Sticky Thread for MilAir II

[TinEar]

Mike, both those tail numbers come up as 79th Fighter Squadron on Scramble. But so did a pair in the last CAP when we knew they were from the 77th because that's where they said they were from. I didn't hear their first refueling when they came into the CAP so didn't hear if they gave their squadron association. I guess it's possible that all the interflight freqs got scrambled but that's not at the top of my list for an explanation.

1723: Guess they refueled with TANKER 05 while I was away from radios...PITMAN 33 reporting 8,000 pounds of fuel remaining and tanks feeding...34 has 8,700 pounds and feeding...260.9
This pair isn't talking to each other on interflight. Anything they say, the're saying it on HUNTRESS' freq.
1749: PITMAN 33 heading for the tanker...260.9...33 says he's having a problem with his radar and asks HUNTRESS for a BRA to the tanker.
1754: PITMAN 33 makes contact with the tanker's boom...tanker asks his unit affilitation...33 tells him they're from the 77th Fighter Squadron...TANKER 05 says he's from the 77th Air Refueling Squadron and chuckles about it....228.9 (This makes TANKER 05 from Seymour Johnson AFB NC...the 77th is "The Totin' Tigers" - a winged tiger on their unit patch. The 77th Fighter Squadron at Shaw are "The Gamblers" and have 4 sevens separated by an ace on their patch - 77A77.)
1757: PITMAN 33 off the boom...228.9
1758: PITMAN 34 heading for the tanker...260.9
1759: PITMAN 34 changes to boom freq, reports he's 5 miles off the tanker's left wing...tanker clears him to rejoin...228.9

1804: PITMAN 34 finally at the tanker and is cleared in to the boom...228.9
1804: PITMAN 33 asks HUNTRESS for a weather update for Shaw...260.9 (Gets it at 1806)
1808: PITMAN 34 off the boom after taking 5700 pounds...they wish each other a good flight and a Merry Christmas...228.9
1809: PITMAN 34 established back in the CAP at FL 220...260.9
1811: TANKER 05, while on 135.525, is sent to 126.55 for radio checks and gets them all (apparently from different transmitter sites)...goes back to 135.525 and reports that info.
1816: Fuel reports...33 has 11,000 pounds, 34 has 11,700 pounds...both report wing tanks feeding...260.9
Depending on when this pair is relieved, they should need one more small fuel stop, a couple of thousand pounds each before heading home...assuming their replacements come in by 1900.
1831: PITMAN 35/36 on their way...with ZDC-Blackstone 235.625 and then to ZDC-Brooke 327.0
1831: PITMAN 35/36 using 139.925 for interflight...another new one for us...at least one they haven't used in the past while in the CAP...no preset number used for it yet. (Edit: I'm wrong...it has been used inthe past..it's their V-12 preset...just found it in my reference book)
1836: PITMAN 36 reports timber sweet [female]...PITMAN 35 reports timber coarse...(talking about their Link 16)...139.925
1838: PITMAN 35, while on 327.0, asks ZDC-Brooke for a VHF freq and get 126.875 and change there and check in with ZDC.
1839: PITMAN 35 checking in with HUNTRESS as fragged...260.9...ask for a squawk on the tanker...get 5346...TANKER 05 asks for squawks for new players from HUNTRESS and gets them.
1841: TANKER 06 checking in with HUNTRESS...260.9
1841: PITMAN 35/36 check in with Guard Dog at FL 250...135.525
1844: PITMAN 35/36 heading for the tanker...still 30 miles away....they are talking on 260.9 and TANKER 05 is answering them on 228.9...finally they get together on 228.9...now 19 miles to the south of the tanker
1847: PITMAN 35 cleared to the boom, 36 cleared to hang out off the left wing of TANKER 05...228.9
1848: PITMAN 33/34 have 9000 and 9700 pounds of fuel remaining...might not have to refuel if they get out of the CAP in the next 10-15 minutes.
1849: PITMAN 35 gives his tail as 94-4044 and 36 is 94-4040 and says simply they're from the 20th FW...228.9
1849: TANKER 06 checks in with HUNTRESS again...260.9
1850: PITMAN 35 disconnects from the boom after taking 1900 pounds...is sending 36 in to topoff and then 35 will go back for more...228.9
1851: PITMAN 33 to Guard Dog to say they're 5 minutes from RTB. Wants them to work up his clearance back to Shaw...135.525
1851: HUNTRESS had PITMAN 33 go to 139.15 for a radio check...nada there...260.9
1854: PITMAN 36 off the boom after taking 5200 pounds...228.9
1854: PITMAN 33/34 sent down to 14,000 feet...they're heading south...260.9
1855: PITMAN 37 [female] established in the CAP with HUNTRESS...260.9 (35 taking on more fuel)
1856: PITMAN 33/34 sent to freq 125.65 (Potomac TRACON) for comms while on 135.525
This is differnt...PITMAN using VHF to exit the area
1858: PITMAN 35 finishes his topoff, goes back to the CAP and establishes in the south...260.9

