Revised FCC Form 605 Will Ask Applicants “the Felony Question”
- Thread starter luckygecko
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Hey KK4JUG that looks like an impressive rig you have in your avatar.
The wife an I are avid RVers since forever and now that we're looking to retire we're going to upgrade to a large fifth wheel.
I love just going to RV centers and shows just to browse and look, do you have any large pics of your set up that you'd like to share.
I know this is off topic so If this is out of line with the forum rules then please disregard.
The wife an I are avid RVers since forever and now that we're looking to retire we're going to upgrade to a large fifth wheel.
I love just going to RV centers and shows just to browse and look, do you have any large pics of your set up that you'd like to share.
I know this is off topic so If this is out of line with the forum rules then please disregard.
Bruce, that's not an RV. It's a mobile command post that I and the Emergency Management designed about 15 years ago. It has low band FM, VHF, UHF, Aircraft, Marine and Ham Radios. The large dish on top accommodates high-speed internet and 8 satellite phone lines. The smaller dish is commercial TV. It has two pneumatic masts, one for an antenna and the other for a camera. There's a 15KW generator, restroom, small galley, Wi-Fi and a 50W repeater for the on board portables. It's a Bluebird bus body and it's been to tornados, train wrecks, hazmat spills, hostage situations and hurricanes (including Katrina), well, you name it. You mentioned RV but, in fact, there are no sleeping facilities on it. I retired 10 years ago but I still serve as communications officer (and driver) when the unit is called out.
My .02 cents
As someone with a 26 yr old class 5 federal felony, let me give some thoughts on this.
In the last 20 to 25 yrs, society has become way too uptight and way too goofy about felonies. On one hand, they will talk on and on about how they want to reduce the jails, they want to get people back into society, but then they will put so many restrictions on people that it becomes impossible.
My original charge was for Embezzlement, later reduced to Bank Larceny. I did 30 days in jail, 6 months house arrest, 5 years probation. I paid my fines, I paid my restitution. I made a few mistakes, and in fact accidently violated my probation and spent 2 days in jail and had my probation extended. During that time, I also made an effort to always be employed, and to give my all to my employers. One thing I found, avoid corporations, look at Mom and Pop companies that are more willing to give someone a chance.
When I first started looking for work, one thing I had in my favor was I had worked part time for 3 yrs for a small pizza chain, the owners all were more than happy to give me glowing reviews, because I earned them. I worked a few different jobs in that time.
When I decided to get my CDL, I talked to one school, the recruiter said flatout that no one would touch me. A few days later I was at a heavy industry job fair, I talked to a recruiter for a different CDL school. This guy looked me straight in the eye and said come see him Monday morning, if I wanted OTR, he would guarantee me 3 or 4 jobs before I signed the papers, if I wanted local, he had a 3 ring binder of 30 companies, more than half would hire felons.
Monday came, I interviewed and signed the papers, and had two local companies already interested in me. I graduated 2nd in my class, beat out by 1 point. Over the next 6 mos., I worked for 3 different trucking companies before finding the job I've been at for 20 yrs.. Many times, my boss has said that he's had better luck with hiring ex cons than those who weren't we are willing to work harder, try harder, and do more.
At the time I was convicted, I was an EMT-B, I worked as an armed security guard (obviously can't do that anymore), I also volunteered for a SAR Team that was part of an ambulance service and coordinated and run by the local Sheriff. In the 5 yrs I was on that team, I was part of a group that rewrote it's bylaws and hiring standards, I worked multiple SAR missions, was the teams rep. for the state SAR board. The Sheriff and the Deputy who oversaw the SAR team knew my history, neither one cared. The Sheriff put it to me bluntly, did you learn your lesson? Yes Sir I did. Good enough for me, now go save lives.
When I got married, unfortunately I had to give up SAR, as it was impractical for me to respond to calls from where we lived. My EMT license expired. In 2003 I began looking at getting back into all these things. Oops, I have a felony, almost all SAR teams won't accept me, they now require background checks to take the EMT class, and those with clean records fill up the classes, I was put on a 3 yr waiting list.
