PSR-500 and PSR-600 Pre Release

[PanJurekMrJerry]

Passport, Multi-Net, and MPT would be nice.

Not only would the above SUBJECT LINE features be nice but how about the ability to Trunk in the 220 band?

 

[windigofer]

Not only would the above SUBJECT LINE features be nice but how about the ability to Trunk in the 220 band?

Unfortunately, all three are unlikely (at least for US-market radios):

1) The LTR systems are proprietary and license-encumbered, and EF Johnson has not licensed the relevant specs to any scanner manufacturer (partly because they use the unmonitorability of LTR Passport as a major selling point; LTR Multinet is largely obsolete).

Of the various permutations of LTR, LTR Multinet is the closest to being reverse-engineered by trunktracking programs (there is partial support for LTR Multinet in LTRTRUNK). However, various laws in the US make it necessary for trunktracking program makers to license the relevant technology from the companies making the trunking systems. (This is also, of note, why there are no EDACS ProVoice nor AEGIS nor iDEN-capable scanners and why it is highly unlikely there will ever be scanners that can follow these formats.)

There *is*, of note, a hack to allow monitoring of LTR Passport systems with the Pro-96 [http://www.radioreference.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57191] but it's unknown whether this will in fact work with the PSR-500; due to the quite different way that trunking is handled between the two radios, it's unlikely.

2) In the case of MPT systems, there simply is not a huge demand for it in the US. (If GRE releases a European version of its scanners, 220MHz band and MPT tracking become FAR more likely. As GRE has not yet announced plans to sell scanners in Europe, though, this is still very much a wishing-well type of thing.)

Most scanner sales are done in ITU Region 2 (the Americas and some US Pacific territories) whilst most of the usage of MPT-1327 is in Region 1 and Region 3. Whilst MPT tracking HAS been cracked by scanner hobbyists, many of those same countries that use MPT and the 220MHz band for trunked systems also have restrictions on monitoring public safety systems (which is, quite possibly, why scanner makers have so far been reluctant to include the capacity for MPT trunking natively).

Reportedly the WinRadio (which is a computer-controlled "software" radio) can monitor MPT; if GRE were to develop a radio that included other trunking formats for the European market, there would be a likelihood for an MPT-capable radio. (I would suggest to writers in Europe and Oz to tell GRE that you *do* in fact want a regionalised scanner with MPT :3) Of all these possibilities, this is the most likely to ever see come to pass, if GRE sees enough of a demand for it.

One possibility is to use a program for computer control like Trunkview [http://www.linato.net/trunkview/]--it would need PSR-500 capability added, but the PSR-500 IS computer controllable, so the possibility of control with a program does exist.

3) As an aside, the reason 220MHz is not included (and the scanning starts at 225MHz) is that the old 220MHz ham radio band is not widely used anymore (and in many parts of the US is unusable); in general, 220-225MHz has been a land mobile band using ACSSB which was used largely for in-car telephones (and which is increasingly being used for LTR Passport systems in the eastern US). Also, portions of the UHF TV band butt close to the 220MHz land mobile bands in the US.

Again, with a Euro-localised scanner, this would probably not be so much of an issue, because television and land mobile allocations and bandplans are very different in Region 1 and 3. A workable scanner would probably require customisation to the bandplans in use, though.

 

[WayneH]

Haven't we gone over the PassPort thing, or any of these, enough times? It's covered by intellectual property rights. Put it in the scanner and consider going to court and fighting the right to keep it there. No scanner manufacturer wants to do that.

LTR Multi-Net is patented. Enough said.

MPT, again, does not have a large enough market in the US yet (or ever?). These scanners are primarily aimed at the US market.

 

[n7jei]

I thought that the "old 220 MHz" ham band is now 222-225 MHz and is available to any licensed ham 'anywhere' in the USA. I know there is not enough activity in most areas, but in what "parts of the US" is it "unusable?"

220-222 MHz was reallocated to commercial use years ago, but 222-225 is still ham radio in the USA. I really LOVE the 222 ham band!

Why would an adjacent TV band have anything to do with what bands are included in a scanner? The existing 800 Mhz and new 700 MHz public safety bands are actually carved out of the UHF TV spectrum.

The UHF TV band in the USA starts at 470 MHz or higher (512 MHz) in some areas. (We have scanner bands that "butt-up" there or are usually included.)

The high VHF TV band in the USA starts above 174 MHz and ends a ways below 220 MHz. (We have scanner bands that "butt-up" there too.)

The low VHF TV band in the USA starts above 54 MHz and ends below 88 MHz. (We have scanner bands that "butt-up" there too.)