1900: TANKER 05 reports at FL 240 and RTB to Guard Dog...135.525...cleared direct Tar River.
1901: PITMAN 33/34 switch to "FMT, Net 1" but I don't find them on any of the FMT 300 mHz freqs I have programmed...different FMT net apparently.
1903: PITMAN 33/34 say to go to V-10 and go to 140.375 as expected to chat on their way home
1903: PITMAN 33/34 with ZDC-Brooke 327.0
1905: TANKER 05 handed off from Guard Dog to a VHF ZDC freq...135.525 (Not following him)
1907: PITMAN 33/34 handed off to ZDC-Blackstone 235.625 where they check in at FL 240.

And so...by 1905 the PITMAN 33/34 flight is heading home on ZDC freqs and 140.375 (V-10) for chat. PITMAN 35/36 are established in the CAP with HUNTRESS and are using 139.925 (V-12) for chat. TANKER 06 is flying the track as the refueler and we're all settled down until the end of the CAP at 2300.

2025: PITMAN 36 heading to the tanker...260.9...PITMAN 35 says he'll go about 10 minutes later after she's done....36 reports radar contact with the tanker.
2030: PITMAN 36 to the boom freq with TANKER 06 who is at FL 250 awaiting her arrival...228.9
2034: PITMAN 36 confirms she's from the 77th FS at Shaw and again gives her tail number 94-4040...she's cleared to contact the boom...228.9 ...TANKER 06 tells PITMAN 36 that the boom interphone is inop...says when he turns it on he only gets a loud hum. (This confirms for the umpteenth time there is such as thing as a boom intercom/interphone which we cannot hear when they use it. I've been assured by several people there is no such thing as a boom interphone. I continue to differ with them.)
Bold is specifically for those people telling me it doesn't exist. Everyone else pay no attention.
2038: PITMAN 36 completes refueling...took 7,000 pounds....228.9
2038: PITMAN 36 back to HUNTRESS...260.9
2038: PITMAN 35 requests the boom...says 36 has the CAP...260.9
2040: PITMAN 35 says he's pushing to boom freq...260.9...and contacts TANKER 06 on boom, reports nose cold and is on 2992 (standard at 18,000 feet and above) barometric pressure setting.....228.9
2043: PITMAN 35 confirms tail as 94-4044...cleared to contact the boom...228.9
2044: TANKER 06 says he's from Bangor, Maine...also says he can hear PITMAN 35 on the boom intercom but no doubt 35 can't hear him....35 confirms that...228.9 (And another confirmation of a boom interphone!!)
2046: PITMAN 35 tells TANKER 06 they'll need one more topoff - about 2000 pounds each after this refueling...228.9
TANKER 04 -- PA-ANG Pittsburgh
TANKER 05 -- Seymour Johnson AFB
TANKER 06 -- ME-ANG Bangor
2036: PITMAN 35 disconnects from the boom...says he has a full load and will see the tanker in about an hour...228.9....reports back in the CAP to HUNTRESS...260.9

