rescuecomm
Member
Should I wait for Tri to make a counterfeit PRC-163? It's even more cool than than the PRC-152.
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TCA PRC-152a forums, user groups?
- Thread starter wb4sqi
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paulears
Member
Isnt the problem with trademarks and rights in general that military specifications allow for multiple manufacturers they create a spec and farm it out to many builders who follow the specs very closely but perhaps add feature unique to that product. The brand name logos are protected as trademarks but the copies are simply unapproved products. The rights probably belong to the government or governments who wrote the spec. Especially where international sales of a common product are happening. Counterfeits are quite specifically determined in law, and if somebody like Harris have not taken anyone to court, it’s probably because they can’t.
They would have to "steal" a PRC-163 to even be able to copy it externally.That's one of the newest Falcon 4 series of radios and I don't believe there is currently an export variant even available. The only reason TRI, TCA and Falco have been able to "mimic" the look of the PRC-152 and PRC-148 is because of the export variants that have made it into the surplus world, along with "stolen" PRC-152's and PRC-148's that have been floated around. They got their hands on one or the other and used them as reference.
It would still just be another look-alike "softie". None of them function anything like the "real" PRC/RF radios. Even the menu's are nothing like the real ones.
Makes you wonder if people would spend $300-$400 to buy a look-alike APX8000, that functions nothing like the real thing.
rescuecomm
Member
Probably if there were widespread police simulation airsoft games and the APX8000 was not readily available for civilians to own. Again, these radios are not marketed against Thales or Harris military radios, just as the airsoft AR15's are not a threat to FN's M16 contract. For the gamers, Baofeng internals are just fine.
rescuecomm
Member
Don't have to steal one, if a NATO squad leader is (unfortunately) KIA and his gear is looted, somebody will end up with it. Maybe Russia or China.
That would make it stolen. No matter who ends up with it in the end.
paulears
Member
This section is for the people interested in these radios. I’ve noticed few owners dissatisfied with them unlike many other products. We seem now to be accusing the Chinese of stealing real Harris radios and backwards engineering them using killed in action as an emotive tool. That stinks. Totally paranoid and ridiculous xenophobic views of how the world works. There are lots of second hand ex-forces accessories on the market. Even here for mainly US gear. Maybe the idea of having a radio that can be hung on the end as a direct plug and play is attractive for the users? I’m sad to say some views here are exactly why the world laughs at a small section of the US population. Totally unacceptable statements in these days of political, racial and diversity equality.
Small pupulation of the US? You have to include the US Government in that small population because their actual position is exactly what has been stated in these threads despite the public facing Chinese *** kissing they know what time it is and issue bulletins every day reminding us all that China is a hemorrhoid on the ass of the world. Yes they will exploit any and all opportunity to glean information to gain an edge in a market. It's comic in the irony that they are such cuthroat capialists yet such devout commies, but that is the reality of communism. It's just croney capitalism dressed up for sale to emotionally driven morons.
I own or have used most all the units mentioned in this thread. The 6809s do suffer some birdies but I haven't had the issues some mention. Maybe I'm just lucky to have not hit the right freqs. The MSHRs are just single band MBITRs and are the father of that product line. They have some of the most pristine and loudest audio I have ever encountered and have excellent receivers and they are TINY. They are so super thin you could conceal one about anywhere. I absolutely LOVE the MSHRs. At the time they were introduced they had to be revolutionary. Bendix King had the same features at the same time less type 1 crypto but were the sizse of the future MBITR. If they had tweaked the user interface a bit the MSHR would be king. The push a button to change channel thing is a real drag but with some code changes they could have really had something that took off.
As for other more modern stuff...the Harris export models are nice but watch out for the tantalum capacitors inside. I've had them go supercritical and self destruct. Collecting this stuff is fun until it breaks then you are left looking like a dick because there is no avenue for repair so it's really just a gamble.
As for the Chinese knockoffs, they definitely got a hold of a real one and took measurements. They are just far too accurate. They fastest way to tell is to look at the antenna connector. If it's chrome and shiny it's fake. A real mil unit is a dull matte finish because it's a hardnened metal. It will shred antenna threads before giving out.
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Someone is reading waaaaay to much into these comments!
Anyways, the FBI busted a Chinese Nationalist, in 2010, who was smuggling US military communications gear, including Thales PRC-148's.
