PSR-500 and PSR-600 Pre Release

[hydrolocked]

I think the confusing part is that, unlike "dynamic memory", where any scan list/system can point to any frequency, you seem to have "V-scanners" dividing up your memory locations ("objects"), and within those "V-scanners" you essentially have the same thing as uniden's "dynamic memory", but with an "object" limitation of 1800 objects per V-scanner. Another "limitation" is that only one "V-scanner" can be accessed at a time?

here's how I read it based on the PSR-600/500 Wiki, and the Pro-96 owners mauals, correct me where I'm wrong-
(my questions in bold)

37000 memory locations (objects), each “location” may hold:
*A talkgroup (singular, 41040 = Security, for example (uising Uniden format)),
*A conventional channel (e.g. 155.475 CSQ for Law Enforcement Mutual Aid)
OR
*A trunking system (set of frequencies + LCN, as applicable)


-The Scanner has multiple personalities (“V-Scanners”)
-Each V-scanner may contain 1800 objects, “meaning any combination of talkgroups, conventional channels, and trunking systems” (per the wiki)

so, if I have a trunking system with 10 frequencies, and 50 talkgroups, that’s 60 of my 1800 objects in that particular v-scanner?

A V-scanner essentially contains “scan lists”, which may point to multiple objects within that V-scanner (no real limitation on how many objects in the V-scanner you're using are in the "scan list"?)


SO one V-scanner would be used for Illinois, then banks within it would have State of Illinois Ops, Berwyn, Cook County, Cicero, Chicago, etc.

Another may be used for Missouri – banks within IT would have State of MO ops,
West St. Louis County, South St. Louis County, St. Louis City, and the Boeing TRS.

As long as the objects in each “V-scanner” do not exceed a count of 1800, all is well.

Does that mean there’s only 21 possible V-scanners? (the way I read it, it does… can one have 2000 objects and another has 1600? Good question)

Does this mean 155.475 would take up 21 objects if I wanted it available in ANY scanner “configuration”, or can scan lists point across “V-scanners”?

just trying to understand how all this works. Maybe it would be easier if i had bought a Pro-96 before i was going to move someplace where i woudl NEED a digital scanner to listen....

 

[hydrolocked]

by "banks" when talking about IL and MO systems, i mean "scan lists"

 

[windigofer]

OK, I have a quick and dirty PDF of how the channel management works (at least as I understand it) as well as how trunking system management works--I've done visual depictions, so hopefully it's easier for folks to understand (and GRE--if I've gotten this wrong, please let me know).

 

[fmon]

Object-oriented programming (OOP) is a programming paradigm that uses "objects" to design applications and computer programs. It uses several techniques from previously established paradigms, including inheritance, modularity, polymorphism, and encapsulation.

Gees, those red words are out of my realm. :lol:

 

[hydrolocked]

OK, I have a quick and dirty PDF of how the channel management works (at least as I understand it) as well as how trunking system management works--I've done visual depictions, so hopefully it's easier for folks to understand (and GRE--if I've gotten this wrong, please let me know).

I think I understand how the trunking system can be grouped together (maybe?), but the conventional memory management is a bit hairy...

is EACH conventional channel (again, i'll use LEMA as an example... 155.475, CSQ "Law Enforcement Mutual Aid") a complete object, or could several channels (e.g. , LEMA, Sherif net, Point to point....several MUTUAL AID channels) be grouped into a single object?

 

[windigofer]

I think I understand how the trunking system can be grouped together (maybe?), but the conventional memory management is a bit hairy...

is EACH conventional channel (again, i'll use LEMA as an example... 155.475, CSQ "Law Enforcement Mutual Aid") a complete object, or could several channels (e.g. , LEMA, Sherif net, Point to point....several MUTUAL AID channels) be grouped into a single object?

As I understand it (and I well could be wrong on this; we'll find out for certain when the thing is formally type approved), both banks and conventional channels can count as objects, and (much like the example I gave with the trunking system) you can essentially group "objects within objects".

For example, I can set up a "Police Frequencies" bank (which is an object) and place the conventional police frequencies in that bank (all these frequencies are in turn objects); I can also set up (for instance) a separate bank for "Kentucky State Police" and put all the conventional APCO-25 frequencies in that bank--having room enough for just *that* set of frequencies.

So the LEMA channel would count as an object in and of itself, but you can group that with other police channels in an object (essentially "bank objects" are used instead of conventional banks).

One good visual way to get an idea on how this works is with the circle "sets" people play around with in algebra--basically with object-oriented programming you're setting up frequencies (which are their own individual sets) into larger sets like "police", "fire", etc.

(Again, this is my understanding of things. I could be mistaken. We'll find out when the beta boxen are released into the wild )

 

[windigofer]

Object-oriented programming (OOP) is a programming paradigm that uses "objects" to design applications and computer programs. It uses several techniques from previously established paradigms, including inheritance, modularity, polymorphism, and encapsulation.

Gees, those red words are out of my realm. :lol:

OK, I can explain some of this stuff (of note, I've been in computer programming classes before and am familiar with OOP--it's been the new hotness now for some time)

Modularity means, in essence, you can build things with basic building blocks. In the case of the PSR-500, this means (in essence) you can build a "trunking object" with the sets of control channels you need (and you can have these as individual "objects" too, like "site A", "site B", and so on) and the talkgroups (which are themselves an object).

