Some disturbing news....

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T-Santon

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Many people confuse "digital" and "encrypted." Unless he's a tech, I wouldn't get too worked up.


"Many" might be an understatement....My family is full of Law Enforcement Officers, and they were all puzzled when I told them I could listen to them on the Lake County System regularly. I even had to explain the difference between digital and encyption to one of my uncles.


So unless you heard it from a tech (like rdale said), I wouldn't be too worried about it....I'm not trying to bash cops or anything, but most of them have NO IDEA how their radios even work. Sure, they can push to talk, and they probably know how to go to a TAC channel...But don't expect much else.
 

ONA73

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T-Santon is right I know a few lake county officers and they told that illegally monitoring the tac channels and 1a channels was a felony.
Then I showed them how they were not encrypted and they recanted what they said.
 

jerk

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that really great, just throw it in their face and prove to them they are wrong.

But don't be surprised when and fi they do go to encryption. Think... have some common sense. And don't think they can't get encryption, it fairly easy with these newer radios.
Keeping silent while listening is sometimes the best policy, but scanner people are their own worst enemies. They have "prove" how smart they are.

In my area county law enforcement is encrypted because of people with scanners. And they radio in the fire truck (and ambulances) is capable of it as well, just a simple programming change.

You could really make it easy, call up the police chief and tell him and show him your scanner and he can send out a memo so no more officers mistake digital versus encryption. :roll:
 

rdale

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Amen brother... Unless they are sending out info that could endanger lives because they think it's encrypted -- it's best to keep that quiet. Nothing good comes out of it.
 
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Amen brother... Unless they are sending out info that could endanger lives because they think it's encrypted -- it's best to keep that quiet. Nothing good comes out of it.


I for one am appreciative of the information that can be found here. Of course upgrading to newer scanners and software always helps too. The old adage I like to live by is "sometimes inaction is the best action" which can give you unintended results that normally have a good long term pay back.
 

Dubbin

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I sure hope my scanner feed doesn't have anything to do with them talking about encryption.
 

mdulrich

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If they are going to encryption, I'm sure they are more concerned about the scanners than your feed.

Mike
 

AMDXP

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I remembered one of my wife's cousins is on Findlay PD. I sent him a message on FB last night. This is his reply:

"its going to be completely encrypted"

I made sure in the question I asked him if there wasn't any confusion between digital and encryption.

I no longer believe that there is any question. It looks like PD will be completely encrypted.
 

rdale

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And so does $75 and a trip to Radio Shack. If people REALLY want to hear and use PD information, that's what they are going to do.
 

AMDXP

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May not be so cut and dry

I was talking to my contact with the Sheriff's office today here's a couple points he made in regards to Findlay PD going Encrypted:


  • From what he was told they are not going to be completely encrypted, only a few channels(i.e. talk-groups).
  • They have not liked the fact that the SO can listen in on a scanner at the dispatch office. As a matter of fact he added for some reason they'd rather the sheriff's department not be able to listen in at all.
So it sounds like if they do go completely encrypted if it's to spite the SO for whatever reason.

After this conversation I would wager there is more to this than what a few of us have been able to get from those within FPD.

Also rumor from a Findlay PD Officer (he stated it was only rumor) is that FPD will switch sometime around mid-March.

If I happen to hear anything more I will be sure to pass it along her. The truth will come out when the switch is made, that's for sure.
 

JD72305

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I talked to yet, another officer, from the department and he simply stated that he has no clue as to what was going on and he has been there for quite a long time and a good friend of mine there. It seems like the brass of this department is the one really pushing for this move and a majority of the officers have no clue what's going to happen with this. It is good to know that they were doing tests non-encrypted as that does shine a ray of hope on this.

The officer I was talking to has agreed with me about going 100% encrypted (if they do) that it just is not needed on every channel. He was very helpful with it though. I won't try to go to political here, and maybe someone can shed light on this, but from everything I have read, encryption keys... on every radio... every talk group... is very costly correct? And maybe the are procuring funds from grants and things of that nature to pay for this but that is going to only cover for a little bit of time I would assume. So what ails me in this is they are wanting to do this for "Officer Safety" but they were going to lay off X amount of officers just late last year.. I would just think the money could be spent wiser. Just my .02.

Lets hope we can get more information soon. :)
 

rdale

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nike - that's a talkgroup from the MARCS system, not a frequency.
 

AMDXP

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I understand that. But under what County did he hear it under. That is what I wanting to know.

