Sarpy System

Status
Not open for further replies.

761013

Member
Joined
May 23, 2006
Messages
2
Does any know if sarpy is going to ever join the Douglas/Washington mega system? It would have to save money for the taxpayer, right? Then you could hear them further away.

761013
 

Yokoshibu

Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Messages
362
how? why? ... thier system does not cover all of sarpy and whats the point when you can just patch in to any douglass net from the sarpy system?
 

mikeoz

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2003
Messages
45
Location
Nebraska
The Sarpy system just upgraded in the last year to have interoperability with the Douglas county system. From what I hear it will someday get upgraded but this last upgrade should hold them 3-5 years until necessary.
 

NeFire242

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Messages
1,536
Location
Nebraska
If the "Douglas / Interop with God" system is at OPPD tower sites, and since OPPD has tower sites in Murray (Cass), Gretna (Sarpy), Telebasta (Washington), Nashville (Washington), Elkhorn (Douglas), Blair (Washington), etc...

Wouldn't that mean you just need to tell the controller which zone a mobile or TGID should be active in and it would steer the RF off of the tower site? I understand this is mobile coverage only and not portable.

I'm not sure how this would save taxpayers any money. Each county and agency would still have to purchase and provide maintenance to their own portion of the system.

Not to mention how would the counties who are not on 800MHz and still on VHF, or low-band be able to communicate? What would happen if a chase goes outside of the coverage area of this awesome interop system everyone praises? Does OPD have other backup communications in their vehicles? Does Sarpy? Does Pott Co? This would create just more confusion and hassel in the long run.

What about pricing? Would you expect all counties belonging to the system to pay equally or those with the most radios or users on the system? Or charge them on a per-minute or per-radio fee? What if a county wants to use a different set of options or wants different radios in the future? Who supports an agency wishing to make such changes? Are they able to do it, or would this affect the system as a whole?

I shouldn't have my property taxes increased just because the county over from me wants to join some interop system when their communications system works perfectly now and they are able to communicate with the other counties surrounding them. The price of diesel is making it hard enough to make a profit farming, let alone having to pay for something like this and asking for an upgrade every other year. If it works, don't fix it. Use what you have.
 

SCPD

QRT
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
0
Location
Virginia
Most of the funding is from homeland security and if they you an OPPD site OPPD pays for the maint. of the tower site so they can use the system, at least thats how I understand it.

Most of the counties surrounding Omaha are on 800Mhz, or moving to 800Mhz. Saunders and Washington counties I think will keep their low band radios in their squad cars for interop. Saunders still uses their low band frequencies of 39.800.

No everyone can't even talk to each other now on this system. There was a pursuit in Council Bluffs last week and OPD sent two cars to help and they could not patch CBPD into the system even though on the dispatch screen it has them listed. About pursuits most of OPD, about 80-90%, are terminated in about 5-10 minutes because of the third liability law that Nebraska has. Some smaller communities have no pursuit procedure, cause they can't afford the money in case the suspect crashes.

You will never have complete interop with everyone. Low band may work very good in one area while 800Mhz works very well in another.

I say use the existing state owned radio towers and cross band 800Mhz (ICall/Itac), VHF-High Band (VCall/Vtac), UHF (Ucall/Utac), and Nebraska's Low Band (39.9, 39.98, and 39.82). This way everyone in Nebraska can talk to each other.
 

NeFire242

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Messages
1,536
Location
Nebraska
KG4WHM said:
You will never have complete interop with everyone.

Exactly.

The Douglas "Interop" System is a joke. You still have agencies in Douglas County that are not on this. At least Sarpy has everything from school buses to PD and Fire on the same system. You shouldn't worry about "Interop" until you know you can at least talk to the guy from your own county standing next to you at the incident.
 

SCPD

QRT
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
0
Location
Virginia
NeFire242 said:
Exactly.

You still have agencies in Douglas County that are not on this.
The only agency that I know that is NOT on the Douglas County System in the Roads and Omaha DPW, they can be patched through. ALL Police, Fire, and EMS are on this system. OPS is even on it. I even heard some school buses on this system but did not get a chance to write down the talk group. Ralston DPW is on this system, their talk group is listed as a police channel in the database I believe talk group 61.
Is the Douglas System a good system for them yes. Both the dispatchers and the users like it. Will be used by all the agencies in the area no, it cost too much.