A good "meatspace" example of modularity is with Lego toys (seriously!). You have Lego kits to build specific models, but you can often use multiple Lego kits to build bigger things. (Another example, and one that might well be more at home for kids my age , is with some of the Transformers toys or Voltron toys that were robots in and of themselves but which could be combined to make an even BIGGER robot )

Polymorphism means that something can change depending on needs. In the case of the PSR-500, this mostly comes into play with the concept of "object"--an "object" can be a bank of frequencies, a frequency itself, a trunked group list, a list of control frequencies for a system, or a "trunking object" which is a combo of the control frequencies and trunked list (and the control frequency lists are themselves made up of four or more "objects").

Polymorphism also can come into play with sizing of objects. Basically, the PSR-500 can reserve "big chunks" for big lists and "little chunks" for little lists--instead of having fixed banks of fifty channels, you can have a "police" bank with up to 1800 channels, a "fire" bank, and so on. Instead of having multiple listings in banks for multisite systems, you can make a single object with different "sub-objects" for different sites (this is going to be a godsend for big systems like SAFE-T). Instead of being stuck with just 150 talkgroups, you can make huge lists--or little ones--depending on how much room it actually needs.

This is actually a Good Thing, as it's very similar to how memory is reserved in your computer--it means that there is less space wasted, and thus more possibilities for frequency storage open up.

Encapsulation means you can put smaller things in bigger things--think of a Matroshka doll (which has smaller dolls in her, and smaller dolls in THAT doll, and so on). In the case of the PSR-500, this means we can put objects in objects (the classic examples being making a "bank object" with many conventional frequency "objects", or making a "trunking system" object with a "talkgroup" object and several "control channel list" objects (which in and of themselves contain multiple "frequency" objects)).

Basically you can put boxes into boxes with this stuff. (I'm not 100 percent sure on this, but V-Scanners themselves may work like this too--the V-Scanner being the "ultimate big box" where the medium-sized boxes are stored (which have lots of little boxes in them that hold frequencies and talkgroups).

 

[mikey60]

No, for some strange reason they haven't asked me to beta test.
:twisted:

Gee, I wonder why?

Don't feel bad, they haven't asked me either...

 

[hydrolocked]

2 more questions (more for the beta testers?)

1) are there only 21 possible V-scanners?

2) are there only 1800 objects per V-scanner, or can one have 2000, so long as another only has 1600?

 

[rdale]

Any radio beta testing I've been involved with doesn't allow the testers to talk about the radio during the process, not until after it's done. With the other scanners getting a manual on the FCC site last week, I would imagine we'll have a 500/600 one up there soon.

 

[windigofer]

Any radio beta testing I've been involved with doesn't allow the testers to talk about the radio during the process, not until after it's done. With the other scanners getting a manual on the FCC site last week, I would imagine we'll have a 500/600 one up there soon.

Thanks for noting this--pretty much in the vast majority of beta tests, you aren't allowed to share details on a product until the beta testing is done (and usually not till it's in production).

So you probably will NOT hear from the beta testers for awhile on this (partly due to non-disclosures).

As for the other scanners getting manuals up--I missed this. URL, please? :3

 

[rdale]

Not offhand - it's in the 200/300 thread and I didn't bother grabbing since I'm waiting for this one ;>

 

[PanJurekMrJerry]

939.98750 is the same as 939.9875

Did you check the Wiki? It's got a description - why not read through then ask a specific question?

I did read it.

The reason that I asked this was that 0.0125 was written out as 0.00125
on http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/PSR-600 as:
928.00125-939.9875 ( Frequency Band ) 12.5 ( Step Size )

Also notice this line: 162-174 ( Frequency Band ) 12.5 ( Step Size )

So this is preset for 162-174?
You cannot choose
12.5, 7.5, or 6.25?

 

[DaveIN]

The reason that I asked this was that 0.0125 was written out as 0.00125
on http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/PSR-600 as:
928.00125-939.9875 ( Frequency Band ) 12.5 ( Step Size )

Looks like a typo in the FCC document, .00125 vs. .0125, or 12.5 KHz.

 

[DaveIN]

Not offhand - it's in the 200/300 thread and I didn't bother grabbing since I'm waiting for this one ;>

I think you meant 300/400, but I understood what you said, Rob. It was easyer with model numbers like 96/2096, but I'm not complaining.

 

[JRichard]

No adustable step sizes for conventional scanning

Is disappointing that these radios will not permit adjustable step sizes for conventional scanning. Here in Canada, the 148MHz band and 162 - 174 are all 15kHz but the default is for the US 12.5Khz. Too bad.

 

[kikito]

Is disappointing that these radios will not permit adjustable step sizes for conventional scanning. Here in Canada, the 148MHz band and 162 - 174 are all 15kHz but the default is for the US 12.5Khz. Too bad.

Maybe I missed it earlier in the thread but did anybody *officially* confirmed that? Other than the wiki saying so?

Heck, the wiki's "top depiction" doesn't even match the working prototype from Daytona near the bottom of the page....

I would say we don't know that yet....

 

[n4jri]

I'm kinda hoping that some sort of programming software will be published once the radio's programming is finalized. That should present the kind of opportunity we need to hash out these questions. I sure hope that Don Starr is involved.

73/Allen (N4JRI)

 

[rdale]

A perusal of this thread will show Don's response...

 

[PanJurekMrJerry]

SNIPPED

Encapsulation means you can put smaller things in bigger things--think of a Matroshka doll (which has smaller dolls in her, and smaller dolls in THAT doll, and so on). In the case of the PSR-500, this means we can put objects in objects (the classic examples being making a "bank object" with many conventional frequency "objects", or making a "trunking system" object with a "talkgroup" object and several "control channel list" objects (which in and of themselves contain multiple "frequency" objects))

SNIIPED

http://www.polandbymail.com/get_item_250300_nesting-doll-matryoshka-7pcs.htm