It would be Hancock County, since he said they were testing "Findlay PD Main"

Also Findlay received several grants from the Federal Government that's allowing them to make this upgrade to their radio system citywide.

Also MARCS is county independent. Yes, there are talk-groups(channels) that are assigned to a particular agency, be it a city, county, township.
The way that MARCS is designed allows for a user to travel to any part of the state and still communicate with other users on the same talkgroup.
 

ATFD286

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Hot off the press!!!!! Findlay PD will be encrypted. Here is the article in the paper.

City police to silence radio traffic


By JORDAN CRAVENS and JOY BROWN

staff Writers

City police are planning on keeping their live radio communications a secret.

When Findlay joins the state's Multi-Agency Radio Communications System, likely within the next month, the police department plans to encrypt radio communications of "everyday operations" so they can't be understood on radio scanners.

It's an effort to improve officer safety and to prevent criminals from using scanners to avoid arrest, according to Sgt. Randy Digby of the Findlay Police Department.

"Everyone in 'scannerland' hears everything," said Findlay Safety Director Jim Barker. "A couple of investigations have been compromised because of people knowing what the police department is doing."

Digby said all general dispatch communications will be encoded. People with scanners will hear a squawking noise and will not be able to understand what is being said.

The planned encryption has Hancock County Sheriff Michael Heldman concerned, given that the state radio system was designed to allow multiple agencies to be able to communicate better.

"If they are encrypted, we won't be able to hear what they are doing," Heldman said.

Speaking hypothetically, he said a dangerous situation could arise if a deputy pulls over a person for speeding, not knowing that city police have identified the person as a suspect fleeing from an armed robbery.

The suspect could have a weapon and "it could impact an officer's life" if that is not known when the deputy makes the traffic stop, Heldman said.

When the city made plans to purchase the radio system, Barker said, having partial encryption capability was something the city wanted. But the police department indicated it wanted full encryption capability, he said.

"I guess it's going to be the chief's call" about going full encryption, Barker said. "That's a decision I would leave up to him (Acting Police Chief Greg Horne)."

Mayor Pete Sehnert, a former police officer, said he was not aware of the police department's decision to go to total encryption.

"There's always been scannerland out there, and people usually find a way to get the (closed) frequencies anyway," Sehnert said. "The only need for encryption would be for specific operations" such as those by the police department's vice-narcotics unit.

Findlay Fire Chief Tom Lonyo said his department will not encrypt its communications.

"From day to day, we operate without encryption, except on very rare occasions. The occasions where we'd want to use it would be very slim or minimal. And the cost was too substantial for us to really bother with," Lonyo said.

When asked about the additional cost of having the full encryption capability, Barker said, "I'd have to go way back through the radio stuff to see how much."

Hancock County is already up and running with the new state radio system, and Heldman said his department will only switch on the system's encryption capability for highly sensitive cases, like if a SWAT team is called to a scene or for drug investigations.

"But for everyday use, I don't see any reason for it to be encrypted," he said.

Both Digby and Heldman said citizens listening to the scanner have provided useful information to police about suspects.

But the bottom line, Digby said, is officer safety.

There have been several cases where the broadcast of police communications over scanners has put the welfare of officers in jeopardy, Digby said.

In 1999, an emotionally-upset man on the city's east side threatened to shoot himself and police. The police Emergency Response Team responded and surrounded his home. They later learned the man, who had a rifle, was monitoring a scanner and knew where officers were positioned on his property, Digby said.

Officers ended up shooting the man when he tried to flee, Digby said.

The new police radios will be set to encryption mode unless a situation arises where there is a need to communicate with multiple agencies, Digby said.

Such was the case with the 2007 flood.

"If something like that would come up, all an officer would have to do is turn the encryption off," he said. "It's a touch of a button."

A supervisor or dispatcher would advise when turning off the encryption should be done, he said.

Sheriff Heldman said if his office needed its communication to be encrypted, it would switch to a different frequency to do that.

Both Barker and Digby said the police encryption will not impact getting information to the public.

"It's not trying to hide things. When we do the encryption, if something happens that we need to notify the media and the public, somebody will have to tell a dispatcher or have someone get the word out," Barker said.

Police will provide information through press releases to the media.

All police radio communication, even if it is encrypted, is public record and can be obtained later through records requests, Digby said.

He said there are no laws that prohibit the use of encryption by public safety agencies, and said more agencies are beginning to encode some or all of their communication.

Editorial Page Editor Steve Dillon contributed to this story.

Cravens: 419-427-8422, Send an e-mail to Jordan Cravens


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