2200: PITMAN 35 heading to the tanker...says this will be the last refueling...has radar and then visual contact with the tanker...changing to the boom freq, nose is cold...260.9
2201: PITMAN 35 to TANKER 06 on boom freq...says he'll take a topoff and this will be last time...3 miles at TANKER 06's six o'clock position...228.9
2204: PITMAN 35 cleared to the boom...wants a topoff...says it should take about 4500 pounds...228.9
2207: PITMAN 35 disconnects after taking 4500 pounds, wishes the boomer a Merry Christmas...228.9
2207: PITMAN 35 back in the CAP established below FL 220 in the north...36 climbing to FL 230...260.9
2209: PITMAN 36 going to the tanker...260.9
2210: PITMAN 36 10 miles from the tanker at his three o'clock position after switching to boom freq...228.9
2214: PITMAN 36 established 2000 feet in trail with the tanker...6 clears her in to the boom...228.9
2216: PITMAN 36 connects to the boom...228.9
2218: PITMAN 36 disconnects from the boom after taking 5200 pounds...228.9....goes back to HUNTRESS...260.9
2239: PITMAN asks HUNTRESS to relay to their maintenance that 35 is Code 2 for Link 16 and 36 is Code 1...260.9
2241: TANKER 06 calls Guard Dog...request RTB in 10 minutes...135.525
2244: TANKER 06 tells HUNTRESS he's all set to go...PITMAN 35 says they're good with gas...260.9
2245: TANKER 06 asks for clearance back to Bangor (BGR) from Guard Dog...says their first fix will be DIMBY...ready to go in 5 minutes...135.525
DIMBY = 41-11-54.540N / 074-37-25.270W (New Jersey)
2247: TANKER 06 cleared out of the CAP by HUNTRESS...260.9...goes to Guard Dog for his clearance...cleared direct Bangor...and he's gone to handoff freq 134.325...comes back and says no one home on that freq and is sent right back there (134.325 = ZNY-Westminster Sector 9)...135.525
2250: PITMAN 35 asks HUNTRESS if they'll be cleared off as fragged...requests to start working his clearance...260.9
2250: PITMAN 35 calls Potomac...says he'll be ready to RTB in 10 minutes...135.525
2251: PITMAN 35 says they'll join up in 5 minutes, RTB in 8...135.525
2255: PITMAN 35/36 get in one mile trail preparing to leave...260.9
2257: Preparing to leave the CAP, PITMAN 35 reports 8800 pounds of fuel remaining, 36 has 9700 pounds...HUNTRESS clears them to RTB and they wish HUNTRESS a Merry Christmas...260.9
2258: PITMAN 35 to Guard Dog to pick up clearance back to Shaw...climbing to FL 240...cleared to Nottingham and then Raleigh-Durham...135.525
2259: PITMAN 35 requesting 2 miles front to back, non-standard formation...135.525

And the CAP is done for tonight...should resume at 0600 tomorrow morning.

2301: PITMAN 35/36 handed off to ZDC-Brooke 327.0 where they check in at FL 240
2301: PITMAN 35 tells 36 to go to V-12 and they check in on 139.925
2302: PITMAN 35 reports pushing it up to .95 mach...139.925...35 says he should get home with 3.0 (meaning 3000 pounds of fuel remaining)...36 says she'll make it with 4.6...36 says she's got the duty again tomorrow night....35 says he has it Christmas night
2304: PITMAN 35 tells ZDC-Brooke they'd like to stay 2 mile, non-standard if possible...they're cleared direct Raleigh...327.0
2309: PITMAN 35/36 handed off to ZDC-Blackstone 235.625 where they check in at FL 240
2312: Fuel checks...35 has 6900 pounds...36 has 7900 pounds and still feeding...139.925
2317: PITMAN 35 requesting direct Shaw when able...235.625
2321: PITMAN 35/36 get cleared direct Shaw...235.625
And that will be the last heard from them as they fly home.
THE END

Ref Mike below: Yes, 139.925 is their V-12...I just found it in my book.

 

[freqhopping]

Potomac just did some radio checks with Tanker-05 on 126.55, tested some different transmitters. I didn't hear anything on that freq, definitely not local to me. But I sure am enjoying hearing Potomac still.

1755-Pitman-33/34 just confirmed they are from the 77th Fighter Squadron. The Tanker confirmed they're from the 77th Air Refueling Squadron.

 

[ka3jjz]

139.925 listed in my notes and the Wiki as last used by the 77th in Sept 2006 as V12 - good find, Tin.

73s Mike

 

[Gemini]

PITMAN freq change.

