Saia Net

[ak716]

Takes a little playing around with but this site can show you where many microwaves start and stop.

MAPRAD.IO | Radiocomms Register Search Tool

Online app for searching the ACMA Register of Radiocommunications Licences (RRL)

maprad.io

I didn't know that existed. That's awesome! Thanks for sharing that!

 

[APX8000]

@Trbogeek you seem to have an inside knowledge of the system based upon your previous posts, but the praise of same is what has me inquiring.

 

[Trbogeek]

I have talked to some, in the industry, very familiar with the sysyem, as well as conversations regarding public safety on systems other than P25. That being said, hearing how much has gone in to this sysyem, I'm curious how its recived by those actually using it, although the number of agencies moving to it, might be answer enough

 

[Trbogeek]

In a public safety environment, I've only heard from a few users, who I wouldn't call reliable reporters, about how a radio system works for them. Their results were mixed, but I also don't think they understand how it is supposed to work. Regardless, the decision to switch to this system ultimately relies upon the agency's (or company's) administration. The bean counters, the pencil pushers, who are usually so far disconnected from the boots on the ground or in the streets. So, to say that it must be working because more and more are switching doesn't carry much weight, in my opinion. More and more moving to this platform means they have a really good sales end of their business. That isn't to say they don't have a good product to go with it, though.

Again, in my opinion, and my opinion only, I'll be more impressed if/when the TIII system gets up and running and the public safety users migrate over to that. But that also depends on how Saia implements it too. If it's an open standard and not bogged down with proprietary stuff, awesome! I like the concept of a TRS being used in public safety, I'm not in love with the idea right now that it's restricted to Motorola XPR products right now (from what I can tell). But it's their business, and clearly, it's working for them! I think competition is healthy for the end users and, in this case, the taxpayers. An agency could theoretically pick to use the SaiaNet TIII system; however, they find that another manufactures equipment may better suit them or be a better deal. An agency could pick to put Tait, Hytera (if they are still around), Harris, Kenwood, or Motorola on that system for them.

I have ZERO first-hand knowledge of how they are implementing their use of TRBONet, or really any dispatch centers way of implementing all these TG's into their consoles, but going off your previous post, as well as others, the TRBONet console is linked back by microwave. My concern with that is, do they have physical radios on site connected to the console in case of microwave failure? Or does it solely rely on a microwave network back to Saia, and maybe backed up by a public ISP with a VPN or whatever the right terminology is? With my smidge of knowledge of public safety communications and emergency management, I worry about redundancy and being resilient. Going off my logic, I'd love to have the console and everything on site, with physical radios affiliating to a network like this, but I could very well be wrong. I don't know. Maybe I'm on cloud 9 and have no idea what I'm talking about. Or maybe it's just a different viewpoint that is also correct.

I know next to nothing about implementing a TRS, microwave system, system networking, etc. It's way beyond the scope of what I really need to know to be a listener and enthusiast. But it's my two cents.

Seems worst case, dispatchers could always use a radio on the sysyem, even a portable. Hardly the perfect answer, but would keep dispatch in contact with others

 

[APX8000]

I have talked to some, in the industry, very familiar with the sysyem, as well as conversations regarding public safety on systems other than P25. That being said, hearing how much has gone in to this sysyem, I'm curious how its recived by those actually using it, although the number of agencies moving to it, might be answer enough

Why does it seem like you're selling the system with some of your comments. I'd say this, why would any public safety Agency want to share resources with non-public safety users on a private system that is not public safety grade? Several of the areas where the system covers have their own Countywide P25 systems built for those types of comms.

 

[Trbogeek]

Why does it seem like you're selling the system with some of your comments. I'd say this, why would any public safety Agency want to share resources with non-public safety users on a private system that is not public safety grade? Several of the areas where the system covers have their own Countywide P25 systems built for those types of comms.

This would hardly be the place to sell the sysyem, and to whom? The statement

P25 systems built for those types of comms.

Seems an odd statement, without any data to back it. After talking with others, there's nothing different between these sysyems, including interoperability, except pricing.

non-public safety users on a private system that is not public safety grade

On a trunk system, what is the effect of "non-public safety" traffic with public safety? What makes a system public safety grade? What criteria makes it public safety? Ive had this conversation with many, without anyone able to answer it, other than grant money buys P25. It seems to me, before making a broad comment defining public safety grade, one would know how any one system was designed vs another, and the subtitle differences/ similarities between radios. At least thats what i hear

 

[sallen07]

on a private system that is not public safety grade? Several of the areas where the system covers have their own Countywide P25 systems built for those types of comms.