I've gone on living my life. But it's funny, I have a HAZMAT endorsement on my CDL that requires a background check, I pass it every 4 yrs. I have a TWIC card, that I passed with no problem. The trucking company I work for hauls limited gov't loads, we frequently have to pass a background check to access some military bases, no problems. In 2011, my boss hired me out to haul a USAF owned truck from Colorado to Florida, it was a specialized radar truck. Before agreeing to do the load, my boss advised the broker and the gov't rep that the driver driving the truck for them had a felony record. The gov't ran my info and had no issues with it, in fact I did the same work twice more.
In May 2017 I got my Tech ticket, this past Feb of 2018 I started to contemplate getting my General license, as I've learned of this new requirement and the hassles with it, I look at it as why bother. Do I really want to go through the hassle? Do I want to risk losing my Tech license because some pencil pusher.
We want people to get back into society, we want them to become a viable part and get on with their lives, yet at the same time, we're going to put every blockade we can in front of them. I'm an avid off-roader, I recently looked into getting on with a specialized SAR team that is vehicle based only. Oh, they now required background checks and cannot accept someone with a felony. Yep, I still can't get my EMT certification again, now, the gov't wants to play games with me being a HAM operator.
Can we make up our minds.
As someone with a 26 yr old class 5 federal felony, let me give some thoughts on this.
In the last 20 to 25 yrs, society has become way too uptight and way too goofy about felonies. On one hand, they will talk on and on about how they want to reduce the jails, they want to get people back into society, but then they will put so many restrictions on people that it becomes impossible.
My original charge was for Embezzlement, later reduced to Bank Larceny. I did 30 days in jail, 6 months house arrest, 5 years probation. I paid my fines, I paid my restitution. I made a few mistakes, and in fact accidently violated my probation and spent 2 days in jail and had my probation extended. During that time, I also made an effort to always be employed, and to give my all to my employers. One thing I found, avoid corporations, look at Mom and Pop companies that are more willing to give someone a chance.
When I first started looking for work, one thing I had in my favor was I had worked part time for 3 yrs for a small pizza chain, the owners all were more than happy to give me glowing reviews, because I earned them. I worked a few different jobs in that time.
When I decided to get my CDL, I talked to one school, the recruiter said flatout that no one would touch me. A few days later I was at a heavy industry job fair, I talked to a recruiter for a different CDL school. This guy looked me straight in the eye and said come see him Monday morning, if I wanted OTR, he would guarantee me 3 or 4 jobs before I signed the papers, if I wanted local, he had a 3 ring binder of 30 companies, more than half would hire felons.
Monday came, I interviewed and signed the papers, and had two local companies already interested in me. I graduated 2nd in my class, beat out by 1 point. Over the next 6 mos., I worked for 3 different trucking companies before finding the job I've been at for 20 yrs.. Many times, my boss has said that he's had better luck with hiring ex cons than those who weren't we are willing to work harder, try harder, and do more.
At the time I was convicted, I was an EMT-B, I worked as an armed security guard (obviously can't do that anymore), I also volunteered for a SAR Team that was part of an ambulance service and coordinated and run by the local Sheriff. In the 5 yrs I was on that team, I was part of a group that rewrote it's bylaws and hiring standards, I worked multiple SAR missions, was the teams rep. for the state SAR board. The Sheriff and the Deputy who oversaw the SAR team knew my history, neither one cared. The Sheriff put it to me bluntly, did you learn your lesson? Yes Sir I did. Good enough for me, now go save lives.
When I got married, unfortunately I had to give up SAR, as it was impractical for me to respond to calls from where we lived. My EMT license expired. In 2003 I began looking at getting back into all these things. Oops, I have a felony, almost all SAR teams won't accept me, they now require background checks to take the EMT class, and those with clean records fill up the classes, I was put on a 3 yr waiting list.