6 AM Sunday. the freq is 143.8

 

[Gemini]

Cap Feed

Go here to ahve a listen:

http://scanmilair-dc.com/

 

[Gemini]

Pittman had a hard time making good connection to the Boom for his first AR of the morning. THey are still working on it currently. Oops. Dealy that Pittman 42 just finished successful AR

 

[Gemini]

Unsure if related to CAP or not but just picked up 2 brief transmissions on the recorded audio on 143.65. Watching that one from Southern MD

Jeff

Just a floow up here. After reviewing the recorded audio on this freq I can;t confirm who it was. I only had several breif comms on it and only had the tail end of those.

2 possibilities

I suspect not directly CAP related but possible Tanker Interplane. I sure did not have any other MILAIR activity in this time period to associate it with.

I live in Southern MD and it might be feasible to assume PITTMANS called back to home plate on the freq. I have heard AC calling Shaw fromhere b4.

Could be they jusat pushed wrong button.

 

[Gemini]

PITTMAN unable to refuel

Well. The story changed. TANKER 07 advises they CAN NOT refuel PITTMAN 42. They are unable to safely disconnect. PITTMAN 41 is gonna reconnect and try to AR again.

on 260.9 PITTMAN 41 advises HUNTRESS to call SHAW and ramp up replacements way early or there will be noone in CAP.

TANKER 07 Unsure if their system or not so hopes they can figure this out by trying to AR PITTMAN 41 again.

 

[Gemini]

PITTMAN 42 declares IFE Inbound Andrews. I think for Engine Malfunction

 

[Gemini]

Just confirmed 143.8 as PITTMAN V8

 

[freqhopping]

Apparently BLACKJACK-1 is up and about too. On 139.7 he just declared an emergency. Not sure where he's going to put it down.

1012-A few minutes ago Potomac sent Pitman-44 to 135.775 to standby. Then Potomac did some radio check on 350.25 with him. At the same time I was hearing Potomac transmitting on 135.775 too. At any given time I seem to have the Potomac controller simulcasting on three freqs. 135.525, 135.775 and 350.25
I'm recording instead of webcasting today. This computer won't do both at the same time. I'll have some good ground>air recordings.

 

[Gemini]

Apparently BLACKJACK-1 is up and about too. On 139.7 he just declared an emergency. Not sure where he's going to put it down.

I have not heard any RW birds take off this AM. I also have 139.7 in the scanner. Been very dead. I am in So MD though.

PITTMAN 42 did go IFE and land ADW for Engine Malf.

 

[TinEar]

Hi Jeff and welcome aboard. Look forward to your posts.

Just noted PITMAN 43/44 went to V-9 and came up on 141.75 as expected.
Among a whole lot of general chat about families and flying, they mentioned that Andrews is going to try to get the PITMAN 41/42 pilots that landed at ADW home to Shaw in time for Christmas. The Air Force *does* take care of their own.

Also noted earlier pair worked V-8 and came up on 143.8 which was the "other" freq we had for that preset position beside 139.825. Strange that within the same squadron they'd have two different freqs for V-8.

1234: PITMAN 43 heading for the tanker...has visual contact...nose cold, weapons safe...260.9
1239: Looks like they're using 260.9 as the boom freq too...PITMAN 43 makes radio contact with TANKER 08.
They must have been using the boom interphone since there was no contact info given in the clear.
1243: PITMAN 43 done refueling after taking 5400 pounds and now has 12200 pounds with tanks feeding...PITMAN 44 has 7700 pounds and is sent to the tanker for more...260.9
1253: PITMAN 44 completes refueling...took 5400 pounds...now has 12400 in his tanks...260.9

Ref below from Jeff: 43/44 mentioned "pilots" (plural) when they talked about getting "them" home for Christmas from ADW. No telling though...it might have just been a slip of the tongue in fast chat (or my hearing). However, if 41 couldn't take fuel, I don't think he'd have enough for the round trip plus the approximate hour he spent flying the CAP. At 100 pounds per minute of flying (6000 pounds per hour in an F-16), he'd almost certainly need more than his original load to make it back to Shaw. Your recording will be interesting to see what he actually did.
I think we're going to disagree on the multiple freqs for a single preset within a squadron though. I don't show that for any of the units in this area - certainly not for the DC-ANG and their use of presets. Langley is more difficult since (I at least) am never sure which squadron of the three I'm listening to when I hear their aircraft other than the one remaining F-15 squadron. Your example does make sense though and if I were planning radio operations for the squadron I'd certainly set the radios up that way so a Red/Blue Air mission could all use the same preset and be on different freqs for the mission. It's quite possibly done that way within some units (like Shaw's 77th it seems) but I haven't seen it within the F-16/A-10 units within striking distance of me. The bottom line though is that as long as we can hear them, the preset number doesn't make a whole lot of difference.
Edit: When I refer to presets, I'm only talking about the interflight freqs, not the rest of the presets. The other presets I know are changed for different missions, especially when they fly out of the area.