Just curious.

To keep on topic:
1. I can't wait to buy a '600 when they come out.
2. 380 MHz and 700 MHz trunking are fantastic.
3. NAC decoding is the frosting on the cake!

Unfortunately, all three are unlikely (at least for US-market radios):

<snip>

3) As an aside, the reason 220MHz is not included (and the scanning starts at 225MHz) is that the old 220MHz ham radio band is not widely used anymore (and in many parts of the US is unusable); in general, 220-225MHz has been a land mobile band using ACSSB which was used largely for in-car telephones (and which is increasingly being used for LTR Passport systems in the eastern US). Also, portions of the UHF TV band butt close to the 220MHz land mobile bands in the US.

 

[windigofer]

I thought that the "old 220 MHz" ham band is now 222-225 MHz and is available to any licensed ham 'anywhere' in the USA. I know there is not enough activity in most areas, but in what "parts of the US" is it "unusable?"

220-222 MHz was reallocated to commercial use years ago, but 222-225 is still ham radio in the USA. I really LOVE the 222 ham band!

Firstly, it should be noted that 222-225MHz (in the amateur radio bands) are included in the PSR-500.

More of the problems with amateur use in 220MHz are actually in the low end of the 220MHz band (218-220MHz) which is still secondary use (specifically to AMTS and also cannot cause interference to adjacent land mobile usage); there are actually multiple articles on how in many areas this segment of 220MHz is functionally unusable to ham radio operators near AMTS sites [http://www.arrl.org/arrlletter/01/0316/] [http://www2.arrl.org/arrlletter/02/0419/] (latter notes how usage of 219-220MHz band is essentially impossible within 80km (appx. 50 miles) of AMTS coast stations as amateur radio operators must get written permission from AMTS coast station operators and coast station operators routinely refuse) [http://www.arrl.org/announce/regulatory/pr92-257/] (noting additional procedural requirements for operation in 218-220MHz due to amateur secondary allocation), and the land-mobile users have threatened amateur radio usage of even 222-225MHz in some areas [http://www.pprs.org/gateway1.html].

My own apologies for not making this clear.

I am assuming that the writer was talking about the 174-225MHz band (minus amateur radio allocations), being a Brit (who, incidentially, has made this same request in practically all of the known forums for the PSR-500). :3

Why would an adjacent TV band have anything to do with what bands are included in a scanner? The existing 800 Mhz and new 700 MHz public safety bands are actually carved out of the UHF TV spectrum.

The UHF TV band in the USA starts at 470 MHz or higher (512 MHz) in some areas. (We have scanner bands that "butt-up" there or are usually included.)

The high VHF TV band in the USA starts above 174 MHz and ends a ways below 220 MHz. (We have scanner bands that "butt-up" there too.)

Pretty much, most scanners I've seen for the US market do not include the television bands (probably because it's not felt that there's a huge amount of interest in scanning TV audio). There are (as of right now) only a very few metro areas that have trunked or conventional systems that would share channel space with TV channels, so (in general) one doesn't see too much of this--the one exception being 700MHz systems, and supposedly those allocations will be going away soon.

One other reason that 220-222MHz is generally not included in scanners--a lot of that transmission is ACSSB, and very few scanners actually include any form of SSB at all.

As an aside, 72-76MHz band is also only rarely included in scanners, in part because most of the stuff in that band is either paging systems (technically, illegal to monitor in the States) or various systems for petroleum companies--again, in general, not seen as a huge demand.

To keep on topic:
1. I can't wait to buy a '600 when they come out.
2. 380 MHz and 700 MHz trunking are fantastic.
3. NAC decoding is the frosting on the cake!

Oh, you and me both, you and me both :3

 

[JASII]

I agree that the NAC decoding will be nice. Just for the sake of discussion, lets say that Uniden steps up their game and adds NAC decoding to the replacements for the Uniden Bearcat 396 and 996. Then what other features will the PSR-500 and PSR-600 have over the Uniden Bearcat 396 and 996?

 

[rdale]

The list of features is in the Wiki, it should be very easy for you to figure out which ones the other scanners don't have.

 

[ka3jjz]

Anyone know if the new GREs (any of them) will support control channel only and if they will need a plan, like the Unidens do? 73s Mike

 

[kikito]

Anyone know if the new GREs (any of them) will support control channel only and if they will need a plan, like the Unidens do? 73s Mike

What exactly do you mean? The current GREs already support "control channel only". And the Unidens don't need a plan on P25 systems either.

You'll have to elaborate on your questions.

