Question for those who use or have used portable radios in public safety.

[kayn1n32008]

That's pretty insulting... What a disconnect.

No. It’s reality. As long as they can select their dispatch talk group, and Tac channels they are good to go. Majority of end users know PTT/RTL and turn the radio on and off.

If my house was on fire, I'd rather it get on the scene a little slower than not at all. There could be a fuel leak, faulty instrumentation. Having the truck just stall while it is motion is very dangerous.

If the fire truck has a leak, or faulty instrumentation ect. The truck should NOT be responding to emergencies until those defects are corrected. Period. Using defective equipment in a life safety/IDLH setting? Did you even read what you wrote?

Your analogy wasn't very good since with vehicles you have to keep your eye on the gauge /display. The needle may be on "E" or "R" depending on the make but there's always a reserve. It's really more like that. It doesn't just break down when it gets to E.

YOUR analogy wasn’t very good either.

Here’s an analogy for you:

You have a truck about to run out, do you get fuel? Or wait and see how long you can run on the reserve?

After your last call you didn’t fuel up. You had half a tank, all good.

On your next call it ends up being a large and complex fire. You have Red interior attack and Green interior attack. Your engine gets to the ‘E’, while you have the interior attack still working in an IDLH environment.

Do you:

A: keep them in there, you have a ‘reserve’ in the fuel tank. You be good until their BA runs out. FIDO.(Run your radio at full power until it dies)

B: cut the pressure from 125psi to 50psi to preserve fuel so the interior attack crews can finish up before you run out of fuel. FIDO(Reduce your radio power output until it dies)

C: with draw your interior attack crews and change out engines for one with a full fuel tank.(Evac the IDLH and change the radio battery)

 

[rapidcharger]

No. It’s reality. As long as they can select their dispatch talk group, and Tac channels they are good to go. Majority of end users know PTT/RTL and turn the radio on and off.



If the fire truck has a leak, or faulty instrumentation ect. The truck should NOT be responding to emergencies until those defects are corrected. Period. Using defective equipment in a life safety/IDLH setting? Did you even read what you wrote?



YOUR analogy wasn’t very good either.

Here’s an analogy for you:

You have a truck about to run out, do you get fuel? Or wait and see how long you can run on the reserve?

After your last call you didn’t fuel up. You had half a tank, all good.

On your next call it ends up being a large and complex fire. You have Red interior attack and Green interior attack. Your engine gets to the ‘E’, while you have the interior attack still working in an IDLH environment.

Do you:

A: keep them in there, you have a ‘reserve’ in the fuel tank. You be good until their BA runs out. FIDO.(Run your radio at full power until it dies)

B: cut the pressure from 125psi to 50psi to preserve fuel so the interior attack crews can finish up before you run out of fuel. FIDO(Reduce your radio power output until it dies)

C: with draw your interior attack crews and change out engines for one with a full fuel tank.(Evac the IDLH and change the radio battery)

Better than half of those who responded to the poll would rather have more talk time than have the radio abruptly cut off when the battery is low. That is the verdict. You and those who "liked" your highly insulting comment obviously think you're a lot smarter those who serve but I'm confident you'd feel differently if you were in their shoes.

That's all I've got to say.

 

[kayn1n32008]

You and those who "liked" your highly insulting comment obviously think you're a lot smarter those who serve but I'm confident you'd feel differently if you were in their shoes.

It was not meant to be ‘insulting’, but unless a first responder has an interest in the technology, they don’t understand it, they don’t understand how it works. They know how to spin the dial to a few channels, and know how to wait for the TPT, and they know how to turn it on. It’s not insulting, it’s fact. It comes from a lack of knowledge. There is nothing wrong with that.

That's all I've got to say.

Have you ever worked in an IDLH? I have.

Have you ever been shot at? I haven’t.

Your lack of any sort of acceptance of what people have told you is laughable.

A low battery alert is telling you there is a situation that has changed. It’s no different than my H2S monitor alerting me to the presence of H2S. It’s telling me the situation has changed and it needs to be addressed. The correct course of action is to evacuate to somewhere safe.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Depends on the design spec. My system called for 8db in building, body worn coverage using standard RSM with 5/8 wave whip on radio in residential woodframe structure throughout a very wide metro area. To get this, the portable needs to be operated at 3 watts (800MHz) to achieve the 8dB in building with BER less than 5% and a DAQ of 3.4 or higher. In the ATP it did much better. But at the end of the day, this is what the maker calls for (3 watt portable) and this is what we feed it.

PS radios should have some graceful degradation when the battery runs out.

What if for sake of argument, the radio reduces power to the point that DAQ is 3.0, and minutes before, along with local battery alert, has sent a low battery message to dispatch or incident command. There would still be a reliable signal and there would be communications, and the IC can pull him out.

 

[kv6o]

That's pretty insulting.
I asked users and not the radio admins who sit in relative safety while getting a higher salary as they insinuate their users are dumdums. What a disconnect.

I don't know why you think it's insulting, most of the users I work with describe it that way to me.

I am a system manager for a P25 system with over 7000 users in my zone alone, and I am a user as a Fire Chief with a volunteer FD. I spend plenty of time training folks on the in's and out's of how the radios work, hot to use them in different situations, etc. And at the end of the day, it's a tool like your cell phone, computer, car, etc. They just want it to work, without having to understand everything under the hood.

I think you're making this more complicated than it needs to be. Warning for low battery means just that. No action (on the radio's programming pat) necessary beyond the warning.

 

[MTS2000des]

I don't know why you think it's insulting, most of the users I work with describe it that way to me.