1314: Looks like PITMAN 43/44 might be getting a TOI to chase...260.9
1314: PITMAN 43 repeats BRA 130/45/low to target...44 has 125/49/low tracking 150...260.9
1316: PITMAN 43/44 told to "skip it"...so that's the end of the excitement for now...260.9
And just as they got the "skip it" command, my doorbell rings with company so have to run. Back later...maybe.

 

[Gemini]

Hi Jeff and welcome aboard. Look forward to your posts.

Just noted PITMAN 43/44 went to V-9 and came up on 141.75 as expected.
Among a whole lot of general chat about families and flying, they mentioned that Andrews is going to try to get the PITMAN 41/42 pilots that landed at ADW home to Shaw in time for Christmas. The Air Force *does* take care of their own.

Also noted earlier pair worked V-8 and came up on 143.8 which was the "other" freq we had for that preset position beside 139.825. Strange that within the same squadron they'd have two different freqs for V-8.

Tinear,

Thanks for the welcome. I have been watching this forum for a while but just starting to get busy scanning again. I did not have relevant info to contribute b4 so I kept my my shut.

From my own perspective it is not at all uncommon to see different freqs in the same preset for a particular squadron. The 1st FW do it all the time as do the DC ANG. I am unsure of logic behind it but my suspicion is as follows.

IMHO. Lets use DC ANG as example. Up over the bay we have 4 aircraft 2 WILD, 2 ANGRY.
They are gearing up for 2v2 Training. I suspect when practical, they try to designate a particuaar freq to a Lead and his wingman. I suspect they try to let these guys use this same freq quite often. For a given Lead/Wingman. freq XXX.XXXX is in their radio and for the next Lead/Wingman YYY.YYYY might be in the same preset in theirs.

I suspect that each squadron radio does not have a particular programming assignment like many suspect but that each particular Lead/Wingman likely have a slightly altered setup. Maybe this is why we tend to see so many extra freqs put out than what can be programmed into a particular radio.

All that is just my opinion there but I kind of got away from worrying too much about presets a couple of years ago as every time I heard a switch made they would come up on a freq, I would do the research and find out the research material appeared in error or outof date. If I hear a Prest reference now I do log it but, the chances are that the next guy thats going to hear them may hear something else for the same preset.

Again, I just want to clarify that this is based on my own monitoring judgement and should not be assumed as fact.

Also. I did step outside for a cigar when 41 was leaving the CAP. I could have sworn him say he was heading home and 42 was still at ADW. Maybe things changed while I was out. The recording will tell me later

Hi Jeff and welcome aboard. Look forward to your posts.

Just noted PITMAN 43/44 went to V-9 and came up on 141.75 as expected.
Among a whole lot of general chat about families and flying, they mentioned that Andrews is going to try to get the PITMAN 41/42 pilots that landed at ADW home to Shaw in time for Christmas. The Air Force *does* take care of their own.

Also noted earlier pair worked V-8 and came up on 143.8 which was the "other" freq we had for that preset position beside 139.825. Strange that within the same squadron they'd have two different freqs for V-8.

 

[Gemini]

Hi Jeff and welcome aboard.

I think we're going to disagree on the multiple freqs for a single preset within a squadron though. I don't show that for any of the units in this area - certainly not for the DC-ANG and their use of presets. Langley is more difficult since (I at least) am never sure which squadron of the three I'm listening to when I hear their aircraft other than the one remaining F-15 squadron. Your example does make sense though and if I were planning radio operations for the squadron I'd certainly set the radios up that way so a Red/Blue Air mission could all use the same preset and be on different freqs for the mission. It's quite possibly done that way within some units (like Shaw's 77th it seems) but I haven't seen it within the F-16/A-10 units within striking distance of me. The bottom line though is that as long as we can hear them, the preset number doesn't make a whole lot of difference.
Edit: When I refer to presets, I'm only talking about the interflight freqs, not the rest of the presets. The other presets I know are changed for different missions, especially when they fly out of the area.

