a little too high from the top surface. This could be an issue because I had a tendency to contact it while changing antennas. Beyond changing the volume/squelch setting when this happened, there seems also to be the possibility of damaging the control by inadvertent repeated side loading. Two shorter knobs might be more reliable.

The battery system is one of the best I have seen... very easy to install and remove batteries. Different carriers are required for rechargeables vs. expendables, however, so there is always one carrier that is not installed in the unit and could be lost.

OPERATIONAL

Like the 996T I bought a year ago, the sample unit came with all V-scanner folders preprogrammed with various systems – to the extent that the available memory readout showed only 1% remaining! I hated this then and apparently I haven’t changed my opinion : ) I ended up saving the working memory to V-folder 00 (in case the techs at the store had customized the unit before they gave it to me) and then did a working memory reset to clear everything and start with a clean slate.

I found the Scanned Object concept easy to grasp conceptually. Programming, however, was not quite as intuitive as I had gotten myself all pumped up for over the last few months of waiting. The basic issue seems to be that not every operation flows in the way you might think… not every key press does what you expect it might. Also, some menus roll over from bottom to top and some don’t. But after a little touch time, I have to say this experience was nearly an order of magnitude better than my initial hands-on with the 996T.

I particularly like the ability to click “manual” and then use the horizontal / vertical arrow keys to intuitively access the scan lists / scan list objects.

[Btw, the first thing I did was chase down the “GLOB/scan lists” submenu to see if you really can alpha-tag scan lists. Well, the answer is you can, but, as far as I can tell, this has little utility except possibly as an onboard memory jogger… because the tags don’t show in any operational displays, not even when mapping an object to a scan list! Only the scan list number appears in all cases that I could find.]

Not having the scan list alpha-tag appear when an object is monitored is about the only thing I miss here vs. the 996T.

A big positive for me is digital xmissions are much more readable with this unit than with the 996T for the same antenna and external speaker used with both.

However with the supplied portable antenna, and the internal speaker, digital reception sounds somewhat tinny and shrill with this new unit. In fact, the onboard sound system (including the speaker) seems to highly accentuate the harsh end of the spectrum for all signal sources (I can’t tell if this is due to THD or just intentional spectral shaping).

Either way, once you plug in the external speaker and a good antenna, the unit is quite listenable. The only negatives remaining are (1) sound volume is quite variable from object to object, and (2) the volume control taper makes adjustment at the low end extremely sensitive, to the extent that at low settings you can sometimes unknowingly mute the sound completely while trying to set the right level. Perhaps a different taper, and/or click stops could be used so you can reproduce a low volume setting once you find it.

I also wonder about signal strength issues. I was not able to evaluate this quantitatively but I did notice fairly significant deterioration A/B’ing the supplied antenna with a more substantial one I use with my base units.

And curiously, I found when monitoring a weak signal in scan mode, if I clicked “manual” to hold on that signal, there would always be an audio dropout of some duration, and often the unit would lose the signal altogether. Clicking “scan” would reacquire it.

Finally, scanning Marine channels cannot be done together with other objects. The Marine channels break thru squelch unless it is set at max… even with “attenuation” on.

Summarizing my initial impression, I found this unit to be a keeper (once the production one is available). The main reasons for me are better listenability for digital xmissions and easier navigation to objects using the arrow keys. I also like the V-scanner concept for system backups. I would like to see sensitivity figures relative to other models soon. And hopefully a volume control less sensitive at the lower end will be used on the production units.
 
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fmon

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Offsite,

Many of us have been using both batt holders for more then 7 years with rechargeable batteries. Why would you think one (with charged batts) be easy to lose?

Regarding this "Not having the scan list alpha-tag appear when an object is monitored" Even the picture of the scanner on front page of OM shows the alpha tag. You must have had something incorrectly set.
 

rchalupajr

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Looking on GRE's website and at the OM, the scanner is going to have a dark gray face, not black.
 

rdale

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fmon said:
Regarding this "Not having the scan list alpha-tag appear when an object is monitored" Even the picture of the scanner on front page of OM shows the alpha tag.

That's the alpha tag for the object - not the scanlist. You can't really display the scanlist since objects can be part of multiple SL's... So he was correct.
 

offsite

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fmon said:
Offsite,

Many of us have been using both batt holders for more then 7 years with rechargeable batteries. Why would you think one (with charged batts) be easy to lose?