I've gone on living my life. But it's funny, I have a HAZMAT endorsement on my CDL that requires a background check, I pass it every 4 yrs. I have a TWIC card, that I passed with no problem. The trucking company I work for hauls limited gov't loads, we frequently have to pass a background check to access some military bases, no problems. In 2011, my boss hired me out to haul a USAF owned truck from Colorado to Florida, it was a specialized radar truck. Before agreeing to do the load, my boss advised the broker and the gov't rep that the driver driving the truck for them had a felony record. The gov't ran my info and had no issues with it, in fact I did the same work twice more.
In May 2017 I got my Tech ticket, this past Feb of 2018 I started to contemplate getting my General license, as I've learned of this new requirement and the hassles with it, I look at it as why bother. Do I really want to go through the hassle? Do I want to risk losing my Tech license because some pencil pusher.
We want people to get back into society, we want them to become a viable part and get on with their lives, yet at the same time, we're going to put every blockade we can in front of them. I'm an avid off-roader, I recently looked into getting on with a specialized SAR team that is vehicle based only. Oh, they now required background checks and cannot accept someone with a felony. Yep, I still can't get my EMT certification again, now, the gov't wants to play games with me being a HAM operator.
Can we make up our minds.
RFI-EMI-GUY
Member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2013
- Messages
- 7,540
I agree, I was watching a show about German prisons and the whole point is rehabilitation back into society. Time spent away from outside world is the punishment. 180 degrees different than the US which is based on a mean spirited bully pulpit. It is no wonder the US prisons seem to have a revolving door.
I thought I read somewhere that the FCC felony question only appeared if someone were making a NEW application. So an upgrade to General may not trigger the question. You should look into that right away. As far as your past, have you talked to an attorney about expungement? I know someone who had a pretty severe youthful felony expunged. I don't know how that works as far as having to report a felony record, but a discussion with an attorney or judge might be worthwhile.
The question is part of Form 605 and the electronic form on the FCC's web site. Everyone has to answer the question. New licensees, upgrades, renewals, everyone.
See the 8th paragraph of this article on the ARRL web site:
Revised FCC Form 605 Will Ask Applicants
ARRL--Paragraph 10 (Last Paragraph)---Really---Is this a Trap ?????
Individuals convicted of a felony and later pardoned or whose record has been sealed should answer YES, and include information regarding the pardon, “as that will be relevant to whether the conviction still presents any material and substantial question of fact regarding whether the applicant has the character qualifications to be a Commission licensee,” the FCC told VECs. An overturned conviction need not be disclosed — but a conviction still on appeal must be disclosed.”
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Answer YES ????---This is Part From Wiki-Pedia on Sealed Records
Record sealing is the practice of sealing or, in some cases, destroying court records that would otherwise be publicly accessible as public records. The term is derived from the tradition of placing a seal on specified files or documents that prevents anyone from reviewing the files without receiving a court order. The modern process and requirements to seal a record and the protections it provides vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, and even between civil and criminal cases.
Generally, record sealing can be defined as the process of removing from general review the records pertaining to a court case. However, the records may not completely disappear and may still be reviewed under limited circumstances; in most instances, it requires a court order to unseal records once they are sealed. In the United States, some states order records to be destroyed after they are sealed. Once a record is sealed, in some states, the contents are legally considered never to have occurred and are not acknowledged by the state.
The public policy of record sealing balances the desire to free named citizens from the burdens caused by the information contained in state records while maintaining the state's interest in the preservation of records that may be beneficial to the state or other citizens.[1]
In many cases, a person with a sealed record gains the legal right to deny or not acknowledge anything to do with the arrest and the legal proceedings from the case itself.[2]
You Can Read the Rest Here--
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Record_sealing
Individuals convicted of a felony and later pardoned or whose record has been sealed should answer YES, and include information regarding the pardon, “as that will be relevant to whether the conviction still presents any material and substantial question of fact regarding whether the applicant has the character qualifications to be a Commission licensee,” the FCC told VECs. An overturned conviction need not be disclosed — but a conviction still on appeal must be disclosed.”