Yep, it's one of those things folks will disagree on. Thats why I don't fiddle with presets much. I have seen the DC-ANG do it as wel as NJ. Can't say about VA. Memory going on me. When I first got started monitoring CAPS a few years back I really went haywire looking for presets. As soon as I though I had em nailed. Boom, a new freq in a preset I thought I had covered. Then I started noticing that sometimes the freqs started coinciding with the callsigns. C/S "ALPHA" would have XXX.XXX in their radio and C/S "BETA" YYY.YYY in theirs. Not going to say it was a rule of thumb but appeared to take place often enough that this suspicion became prevalent to me anyway.

Adding an afterthought here. Please keep in mind I have been outta the game for a couple years now. I am basing my opinon from old ways. The locals may have gotten away from the practice or may just not do it as much anymore.

 

[BM82557]

Blackjack helos

Earlier this afternoon I heard Huntress inform the Pitmans that the Blackjack CG helos were active today. I have't heard them this cap. Anyone been hearing them?? Not much going on, just the usual vfr traffic being watched.

 

[TinEar]

Earlier this afternoon I heard Huntress inform the Pittmans that the Blackjack CG helos were active today. I have't heard them this cap. Anyone been hearing them??

Not here...but then I haven't set the radios for anything but the CAP during the time I had to listen. Seems the BLACKJACK helos have been doing a lot of operating recently. Perhaps they're going through a training period. They should be working 139.7.
***************************************

Adding an afterthought here. Please keep in mind I have been outta the game for a couple years now. I am basing my opinon from old ways. The locals may have gotten away from the practice or may just not do it as much anymore.

Well, now that you've said that, I admit my 22 years in the Air Force is not real recent either. At one point, we'd have a block of freqs assigned to a unit and they could pick freqs from that block. For instance, DC-ANG might be given 139.05-140 for interflight and VA-ANG 140.05-141 for theirs - just to use an example. (50 kHz steps and often 100 kHz). For the past couple of years I've gotten back with it in a big way and base anything I have to say on recent experiences - although it's still only the opinion of this single person and not at all definitive for units outside my listening area...or maybe even for units within it. In any case, as I said earlier, the only thing that matters is that we find the freq when they say they're going to a preset and not the preset itself. That's just an indication where to listen based on past experience. The 138-144/148-150.6 band is so small that nothing can hide in it when we're searching.
******************************************
Heard TANKER 09 replace 08 and PITMAN 45/46 replace 43/44 shortly before 1500. The new PITMAN pair began calling in at about 120 miles out and made contact with 43 at 100 miles from the CAP at 1428.
I won't be able to get back to the radios until tomorrow morning at the earliest so happy listening everyone.
Almost forgot this...at 1337, PITMAN 43/44 went to secure comms on their interflight freq 141.75. They tried it a couple of times for just a few seconds each time. On the first attempt, one of them forgot to turn up the volume control and heard nothing. The second try was successful.

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!

 

[Mark]

EVAC 33115 coming in Andrews 2140z on CP with 12 litters,10 amb,8 pax.
Nice to see these trooper patients Stateside during the Holidays.
Wish them and their families all the best during their stay in the DC area.

Also a very Merry Christmas to all members here on Maryland Mil.
A great group indeed!

Mark

 

[Gemini]

Follow Up

Tinear,

Just a follow up I am listening to the recorded audio right now of the Pittman 41 exchanges with GUARD DOG this morning from roughly 10:10-10:30ish. Pittman 41 did request clearance to Shaw as a single ship. No mention whatsoever of Pittman 42 through this time period. I was pretty sure that was how I understood it but wanted to have a listen before committing.

 

[HM1529]

Regarding the boom interphone issue....

I had never heard of that before you mentioned it today (still new to milcom). So, I put the term in Google and instantly had access to a multitude of sources containing the term including USAF and RAF documents. Kind of hard to argue that this DOES NOT exist when it is discussed in official USAF docs.

Some people just like to argue I guess....