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paulears
Member
The Chinese brand on the box is, to be honest, a pretty good indication of the origin and the made in China sticker a bit of a clue.
haemorrhoids is a good example actually. Take a word based on a foreign language with real history, then pretend it’s yours to mangle. The missing letter proves it’s a knockoff!
I think we are reading far too much into this but the constant knocking of the Chinese products is tiresome. It’s called supply and demand. If people didn’t buy them they wouldn’t make them!
haemorrhoids is a good example actually. Take a word based on a foreign language with real history, then pretend it’s yours to mangle. The missing letter proves it’s a knockoff!
I think we are reading far too much into this but the constant knocking of the Chinese products is tiresome. It’s called supply and demand. If people didn’t buy them they wouldn’t make them!
The HARRIS RF-310M-HH actually does have a chrome looking finish on the antenna connector. The real Thales definitely don't.
Without a doubt if the market is there they will supply it. Missing letters and all maybe I should have been clearer that MacArthur was a prophet.
Don't get me wrong, I buy their garbage too. I have no choice but it's still garbage. To avoid Chinese tech is to live like the unibomber. They own everything.
All that aside their knockoffs do work and are pretty neat. They do what they are supposed to and fill the market deamand.
Yep, you can see the crystal structure in the metal of the Thales. I've wondered how much those TNCs cost. I bet they are astronomical.
As long as they actually know what they are buying.
I think the Falco JEM replica actually mimics the dull/matte grey connector finish of the Thales.
Gotta say, as the OP of this thread I'm enjoying the comments, especially from those who have had access and used the real versions of these radios.
First wart showed up yesterday, took the 152 for a ride in my Wrangler and I had noise on all seven memory channels for local two meter repeaters. I suspect the Wrangler electronics are wideband noise generators. At home I have noticed noise on some frequencies when close to a PC.
I've taken several DMR radios in the Wrangler and none have reacted in that manner but that could be due to the monitoring mode.
First wart showed up yesterday, took the 152 for a ride in my Wrangler and I had noise on all seven memory channels for local two meter repeaters. I suspect the Wrangler electronics are wideband noise generators. At home I have noticed noise on some frequencies when close to a PC.
I've taken several DMR radios in the Wrangler and none have reacted in that manner but that could be due to the monitoring mode.
I found the Baofeng UV5R class of radios can measure incredibly sensitive on a service monitor but in the field they will not receive things that other brand radios are receiving just fine. The difference is the single test frequency of a service monitor vs real world wide spectrum strong signals that make it through the minimal front end filtering and generate lots of internal IMD in these low end radios. The RF modules used in the Harris and Thales copy cat radios are probably similar design to the Baofeng and will suffer similar problems.
rescuecomm
Member
In regard to trademarks and intellectual properties, I believe Thales and Harris regard the look a likes as toys. How much advanced RF and crypto performance can be built into such toys before the OEMs take notice and resort to legal challenges is anyone's guess. There probably won't be any noticeable improvements to the radios electronics since they work just fine for the intended purpose.
WB4SQI is correct about this being the best thread ever in the B&ELT forum.
WB4SQI is correct about this being the best thread ever in the B&ELT forum.
Besides the look alike copies of Harris and Thales military radios not being a threat to sales of the real radios, I think it would be nearly impossible for either company to sue or cause the Chinese companies from making and selling them. It would cost a fortuned and never go anywhere.
This is also a little different than going after Chinese copies of watches, purses and other items intended to sell as the real deal. The only way US and EU companies have been able to counter the counterfeits is for in country customs personnel to find and confiscate the fake goods once they have reached the destination country.
This is also a little different than going after Chinese copies of watches, purses and other items intended to sell as the real deal. The only way US and EU companies have been able to counter the counterfeits is for in country customs personnel to find and confiscate the fake goods once they have reached the destination country.
paulears
Member
They’d also stand the risk of having to reveal exactly how their radios differ in court, and as all their sales are to users with severe and complex acceptance tests, the amateur user market isnt impacting their sales whatsoever. Never sue people who have no money is a great rule. The military products really don’t get hurt by these, so it’s not worth them pursuing.
Making progress here, home brewed a pc cable, software runs with an old prolific driver but I think I’m in error for the correct pins on my u329 connector. Pin A is ground, no doubts on the one. Pins E and F are data rx and tx but which is which?
i have confirmation the software reads/writes to the TCA 152 under Win10 from others so I’m close to success, just need to figure out what I’m missing.
i have confirmation the software reads/writes to the TCA 152 under Win10 from others so I’m close to success, just need to figure out what I’m missing.
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