 

[kikito]

Then what other features will the PSR-500 and PSR-600 have over the Uniden Bearcat 396 and 996?

For starters and mostly straight out of the wiki:

-- Object oriented memory management (Less "wasteful" memory management than the 396T when it comes to big trunked systems)
-- Virtually unlimited number of programmable talkgroups (not limited to 200 or 250)
-- Built in discriminator data output in simple ASCII output using the PC/IF port
-- Object programmable LED
-- Scanner option to look for the site with the best received CC decode rate.
-- UNSQUELCH Delay; Delay settings before the radio unmutes audio to speaker
-- Spectrum Sweeper (Similar to Close Call but might yield better results for many people)
-- Skywarn can be programmed with any number of "objects"
-- 3 function softkeys
-- 5 way navigation keys to access special modes and programming options
-- Virtual Scanner Memory Management system (21 V-folders)
-- BNC connector (Most people prefer it)
-- One button operation (for most functions)
-- Network Access Code (Mentioned already, I know)
-- Better reception for some people

Better to read the wiki for more details and features:

http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/PSR-500

 

[windigofer]

Anyone know if the new GREs (any of them) will support control channel only and if they will need a plan, like the Unidens do? 73s Mike

The PSR-500 will be control-channel trunking for Motorola, just like all other GRE kit since the Pro-92/Pro-2067.

As for "plans", are you meaning trunking-tables? (In the case of the PSR-500, you shouldn't need custom trunking tables except for some systems. The thing is also CPU firmware upgradable, so the Great Rebanding should not be as problematic as with some other scanners.)

As for EDACS and LTR, LCN order will still be necessary *but* as I understand it, this is the case for pretty much all scanners anyways...

 

[fmon]

windigofer[/LEFT]]
As for "plans", are you meaning trunking-tables?

Na, he means the Plan 1 through 4 based on the last three digits in some Uniden scanners and two recent Radio Shack scanners made by Uniden, Pro-433 and 528.

Edit: ka3jjz -Mike is working on a much needed new scanner section in Wiki for new members to the forums. CC only mode is an often ask question.

 

[radionut44]

Glad GRE is reading this forum

From their website it looks like GRE has gone from silver to black...guess they are listening/reading. I am glad to see the PAUSE button moved to a corner so you can readily find/use it without looking at the radio. Wonder if it is too late to include a switch to change to EARPHONE jack to EXT SPEAKER use without the volume drop added to protect hearing?That way you could plug in a shoulder speaker if desired.
Ron

 

[SCPD]

how easy are they to program? is it simple like the pro 96 / 2096 or complicated like the bcd396t?

 

[mancow]

I've always found th PRO series to be very difficult to program. You have to remember all those different FCN + whatever or PROG + whatever commands. With the 396 it's all menu driven. From the looks of it the PSRs will have a menu system too.

 

[SCPD]

what function / prog commands? you press the buttons on the display instead of scrolling through a menu. its all 1 touch! simple as pie

 

[Swipesy]

I've always found th PRO series to be very difficult to program. You have to remember all those different FCN + whatever or PROG + whatever commands. With the 396 it's all menu driven. From the looks of it the PSRs will have a menu system too.

????? If you use Win96 nothing could be more simple to program a Pro 96 or 2096.

 

[rescue161]

When programming by hand, I find that the 396 is easier than the Pro96. It's WAY easier to go to a specific talk group on the 396.

 

[W4UVV]

PSR 600 NAC Decoding

I agree that the NAC decoding will be nice. Just for the sake of discussion, lets say that Uniden steps up their game and adds NAC decoding to the replacements for the Uniden Bearcat 396 and 996. Then what other features will the PSR-500 and PSR-600 have over the Uniden Bearcat 396 and 996?

I am having some occasional difficulty following the postings in thiis thread. Some posters apparantly are mixing known specifications on the PSR 600 with a specification upgrade wish list. The NAC specification information on RR Wiki website and the GRE website are not discussed in detail. The phrase "NAC functionality" is not very helpful.

My question is does the PSR600 automatically decode the NAC for a P25 signal similar to the CTCSS and DCS tone search features for analog signals found on newer digital scanner models?

If it does, that's great and I probably would buy one. If it only allows a user entry of a known P25 NAC, that sucks.

 

[mancow]

Provided you can remember all the stupid FCN + whatever commands, then yes it's easy. There is no way a person could begin to know what they all are without reading the manual first. At least with a menu it's somewhat intuitive.

what function / prog commands? you press the buttons on the display instead of scrolling through a menu. its all 1 touch! simple as pie