"not public safety grade" because it's not robust enough? Or because it's not P25?

You are correct that *many* of the counties where Saianet exists have their own P25 systems, but Erie County does not, nor does there seem to be a plan to build one. As far as I can tell, all of the public safety agencies that have moved to Saianet are in Erie County.

As a counter-example, Monroe County (where Saianet has a number of customers) does have a P25 system, and that system has numerous subscribers that aren't public safety. Is that OK because it's P25?

 

[ak716]

 

[Trbogeek]

Ha ha

 

[Trbogeek]

"not public safety grade" because it's not robust enough? Or because it's not P25?

You are correct that *many* of the counties where Saianet exists have their own P25 systems, but Erie County does not, nor does there seem to be any plans to build one. As far as I can tell, all of the public safety agencies that have moved to Saianet are in Erie County.

As a counter-example, Monroe County (where Saianet has a number of customers) does have a P25 system, and that system has numerous subscribers that aren't public safety. Is that OK because it's P25?

To your point, having non-public saftey, some are private companies, on a publicly funded system, actually in competition with private two-way dealers, is a questionable practice, and when primarily grant funded, a grose use of public funds. it's difficult to justify a P25 radio in a tow truck or school bus.

 

[GTR8000]

Well, this has turned into quite the lively thread! 🙃

 

[Trbogeek]

Just waiting for the 256 bit encryption debate… ..

 

[ak716]

This would hardly be the place to sell the sysyem, and to whom?

Eh..... I disagree with that. I think you are underestimating the number of radio whackers (can I say that here? Asking for a friend.....) or enthusiasts, that are also firefighters, EMS, police, etc., that are on RR forums. All it takes is "Hey Chief, I think you should really check out this system, I'm reading about it, and it's the next best thing since sliced bread!", send over a good sales guy, and boom, another agency converts. Or, someone who is on here keeps up on the happenings and is close to and a "trusted source" to advise an uninformed decision maker at a public safety agency. While it's wrong to listen to someone just because they read these forums and not have an industry expert's unbiased opinion, I don't think it's far-fetched at all. ****, there are people on this forum trying to figure out how to program a UV-5R to do NAS....

 

[ak716]

Just waiting for the 256 bit encryption debate… ..

The only debate you'll get out of me with encryption is that Basic Privacy is stupid. Not useless, just stupid.

 

[Trbogeek]

The only debate you'll get out of me with encryption is that Basic Privacy is stupid. Not useless, just stupid.

Just wondering why you feel that way?

 

[ak716]

PRE-DETERMINED keys. Need I say more? It's vendor (Motorola) specific. Going back to my stance on non-proprietary equipment or implementation....

 

[Trbogeek]

Eh..... I disagree with that. I think you are underestimating the number of radio whackers (can I say that here? Asking for a friend.....) or enthusiasts, that are also firefighters, EMS, police, etc., that are on RR forums. All it takes is "Hey Chief, I think you should really check out this system, I'm reading about it, and it's the next best thing since sliced bread!", send over a good sales guy, and boom, another agency converts. Or, someone who is on here keeps up on the happenings and is close to and a "trusted source" to advise an uninformed decision maker at a public safety agency. While it's wrong to listen to someone just because they read these forums and not have an industry expert's unbiased opinion, I don't think it's far-fetched at all. ****, there are people on this forum trying to figure out how to program a UV-5R to do NAS....

I would think there would be more "word of mouth" at the various fire company, police chiefs, town highway, etc., meetings.

 

[GTR8000]

Just wondering why you feel that way?

Well for one thing, there are only 255 "keys", and so it would not take someone with a cheap secondhand XPR long to figure out which is in use. I agree with Andy, utterly useless.

 

[ak716]

Well for one thing, there are only 255 "keys", and so it would not take someone with a cheap secondhand XPR long to figure out which is in use. I agree with Andy, utterly useless.

Splitting hairs here.... useful if you don't want scanners to hear it, but STUPID in general.

 

[Trbogeek]

Well for one thing, there are only 255 "keys", and so it would not take someone with a cheap secondhand XPR long to figure out which is in use. I agree with Andy, utterly useless.

256 bit encryption, per managed key, up to 255. Depending on the traffic, encryption may be nessesary. That being said, encryption "can" have negative impact on over all sysyem performance