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Answer YES ????---This is Part From Wiki-Pedia on Sealed Records
Record sealing is the practice of sealing or, in some cases, destroying court records that would otherwise be publicly accessible as public records. The term is derived from the tradition of placing a seal on specified files or documents that prevents anyone from reviewing the files without receiving a court order. The modern process and requirements to seal a record and the protections it provides vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, and even between civil and criminal cases.
Generally, record sealing can be defined as the process of removing from general review the records pertaining to a court case. However, the records may not completely disappear and may still be reviewed under limited circumstances; in most instances, it requires a court order to unseal records once they are sealed. In the United States, some states order records to be destroyed after they are sealed. Once a record is sealed, in some states, the contents are legally considered never to have occurred and are not acknowledged by the state.
The public policy of record sealing balances the desire to free named citizens from the burdens caused by the information contained in state records while maintaining the state's interest in the preservation of records that may be beneficial to the state or other citizens.[1]
In many cases, a person with a sealed record gains the legal right to deny or not acknowledge anything to do with the arrest and the legal proceedings from the case itself.[2]
You Can Read the Rest Here--
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Record_sealing
Excellent post. Thank you for sharing your experiences. JMHO, but, if it were me, I would probably submit that post as my explanation document to good ol' Uncle Charlie.
k6cpo
Member
The question will NOT be asked on a straight renewal. It is required on all other transactions. Here is a direct quote from an FCC letter sent to all the VECs: "Please keep in mind that the felony question must be answered—even if previously answered—for New, Modifications, Renewal Modifications (emphasis mine) and amendments to these purposes, every time." A "renewal modification" is not the same thing as a straight renewal. It is a renewal that also includes a modification, such as a class upgrade, call sign change or address change.
And What I Have Found is That If the Felony is Sealed That Question Does Not Have to be Answered---If The Persons Case was Sealed and they are Denied---I See a Real Big Lawsuit Coming Against the Govt Bodies
See Post 109 Again on this Law---The Original Poster Says He has all These Endorsements / CDL / and What Not--Leads me to Believe his Case is a Sealed Judgement--So Dont Even Bother Checking that Box---Better Yet Find Out from the Lawyer You Had to Look Into it to See if its Sealed or in Public Records
See Post 109 Again on this Law---The Original Poster Says He has all These Endorsements / CDL / and What Not--Leads me to Believe his Case is a Sealed Judgement--So Dont Even Bother Checking that Box---Better Yet Find Out from the Lawyer You Had to Look Into it to See if its Sealed or in Public Records
Because mine is federal, my only option is a Presidential pardon, I've looked into it several times, it's possible to do alone, but the recommendation is to use an Atty., I've talked to 3 in my area who can do it, flat fee $5,000. Expect the process to take up to 3 yrs, depending on who is in office, my political leanings, and the mood of the Pardon Atty's office based on the recommendations from the FBI and others. The form to fill out is about 7 pages, requires 3 personal references and a whole bunch of other things.
RFI-EMI-GUY
Member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2013
- Messages
- 7,540
I sure would not want to pay an attorney $5K to fill out a 7 page federal form. If it were me, I would fill out as much as possible and pop down to Legal Aid or pay a family attorney by the hour if there were any actual legalize to decipher. Big Time Attorneys have BMW's, Porn Stars and Sharks to feed, your $5K would be spread very thin!
By the way, I got our local Senator to take care of some VA stuff for my father even though I personally would not vote for the guy. His staff were very attentive and efficient.
interesting reading here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_se_legal_representation_in_the_United_States#Reasons
Good story here, saw it twice on TV news.
Do convicted criminals deserve a second chance? One man's incredible story offers a clue | Fox News
ecps92
Member
Not a Lawyer, but have slept at Holiday Inn Express in the past.
Sealed Records and Expungments are two different items.
Laws in each state vary on who/why someone can access a SEAL and it is quite common for a state to even provide LE with Sealed Records all the time. Having a Record Sealed does not [in many states] exempt a person from having to answer the question Truthfully
Sealed Records and Expungments are two different items.