Regarding this "Not having the scan list alpha-tag appear when an object is monitored" Even the picture of the scanner on front page of OM shows the alpha tag. You must have had something incorrectly set.


fmon, I'm guessing your stuff is better organized than mine... : )

I just looked at the picture in the OM that I have here (ver 1.9) and it's showing the scan list tag as "09". I went to the place in the menu where you can change the "09" to an alpha tag of up to 16 chars and tagged all my active scan lists (i.e. "ALS" for the one where I keep my paramedic TGs) but when I hold on an object in that list it still shows "09" and not "ALS".

Also, when I am mapping a TG to that scan list, the choice shown in the menu is "09" not "ALS"... so tagging the scan lists doesn't seem as useful as I had hoped.
 
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offsite

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rc, you are right about the front panel color, of course... so, now I'm wondering if the unit I have is really the same color as the production units... in which case the alpha labels above the number keys will be *really* hard to see (at least for me they are)...

In fact, the best way I found to see them is to to look at the panel obliquely so that the panel surface appears shiny and the letters appear non-reflective (and hence higher contrast than just white on... well... gray)
 

rchalupajr

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I know what your saying. I probabaly won't get one till after the first of the year and hopefully there will be programming software out by then. I have a hard time with the button's, let alone the lettering painted on the case. :wink:
 

DaveIN

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offsite said:
And curiously, I found when monitoring a weak signal in scan mode, if I clicked “manual” to hold on that signal, there would always be an audio dropout of some duration, and often the unit would lose the signal altogether. Clicking “scan” would reacquire it.

This is a little troublesome, can you explain a little more about this?

offsite said:
Finally, scanning Marine channels cannot be done together with other objects. The Marine channels break thru squelch unless it is set at max… even with “attenuation” on.

Was it the entire range of the Marine band or just one channel?

As for the volume and control knobs, they look to be identical to the ones on the PRO-2054, 2055, and 2096. I'm sure you could use the PRO-97 knob swap suggestions in the Radio Shack forum to DIY them over.

By the way what was the squelch setting like, maybe you didn't have it set high enough? I seem to remember another GRE raidio that had a little bit looser squelch.
 
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fmon

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rdale said:
That's the alpha tag for the object - not the scanlist. You can't really display the scanlist since objects can be part of multiple SL's... So he was correct.
My goof, thanks Rob.

offsite said:
fmon, I'm guessing your stuff is better organized than mine... :
Could be, but both batt sets go with the scanner around here.

offsite said:
I just looked at the picture in the OM that I have here (ver 1.9) and it's showing the scan list tag as "09". I went to the place in the menu where you can change the "09" to an alpha tag of up to 16 chars and tagged all my active scan lists (i.e. "ALS" for the one where I keep my paramedic TGs) but when I hold on an object in that list it still shows "09" and not "ALS".

Also, when I am mapping a TG to that scan list, the choice shown in the menu is "09" not "ALS"... so tagging the scan lists doesn't seem as useful as I had hoped.
Thanks for the correction, guess this would support the need for a list 'cheat sheet'.

None the less and realizing your hands on time with scanner was limited, thanks for the preview.
 

offsite

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DaveIN said:
This is a little troublesome, can you explain a little more about this?

(1) Was it the entire range of the Marine band or just one channel?

(2) As for the volume and control knobs, they look to be identical to the ones on the PRO-2054, 2055, and 2096. I'm sure you could use the PRO-97 knob swap suggestions in the Radio Shack forum to DIY them over.

(3) By the way what was the squelch setting like, maybe you didn't have it set high enough? I seem to remember another GRE raidio that had a little bit looser squelch.

(1) (3) Marine band squelch override: I just unlocked this band again to look a little further. Using my base scanner antenna with squelch set at "max" and attenuation "on", ch 22A still overrides w/ no transmissions. L/o ch 22A and resume scanning. Ch 12/16 override with squelch about 10 degrees off max. The same override occurs with the GRE moble antenna. I feel these observations are not definitive. I cannot rule out bleed thru of other local strong signals or other local area anomalies!

Normal squelch setting with the Marine band locked out is about 90 degrees off "min" ("min" on this unit is about 30 degrees CW from straight down)

I am scrambling to get the unit back to the store, but in playing some more, I confirm there is a significant difference in reception using the base antenna (a magnetic based three segment "car roof" antenna located on a shelf inside my home vs. the one provided by GRE. I don't remember this degree of degradation with other handhelds, but again this is *very* subjective.

Also I have seen no activity on aircraft frequencies, even with the "good" antenna except occasional very weak signal on 135.1.