I don't know if any of you have read this before, but this shows how the Homeland Security funds were divided up to upgrade communications per county and what the state wants them to do with it.
 
Last edited:

NeFire242

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Messages
1,536
Location
Nebraska
DCEMA has their own repeater too.

See really, everyone in Douglas needs to be on this system. You would think EMA would have had a TG on the system a long time ago and be on 800 so they can respond and talk to the other team players.

Same goes with the Highway departments. There is really no excuse as to why not every dept or agency is on their system. It's been several years now and we're still some how spending money and trying to make things happen and I'm not really convinced I'm seeing any progress. They're in a rush to add other counties like Washington and Pott, when they haven't even added the rest of the agencies in Douglas yet. Sad.

The Omaha Housing Authority should be on the system too, along with say UNO PD. Lincoln has UNL PD on their EDACS system. Why not let NU pay for some of the cost to this system as well?

People want interop but not everyone is even on the same page. A patch is only a temporary solution to a permanent problem.
 

SCPD

QRT
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
0
Location
Virginia
The only thing I have heard on the EMA's repeater, If I am thinking of the right one, was data burst for the tornado sirens. They may just use the common channels on the system and not have their own but still use the system, I don't know.

The reason why the Highway depts are NOT on there $$$$$$$$.
My main thing is they can only patch through one agency and that is Sarpy. Even though Washington, Pott, Council Bluffs, NSP, Dodge?, and maybe Saunders are listed on the dispatch council to be able to patch them into the system. All the above mention agencies, except for Sarpy their patches do NOT work.

Here is one instance where the system worked. Elkhorn was in pursuit after some burglary suspects. They went East bound on Dodge St in the West bound lane. They terminated the pursuit but they found them and started the pursuit again. The dispatch had County, Northwest, Southwest, and Southeast all patch together and it work good.

Here is an instance when the system did not work. NSP got into a foot pursuit in Ralston. The County dispatcher did not know about it unit I called him and told him about it. I could hear NSP on my ICOM 706 and I was telling him what NSP was saying. He had no clue. The officers on the ground could not talk to each other on the radio even though they were a couple of feet apart.
Just to clarify the dispatcher in both instances is a friend of mine.
 

NeFire242

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Messages
1,536
Location
Nebraska
Why wouldn't dispatch just have all of those units go to a Common1, Event1, or City-Wide for the pursuit if it's going to involve that many units?

Last time I ever heard a patch from OPD to CBPD was a long time ago when they had chansed some guy into Iowa Western CC on the East end of Council Bluffs and Abel1 had followed the car there.

As far as NSP goes... DC Communications should have a low-band radio, again for interop purposes right?
 

SCPD

QRT
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
0
Location
Virginia
Douglas County Communications can get on Low Band. They do have 39.9 and 39.98. They reason they patched them together is so the officer does not have to change channels in the middle of the pursuit. They were going around 70 MPH.
 

NeFire242

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Messages
1,536
Location
Nebraska
Their radio is a piece of equipment and work tool, much like their gun. They should be properly trained to use all of their work tools effectively and efficiently. If this means an officer must change to a different talk group, then so be it. The officer’s safety could be in jeopardy if they fail to follow directions from command or dispatch such as just this, changing talk-groups during an incident.

I understand they do this for simplistic ease, but they must realize this will not always be the case and they should not rely on the fact dispatch will always have a patch to accommodate this type of situation in the future.
 

Yokoshibu

Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Messages
362
why not? is the patch going to disapear?

right now I think sarpy is in a great position and so is douglass... interoperability is always going to be a concern and you will never have everyone on the same system.....

IE marcs in ohio or Virginia's state fleet system... you are always going to have agencies that can not join on for some $ reason or other concern IE military installations or federal faculties such as the fbi... however patching will always be around and will be an available tool.

even if every state created thier own statewide system you will still have an issue of agencies on state borders having probs. and the simple solution will be a patch.

to expect every system to be tied together and have a radio with 100 + channel options to patch or connect to a desired region is just plain nutz... If I were doing over 80 mph and had to flick through the channels on the radio to try and find the right district i wouldnt bother cause whats more important at that time? saftey first.

simple solution.... a radio with 1 button that goes to a special event net that the dispatcher can patch everyone involved into... why? simplicity. remove the workload from the officers wether or not the dispatcher has the knowledge to do that is another story.
 