He isn't interested in hearing anything but what he wants to. He made this clear on a response given on another medium. I am paraphrasing but he said "I am not interested in what the admins or support persons have to say, I am only interested in the end users perspective, and my poll has shown they have spoken and prefer low RF with no warning and longer operating time"- now again, not a direct quote, but this was the gist. I am sure I will be corrected, but several heard this transmission and can confirm.

I am a system manager for a P25 system with over 7000 users in my zone alone, and I am a user as a Fire Chief with a volunteer FD. I spend plenty of time training folks on the in's and out's of how the radios work, hot to use them in different situations, etc.

I also manage a 15 site 800MHz system with over 350 talk groups, 11,000 active subscribers and 4,000 additional mutual aid IDs, with a PSAP that dispatches for 19+ agencies, have numerous state and Federal agencies using our radio system, COM-T/COM-L, ETA RFIM, have been deployed on numerous fire, law and special events over 20 years..and use LMR radios on a DAILY basis both professionally and personally, and the O/P knows this....BUT...

He wants me to SHUT UP so....there! (He also stated this during the conversation mentioned above). Only interested in the narrow ideology he has, so why bother. "I'm not interested in a debate or discussion" (another paraphrase, but again, verifiable by many who overheard this on one of the most prominent local amateur repeaters)

 

[rapidcharger]

I don't know why you think it's insulting, most of the users I work with describe it that way to me.

You insulted the intelligence of your users when you said they don't know how to operate their radio (other than "Push to talk, release to listen is about it" ) . Yet somehow they're smart enough to perform a set of procedures when they have a low battery chirp. That's not only insulting, that's just ludicrous.

Intelligence has very little to do with it. It's about early failure of batteries through no fault of the user and in prolonged and very stressful situations such as what is going on in Florida, where you can't just run back to the station and grab another battery or lockout and tag your radio. That sounds like fantasyland and not a real life scenario.

They just want it to work, without having to understand everything under the hood.

That's exactly what it sounds like judging by the poll results.

He isn't interested in hearing anything but what he wants to. He made this clear on a response given on another medium. I am paraphrasing but he said "I am not interested in what the admins or support persons have to say, I am only interested in the end users perspective, and my poll has shown they have spoken and prefer low RF with no warning and longer operating time"- now again, not a direct quote, but this was the gist. I am sure I will be corrected, but several heard this transmission and can confirm.

That is indeed what I said but I've also said it here multiple times. It's not a secret that I was only interested in users and not the admins.

I also manage a 15 site 800MHz system with over 350 talk groups, 11,000 active subscribers and 4,000 additional mutual aid IDs, with a PSAP that dispatches for 19+ agencies, have numerous state and Federal agencies using our radio system, COM-T/COM-L, ETA RFIM, have been deployed on numerous fire, law and special events over 20 years..and use LMR radios on a DAILY basis both professionally and personally, and the O/P knows this....BUT...

That's nice but how many burning buildings have you marched into?
How many battlefields have you been on?
How many calls for service have you responded to not knowing if that was going to be your last day on earth?

Zero.

He wants me to SHUT UP so....there! (He also stated this during the conversation mentioned above). Only interested in the narrow ideology he has, so why bother. "I'm not interested in a debate or discussion" (another paraphrase, but again, verifiable by many who overheard this on one of the most prominent local amateur repeaters)

Now Veruca darling, You're having a temper tantrum because I won't debate something with you. Just like I won't give you a golden goose or an oompah loompah. As I've said before, I didn't post this poll to debate the subject. I posted the poll to learn more about what users find to be a better feature. The poll results have the potential to bolster an argument if I were to debate the subject but I just posted the poll to gather data. I didn't want a discussion, that part is correct.

Something else you need to be aware of is that I have new minimum standards for what I will respond to online. I am also very busy and I do apologize that I can not respond to every reply personally. I know that you've very much into debating things with people on the internet. Things you and others have said publicly on this forum, in this very thread could be used against you and for your own safety and convenience, I did not want you to say anything that could come back to bite you later just so you can try to win an argument online. Words a liability. Choose them wisely and use them sparingly.

 

[MTS2000des]

That's nice but how many burning buildings have you marched into?
How many battlefields have you been on?
How many calls for service have you responded to not knowing if that was going to be your last day on earth?

Zero.

And you have no experience, training or certifications relevant to the field. You admitted this. Another armchair quarterback who knows all.
I never said I ran into burning buildings. I know better. Without the right training, support and equipment in fully functional condition, one doesn't go in to begin with.
You're a ham guy with all the answers. We get that.

Now Veruca darling, You're having a temper tantrum because I won't debate something with you.

Was it not you that said "one knows how right they are, by the number of names one is called, and the number of insults they receive"?

You simply refuse to accept anything that doesn't fit your ideology based on nothing more than your personal opinion. Many others have posted facts but you clearly are uninterested in discussing them. Stop being a hypocrite and allow yourself to indulge that others (not me) have pointed out facts. One should take them in rather discarding them because they aren't what one wishes to hear.

As was mentioned, this is a DISCUSSION forum. I think you need to revisit what this means. One is free to use the features of the forum to ignore a user, but so long as it is permitted by the owners of said forum and in the spirit of the topic, one is welcome to reply and express themselves.

That's what forums are about. That's what makes them different from blogs, editorials, and broadcasts.

Things you and others have said publicly on this forum, in this very thread could be used against you and for your own safety and convenience, I did not want you to say anything that could come back to bite you later just so you can try to win an argument online. Words a liability. Choose them wisely and use them sparingly.

One might interpret such words as a veiled threat. Be advised, threats are taken very seriously, and acted upon accordingly. Have a nice day.

 

[KevinC]

Since the poll is closed and this has just turned into an argument we're done here.