Laws in each state vary on who/why someone can access a SEAL and it is quite common for a state to even provide LE with Sealed Records all the time. Having a Record Sealed does not [in many states] exempt a person from having to answer the question Truthfully
So, the entire process is this: Fill out the 7 page form, local and FBI fingerprint, local and FBI background check, submit paperwork, wait, wait, wait, wait, interview with local cops, interview with FBI, interview with ATF, interview with Pardon Atty. office, wait, wait, wait, wait, repeat interview process, undergo search of home, financial records, etc. that basically sidesteps 4A, wait, wait, wait, interview with Pardon Atty office, hopefully they recommend you for Presidential pardon. Paperwork is then submitted to POTUS office for review by staff before POTUS can sign it.
I've tried to get assistance from my local Senator/Rep., two of the Senators offices told me that they don't get involved with that kind of stuff.
D
DaveNF2G
Guest
Sealing of a record is done by court order. It may only be unsealed by another court order.
If you have a sealed record, then you are lawfully entitled to answer "no" on the FCC form. If they want to know otherwise, then it is up to them to seek a court order to unseal your records. If that happens, then you must also be notified.
If you have a sealed record, then you are lawfully entitled to answer "no" on the FCC form. If they want to know otherwise, then it is up to them to seek a court order to unseal your records. If that happens, then you must also be notified.
ecps92
Member
Again, that is applied differently in each State.
Not all jurisdictions have the same LAW / definition for a SEALED Record.
For Years in MA - sealed record information was provided for Firearms Licensing as well as Adoption proceedings. No notice to the person was made.
Now in the past 10 years, LE [not just for Firearms licensing] has regular access to SEALED Record information, with the click of a web browser, No Court Orders.
Not all jurisdictions have the same LAW / definition for a SEALED Record.
For Years in MA - sealed record information was provided for Firearms Licensing as well as Adoption proceedings. No notice to the person was made.
Now in the past 10 years, LE [not just for Firearms licensing] has regular access to SEALED Record information, with the click of a web browser, No Court Orders.
I think for the most part when it comes to felonies employers look at what the charge is, time elapsed and whether you have multiple felonies. Someone with a felony for a nonviolent crime committed 20 plus years ago poses a minimal threat to say someone with multiple violent felonies committed a few years ago.
Context matters as does how you live your life AFTER you make your poor life choice that lead to the felony =).
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2018
- Messages
- 869
.
Hmmmmm...Oh My !,
.
I haven't looked at this topic in nearly 6 months. By this time I would have thought it had reach'd some sort of conclusion- but unhappily I see it hasn't. In fact it looks to me like there is even a lot more angst and concernation about what to do if you have a felony conviction.
.
Me ? I hate seeing things left so open-end'd... not that I can effect any real help-but l can make some suggestions---
.
"Tis' better to light a candle than to curse the darkness"
(........an ancient Chinese proverb?)
.
_________________________________________________
.
Okay Guys,.... Coyote's (ancient) Suggestion, Numeral One-
Spend maybe 20 seconds (like I just did) and Web search: " Attorneys that specialize in amateur radio."
.
Results?...There are several.
.
Spend a little $$ (MC/Visa) and ask for a telephone consult with one (or more) of them. Stop wallering around in this Mud Puddle of Doubt. Get some professional help- you did it when you went to court for your crime- now do it for your hobby.
Personally I long ago stopped being my own legal advocate..let the professionals carry your burden....
.
Hmmmm... Don't like that idea?.. maybe its the $$ ?... I can relate.
,
Coyote Suggestion Numeral Two. Pretend that you just didn't read the question correctly and check the "No" box for felony.
I am being very Very ! facetious here- Don't do that!.. despite all else that is now going on in Washington, you are small fry and they will burn you... Never take the chance on committing Perjury as a convicted Felon.
.
.................Baddd ! Coyote......... Sorry- forgive that my alter ego ever said it..........
.
Suggestion, Numeral Three--
I see that some of the Posters have written quite extensive explanations of their crimes, but more importantly- their rehabilitation. Why not embrace that energy and go for the ham license?...
You don't want to risk it?.. or take the exam etc. only to be rejected?.. Then test the waters first.
What do I mean by that ?...
