APX Site Roaming P25 P2

[KVL3000]

Ok, this is gonna be an odball question but here we go:

I want to be able to roam between 2 sites on a trunked system (I travel a lot between the 2 coverage areas) EX: listening to TG 1 on Site 1, but I drive out of coverage of Site 1, but into coverage of Site 2, whic simulcasts TG1. How would I go about doing this while also maintaining NAS?

 

[KevinC]

Easy answer. you don't. If the radio had to a)look at the CC and b)also look at adjacent sites you'd miss calls.

Use 2 separate systems and do fingertip roaming.

 

[GTR8000]

Set the trunked system for SmartZone. It'll roam on its own. Just make sure you're not setting any site preference in the personalities.

 

[KVL3000]

Easy answer. you don't. If the radio had to a)look at the CC and b)also look at adjacent sites you'd miss calls.

Use 2 separate systems and do fingertip roaming.

Its also to grab TG's that are active on one site and not the other

 

[KevinC]

Set the trunked system for SmartZone. It'll roam on its own. Just make sure you're not setting any site preference in the personalities.

Are you sure that works in NAS? I don't think it will check adjacent sites.

 

[GTR8000]

Are you sure that works in NAS? I don't think it will check adjacent sites.

Why wouldn't it? The radio is decoding the control channel and all relevant messages when idle. If you leave the coverage area of Site 1, the radio will start looking through the list of control channels programmed in that trunked system, and will eventually find Site 2.

Oh yeah, in addition to setting it to SmartZone, make sure that you program Site 1 and Site 2's control channels into the system's list.

 

[KVL3000]

Use 2 separate systems and do fingertip roaming.

I would do that, but the radio does something odd I can't find any info about. whenever you pick that system, it trys to transmit 2 little blips, I have no clue if they are afilliation packets, ut thats also why I always program and test into a dummy load

EDIT: it only does this on some systems, not all, and obviously those dont stay programmed in the radio

 

[KevinC]

Why wouldn't it? The radio is decoding the control channel and all relevant messages when idle. If you leave the coverage area of Site 1, the radio will start looking through the list of control channels programmed in that trunked system, and will eventually find Site 2.

Oh yeah, in addition to setting it to SmartZone, make sure that you program Site 1 and Site 2's control channels into the system's list.

I'll buy that. Just keep in mind since it's not checking the adjacent channel list it will hold that site until the BER reaches 4%.

 

[GTR8000]

I would do that, but the radio does something odd I can't find any info about. whenever you pick that system, it trys to transmit 2 little blips, I have no clue if they are afilliation packets, ut thats also why I always program and test into a dummy load

EDIT: it only does this on some systems, not all, and obviously those dont stay programmed in the radio

Uh yeah, that's no good. If the radio is transmitting, it's trying to register. You really need to figure out exactly what is wrong with your programming and fix is ASAP before you a) cause harmful interference to an operating system and/or b) get your APX turned into a very expensive paperweight.

At no point ever should a properly setup NAS try to register or affiliate.

 

[KVL3000]

I'll buy that. Just keep in mind since it's not checking the adjacent channel list it will hold that site until the BER reaches 4%.

the good news is the sites are placed to where as soon as one site drops, the other comes in, almost no overlap

 

[KVL3000]

Uh yeah, that's no good. If the radio is transmitting, it's trying to register. You really need to figure out exactly what is wrong with your programming and fix is ASAP before you a) cause harmful interference to an operating system and/or b) get your APX turned into a very expensive paperweight.

At no point ever should a properly setup NAS try to register or affiliated.

It's strange, I've done NAS dozens of times, and the same way every time. It's just some systems it tries to pull that. All Hail the Dummy Load! Preventer of paperweights and jail

 

[buddrousa]

It should not transmit that sounds like it is trying to affiliate?

 

[GTR8000]

It's strange, I've done NAS dozens of times, and the same way every time. It's just some systems it tries to pull that. All Hail the Dummy Load! Preventer of paperweights and jail

I've seen that happen once with a specific setup, I just don't recall exactly what it was. I believe it had to do with some combination of setting coverage to Disabled (aka SmartNet), and the Site ID being set to something other than what the radio was actually receiving. Even in NAS (sitting on a conventional frequency), the radio attempted to register. I think it was doing so because it was expecting Site 5 but was set to Site 1 in the codeplug. Or vice versa, something like that. I believe setting the coverage back to SmartZone fixed the issue.

 

[KVL3000]

I've seen that happen once with a specific setup, I just don't recall exactly what it was. I believe it had to do with some combination of setting coverage to Disabled (aka SmartNet), and the Site ID being set to something other than what the radio was actually receiving. Even in NAS (sitting on a conventional frequency), the radio attempted to register. I think it was doing so because it was expecting Site 5 but was set to Site 1 in the codeplug. Or vice versa, something like that. I believe setting the coverage back to SmartZone fixed the issue.