Last edited:

761013

Member
Joined
May 23, 2006
Messages
2
I seen now why Sarpy will stay on it owns for now. Only time will tell, there are some new 800Mhz freq for Cass though too.

761013
 

NeFire242

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Messages
1,536
Location
Nebraska
Yes the license is, QWET706.
( http://www.radioreference.com/modules.php?name=RR&action=fcc&cs=WQET706 )

866.4000 (Plattsmouth)
868.3000 (Plattsmouth)
868.6250 (Gretna)
868.8750 (Murray)

From what it looks like on the license it will be P25 conventional 800 MHz.

I would venture to say that Cass Sheriff and Plattsmouth Police are going to be on this new 800 stuff as they are the only two law enforcement agencies in Cass. This would free up two VHF freqs then and perhaps they will have a department like Murray who is still on low-band migrate to VHF and at least be able to talk to the other fire departments next to them within the county.
 

SCPD

QRT
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
0
Location
Virginia
Otoe county also has some 800Mhz frequencies. Looks like they are going to be P25 Conv. also.
 

realgeo

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 11, 2004
Messages
471
Location
Murray, NE
Washington County and ORIN

Howdy, everyone! I am new poster/contributor to this system, but have been a listener to trunked radio systems for quite some time.

To correct an ealier post - Washington county has already deployed their "cell" of the Omaha/Douglas county system. In fact, a trip to Fort Calhoun yesterday confirmed that TG 2001 is being used, on a limited basis, as a countywide dispatch TG, and 2003 is being used on an intermittent basis.

The site number for Washington county is 0144h-0113, according to my BDC396T.

I have also done a recent roadtrip to each of the OPPD tower locations, to determine control channel assignments. The ONLY site ID I haven't been able to confirm is 0144h-0110 - I have 0102 through 0109, 0111, and 0112. 0101 is the Douglas county "cell". It should be noted that my research revealed the total lack of a control channel at the Telbasta and Nashville sites - none whatsoever. BTW - if you visit Telbasta, make sure you don't end up staying in the "fenced in area" to the west of CR7 / CR16! :*)

Regarding Sarpy County, it will be at least 5 years before they can be in any position to fully upgrade their system to the Astro 6.3 platform that ORIN is running. Sarpy is current running some P25 and P25 ENCrypted TG's, but the vast majority is still analog. Money to do a "truckload" upgrade of radio hardware is at the heart of the issue since some of the hardware must be replaced, not upgraded.

Best wishes,
RG
 
Last edited:

realgeo

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 11, 2004
Messages
471
Location
Murray, NE
WQET706 license

Good afternoon, once again.

The WQET706 license for Cass county was granted back in April.

The Murray site will be co-located on a tower owned by RSA-1 L.P., out of Emerson, IA. This tower is located just to the south of the OPPD tower in the same area.

The Gretna site will be located on the KPTM Channel 42 television tower, just to the southeast of Gretna.

The Plattsmouth channels/site will be located on the single tower of former radio station KOTD, 1020AM, north of Plattsmouth.

Finally, the FCC records don't indicate it, but there will be a fourth site, built upon a yet-to-be-erected tower planned for the Murdock, NE area.

In my opinion, building this system and not integrating with the current ORIN network from the start is a move in the wrong direction and will cost more money to do so down the road.

Cass county is currently working with most Fire/EMS departments in the county to get them moved off of their legacy 39.9 systems and onto the 154.385 countywide Fire/EMS communication and paging repeater.

The only hold-outs at this point are Murray (running on 39.9), Union/Nehawka (running on an unlicensed UHF repeater), Weeping Water (running on a UHF repeater), and possibly Eagle, which may still be operating on their VHF repeater.

Real Geo
 

NeFire242

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Messages
1,536
Location
Nebraska
Nehawka utilizes CCFire. Eagle is dispatched by and talks to Lancaster County, just like Alvo.
 

NeFire242

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Messages
1,536
Location
Nebraska
realgeo said:
Sarpy is current running some P25 and P25 ENCrypted TG's, but the vast majority is still analog.

If they are running some TGIDs as digital, then they have the capabilities to make all of them digital. It wouldn't be a hardware or money issue. People were complaining to the 800MHz board that they weren't able to hear all of the traffic because again, just because you help pay for the system doesn't mean you are entitled to listen, etc.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top