Apply for a Restrict'd Radio Telephone Permit - They don't require anything more than a fee and filling out a form (I am assuming there is a "felony"question)-- Write out your eloquent explanations, and see what happens. The most you will get is a rejection, but my 99% feeling is you will now have a radio license you can use on your Gulf Stream as you wing your way down to Rio.
.
Or apply for a GMRS license-- all easy-peasy- and has little emotional involvement.
.
That emotional involvement is the kicker... I just went thru a proctological back ground check for my new career move.... Finger prints, references, FBI (and others) criminal records (I have one ancient traffic ticket- disclose it?..You Bet!), character references, bank and credit references-- and on and on "checks"- then I had my iris's scan (yet again) for their biometric recognition- and a DNA sample taken.
If what I've suggested, to some people, seems too outrageous,-- weigh it against THAT... and I am so squeaky clean that dust doesn't settle on me.
.
I have a Fourth suggestion, but some things will have to wait. I am rediscovering my old haunts in DC, - (-tonight its a late dinner date at a favorite Irish restaurant/bar in Eastern Market.)
Good luck Fellows----------
.
.
Lauri
.
.
Hmmmmm...Oh My !,
.
I haven't looked at this topic in nearly 6 months. By this time I would have thought it had reach'd some sort of conclusion- but unhappily I see it hasn't. In fact it looks to me like there is even a lot more angst and concernation about what to do if you have a felony conviction.
.
Me ? I hate seeing things left so open-end'd... not that I can effect any real help-but l can make some suggestions---
.
"Tis' better to light a candle than to curse the darkness"
(........an ancient Chinese proverb?)
.
_________________________________________________
.
Okay Guys,.... Coyote's (ancient) Suggestion, Numeral One-
Spend maybe 20 seconds (like I just did) and Web search: " Attorneys that specialize in amateur radio."
.
Results?...There are several.
.
Spend a little $$ (MC/Visa) and ask for a telephone consult with one (or more) of them. Stop wallering around in this Mud Puddle of Doubt. Get some professional help- you did it when you went to court for your crime- now do it for your hobby.
Personally I long ago stopped being my own legal advocate..let the professionals carry your burden....
.
Hmmmm... Don't like that idea?.. maybe its the $$ ?... I can relate.
,
Coyote Suggestion Numeral Two. Pretend that you just didn't read the question correctly and check the "No" box for felony.
I am being very Very ! facetious here- Don't do that!.. despite all else that is now going on in Washington, you are small fry and they will burn you... Never take the chance on committing Perjury as a convicted Felon.
.
.................Baddd ! Coyote......... Sorry- forgive that my alter ego ever said it..........
.
Suggestion, Numeral Three--
I see that some of the Posters have written quite extensive explanations of their crimes, but more importantly- their rehabilitation. Why not embrace that energy and go for the ham license?...
You don't want to risk it?.. or take the exam etc. only to be rejected?.. Then test the waters first.
What do I mean by that ?...
Apply for a Restrict'd Radio Telephone Permit - They don't require anything more than a fee and filling out a form (I am assuming there is a "felony"question)-- Write out your eloquent explanations, and see what happens. The most you will get is a rejection, but my 99% feeling is you will now have a radio license you can use on your Gulf Stream as you wing your way down to Rio.
.
Or apply for a GMRS license-- all easy-peasy- and has little emotional involvement.
.
That emotional involvement is the kicker... I just went thru a proctological back ground check for my new career move.... Finger prints, references, FBI (and others) criminal records (I have one ancient traffic ticket- disclose it?..You Bet!), character references, bank and credit references-- and on and on "checks"- then I had my iris's scan (yet again) for their biometric recognition- and a DNA sample taken.
If what I've suggested, to some people, seems too outrageous,-- weigh it against THAT... and I am so squeaky clean that dust doesn't settle on me.
.
I have a Fourth suggestion, but some things will have to wait. I am rediscovering my old haunts in DC, - (-tonight its a late dinner date at a favorite Irish restaurant/bar in Eastern Market.)
Good luck Fellows----------
.
.
Lauri
.
.
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