Will I have a problem if it's not smartzone?

 

[GTR8000]

Will I have a problem if it's not smartzone?

Frankly, you already have a problem if your radio "trys to transmit 2 little blips", which is a sure sign of it attempting to register. You need to get that sorted out before you worry about the radio roaming between sites.

 

[KVL3000]

Frankly, you already have a problem if your radio "trys to transmit 2 little blips", which is a sure sign of it attempting to register. You need to get that sorted out before you worry about the radio roaming between sites.

I meant will it prevent me from recieving alltogether? The Tx issue is on a system i dont care too much about, so i can live without it

 

[slobonmycob]

Ok, this is gonna be an odball question but here we go:

I want to be able to roam between 2 sites on a trunked system (I travel a lot between the 2 coverage areas) EX: listening to TG 1 on Site 1, but I drive out of coverage of Site 1, but into coverage of Site 2, whic simulcasts TG1. How would I go about doing this while also maintaining NAS?

You need to check WACN-ID roaming and have only ONE trunked system/personality programmed into the radio. This won't work instantly as you will need to drive around to allow the radio to connect to the system.

Oh yeah, in addition to setting it to SmartZone, make sure that you program Site 1 and Site 2's control channels into the system's list.

Again, with WACN-ID roaming that's not necessary. Only program one system/personality and you're good to go.

 

[GTR8000]

Again, with WACN-ID roaming that's not necessary. Only program one system/personality and you're good to go.

Setting the coverage to SmartZone requires only a single system to be programmed. The radio will bounce between any sites of the same SysID and WACN as signal strength determines. Nowhere in any of my posts did I suggest or indicate that multiple trunked systems need to be setup in the codeplug; just the opposite, that's the whole point of SmartZone coverage.

Using Inter-WACN roaming only complicates matters, and is intended for roaming between systems of differing WACNs, not a single zone multi-site system.

PS - There is no "WACN-ID" roaming setting in APX CPS, so I'm not sure what exactly you're referring to. I can only assume you're referring to Inter-WACN roaming coverage type.

 

[slobonmycob]

Setting the coverage to SmartZone requires only a single system to be programmed. The radio will bounce between any sites of the same SysID and WACN as signal strength determines. Nowhere in any of my posts did I suggest or indicate that multiple trunked systems need to be setup in the codeplug; just the opposite, that's the whole point of SmartZone coverage.

I mis-spoke, I was referring to "Full Spectrum Control Channel Scan" please don't be upset, I wasn't trying to undermine you. We're essentially talking about the same thing, I'm sorry for that.

Oh yeah, in addition to setting it to SmartZone, make sure that you program Site 1 and Site 2's control channels into the system's list.

I'm interested to hear more on this though, my radio has been doing a fantastic job at hearing TG's across different site's (different simulcast footprints) and I only programmed the control channel for the site of where I live.

 

[GTR8000]

Full Spectrum Control Channel Scan is horribly inefficient, I do not recommend enabling that option.

Let's clarify that for the purposes of this discussion, we're dealing with a single system of the same SysID and WACN, with a single zone (RFFS), and multiple sites within that same zone. Other configurations like Harris that put adjacent sites into a different RFFS are a whole other topic.

If you set coverage to SmartZone, the radio will be capable of roaming between sites within the same zone (RFFS), either by looking at the list of control channels you've programmed into the system, or by making use of the adjacent site status broadcast messages over the control channel. Since most people know which sites they want to receive, they should make sure those site's control channel frequencies are programmed into the system list. However, even in the absence of those frequencies, as long as the system is broadcasting adjacent site status messages, the radio should be aware of the control channels of adjacent sites.

Note that when in Non-Affiliate Scan mode (NAS), the radio will try to cling to the first control channel it finds in the list that it can decode, and will remain on that site until the bitter end. Only when the signal gets so weak that it can no longer decode that control channel will it move along to another site.

So while perhaps not ideal if you're in an area where you need the radio to jump back and forth between sites fairly often and don't want it dwelling on a weaker site...for the purposes of @KG5PKX's original question, where he completely leaves the coverage of Site 1 and drives into Site 2's coverage area, SmartZone with both site's control channels programmed into the system's list will work for him.

If you want to make sure the radio stays glued to a particular site, then you can muck around with creating multiple SmartNet (coverage = disabled) sites. Or if you want the radio to basically find any control channel that's out there, go ahead and leave Full Spectrum Control Channel Scan enabled, but understand that you're making the radio less efficient in finding sites with that option enabled.