(2) The knobs are a secondary (long term reliability) issue... but the big one for me is the resistance taper... on the unit i have, there is waaay too much sensitivity on the low end... the smallest rotation goes from mute to louder than desired... it is very difficult to set a low volume level, and impossible to reproduce it... plus it is very easy to have volume muted when you think you have it set low but audible... : )

All this aside, I will buy one because of better digital audio readability and ease of navigating thru scan lists and their objects!


EDIT: Just prior to handing the unit off to my wife to return this morning, I took the unit to a remote area away from any structures or antennas. I set all Marine objects' attenuation to "off" and scanned with the GRE antenna and squelch set at normal (90 degrees from min). In this location there was NO OCCURRENCE of squelch override from the Marine channels, and marine xmissions were received loud and clear! My guess is perhaps there was bleed thru from cell towers or other strong sources in the orginal location.

Also, the tinny harshness of audio in internal speaker mode is not present when using a headset!

So now if they could just fix that volume control curve... LOL!
 
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offsite

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Dave,

More details on the scan to manual signal drop out:

Scanning with the GRE antenna and squelch set at normal (90 degrees CW from "min"), when a weak (scratchy) TG Object transmission is monitored, I click "manual" to hold on the signal.

A representative example is paramedic transmissions. These tend to be continuous on the order of 1 to 2 minutes in length, so they are a good source to observe this.

Mostly there is just drop out in the audio of about 0.5 to 3 seconds after "manual" is clicked, but often enough the signal drops out altogether.

When this occurs, clicking "scan" will lead to immediate reacquisition.

I've reproduced this often enough to be able to say it is not that the xmission is halted momentarily by the medics (I can hear it remains continuous on my base scanner). Rather it is almost like the scanner has to somehow reacquire the signal when switching from scan mode to hold mode and is not able to for some reason. This is just a guess of course (and very likely not a valid explanation).

I've also reproduced this in a location away from my base scanner, which seems to rule out some sort of interference issue between the two scanners.
 

DaveIN

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Glad to hear you figured out the marine band problem, but I'm still curious about the Manual acquire problem.

You mention you press manual to hold on the TG Object signal. Did you try the pause button before you returned the radio by chance? The manual does really say when holding on a TG Object you should use pause rather than manual, but you could use both.

Page 42:
"To pause the scanner on an active object so that the scanner
does not resume scanning, press the PSE (Pause) key while the
scanner is stopped on that object, and press SCAN to resume
scanning. Alternatively, you may press MAN to monitor an active
object. Although PSE and MAN both stop the scanner on the
active object, there are some small differences in how they
operate. PSE pauses the scanner but keeps the scanner in scan
mode, resulting in faster stop/start operation. MAN stops scan
mode completely, and allows you to browse the file system to
select other objects to monitor.

While the scanner is Manual Mode, you can browse through the
stored objects in your scanner and select one object to monitor.
Use the up and down keys on the 5-way pushbutton pad to scroll
through the objects assigned to the current Scan List. The left and
right keys on the 5-way pushbutton pad are used to browse up and
down through the Scan Lists, respectively. Only Scan Lists that
contain objects are shown when browsing. A quick low-high wrap
beep is played when the scanner reaches the last occupied Scan
List and wraps back to the beginning."
 

offsite

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DaveIN said:
Glad to hear you figured out the marine band problem, but I'm still curious about the Manual acquire problem.

You mention you press manual to hold on the TG Object signal. Did you try the pause button before you returned the radio by chance? The manual does really say when holding on a TG Object you should use pause rather than manual, but you could use both.

Excellent research, Dave!

I totally missed that in the manual... and unfortunately no longer have the unit... but I'd bet using "pause" rather than "manual" would fix the signal drop problem.

One more issue resolved!

So this is shaping up to be one of the best scanners to come along in quite a while, huh?
 
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kikito

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I know "hindsight is 20/20" but I kind of thought that could've been the problem when I first read about earlier, mostly because all GRE radios from the past would drop out of trunking when you press Manual.
 

DaveIN

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True, but it looks like the radio keeps looking at the control channel if you hold on a talk group object with manual or pause, while the PRO-96 drops the talk group and goes to the control channel frequency (SysID display) as soon as you press manual.
 

rdale

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You don't need a cheatsheet for the controls - as you can see in the menu it is VERY explanatory on the radio and every feature has a help associated with it in the radio. The cheatsheet reference was to remembering what all your scanlists are assigned to...
 
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