The official "I want LSM to work properly in my scanner" thread

[AggieCon]

Full Definition of censor

1. 1 : a person who supervises conduct and morals: as a : an official who examines materials (as publications or films) for objectionable matter b : an official (as in time of war) who reads communications (as letters) and deletes material considered sensitive or harmful

Censoring | Definition of Censoring by Merriam-Webster

It's almost like the forum equivalent of encryption. If words hurt people, they can choose not to read or cry. It's a sad day if one's sensitivities prevents speech and expression for the rest. Even if it might seem like a useless post, why deprive others of it? It's possible -- maybe even probable -- I'm wrongly judging others' competency if their dumb posts were deleted before I could see them, for instance.

So, what does all of this have to do with LSM -- err, simulcast -- problems? If any of the scanner marketers are doing consumer research (I should think they are) and certain topics are consolidated or through unspoken rules are "off limits," it would prevent the scanner producers from realizing just how much of a potential customer base they are missing out on by not selling a simulcast capable product. I am glad this thread was made, because I learned a lot. However, if David wants to start a new thread on the topic this evening, what's the loss?

I've read so, so much on this issue, and I still learn something from every forum, web page, or article about simulcast.

Again, thank your for your efforts. I've learned a lot from everyone on here.

 

[mikewazowski]

Gentlemen, let's get back to discussing the LSM issue.

Conspiracy theories regarding Moderators promoting or censoring posts based on some unknown criteria don't belong here.

This is the General Scanning forum not the Rants forum in the Tavern.

 

[darunimal]

its a rant thread right

 

[AggieCon]

I had hoped it would be a productive thread, hence my post: http://forums.radioreference.com/2584582-post94.html

I suppose it's okay for us regular users to be the subject of some rants, though? Censorship, which can even be passive or without intent, also occurs when pertinent information is drowned out by noise.

While a little different angle on the issue, I thought a realization of the economics and a discussion of scanner marketers would help lead some to the conclusion that another approach is necessary to solve the simulcast problem (rather than sitting around hoping the next consumer scanner released will solve something).

 

[Medziatkowicz35]

NooElec - NooElec NESDR Mini SDR & DVB-T USB Stick (RTL2832 + R820T) w/ Antenna and Remote Control

will this usb stick work good at getting lsm and how hard is it to program?

 

[AggieCon]

Sure, but a R820T2 (the blue one) would be better. My target price for the R820T2 is generally $10-12. What exactly are you wanting to decode? For P25 Phase 2 or for simulcast, OP25 is your best option: http://forums.radioreference.com/so...-virtualbox-project-run-op25-windows-7-a.html

There are a number of us on here who will help you if you run into problems.

For $10 worth of hardware and free software, you will have a much better and pleasant experience receiving simulcast P25 compared to the current consumer scanner offerings. Depending on your position relative to the system you want to scan, the only additional thing you might need is a better antenna, running no more than $20 more.

 

[natedawg1604]

Sure, but a R820T2 (the blue one) would be better. My target price for the R820T2 is generally $10-12. What exactly are you wanting to decode? For P25 Phase 2 or for simulcast, OP25 is your best option: http://forums.radioreference.com/so...-virtualbox-project-run-op25-windows-7-a.html

There are a number of us on here who will help you if you run into problems.

For $10 worth of hardware and free software, you will have a much better and pleasant experience receiving simulcast P25 compared to the current consumer scanner offerings. Depending on your position relative to the system you want to scan, the only additional thing you might need is a better antenna, running no more than $20 more.

Yeah, OP-25 is the only program supporting Phase 2. SDRTrunk also supports LSM simulcast, but for me it's currently unusable because you can't hold on a talkgroup (it's on the list of feature additions, hopefully it gets added soon).

 

[Medziatkowicz35]

What's the point if it can't do talk groups or phase 2? Are there any op25 assembled already like sdr?

 

[br0adband]

I think nate meant (at least it's how I interpreted what he said) that SDRTrunk can't hold on a talkgroup because OP25 most certainly can. I haven't used it in a while but that feature was in it the last time I did use it (earlier this year) and I can't imagine why the devs would yank such a feature out.

As for OP25 "assembled," well there's no real fun in that as it's a learning experience to get it installed/compiled/up and running. It's a hands-on thing really and not for everyone even in spite of so many people wanting to monitor P25 Phase II, especially those with areas using LSM and having nothing but trouble doing it with actual physical scanners which seem to just suck at it. OP25 handles P25 Phase I just fine too, of course, but for P25 Phase II it's unmatched (personal opinion there so take it as such).

 

[Medziatkowicz35]

So the sdrtrunk is no good? I don't know how to solder and don't have the tools to do so. That is why I am looking for an already assembled option.

 

[AggieCon]

SDR usually doesn't require soldering. SDRTrunk is a nice application; it is good at some things. If you are wanting Phase 2, OP25 is your answer. OP25 is a Linux program that works with many software defined radios. The only hardware you need is a SDR, like the RTL R820T2. We're working off of a lot of threads here. Can you PM me or post in the appropriate forum/thread your goal and then we will be able to provide the best advice?

EDIT: I see you are interested in Jefferson County, Ohio and somewhere (adjacent I assume) in West Virginia. It looks like those systems are all going to be Phase 1; however, I wouldn't exclude future Phase 2 upgrades. I assume your simulcast issues are going to be with the Ohio side only. For the time being, both SDRTrunk and OP25 will work for you. Assuming you use Windows, SDRTrunk will be a lot easier. OP25 is probably better, though.

 

[Medziatkowicz35]

What about trunking? Jefferson County Ohio, and Ohio county,wv are p25 simulcast and trunked

 

[AggieCon]

OP25, UniTrunker, SDRTrunk, and DSD+ all do trunking. For simulcast, OP25 is your best option, followed by SDRTrunk.

• Order a SDR
• Get a 800 mHz directional antenna and 70 cm UHF band antenna (and appropriate adapter) and point to toward you closest repeater site
• Follow the guides on here and the internet to install the drivers for the SDR of your choice
• Install SDR# to learn the basics of your device, see what RF is around, and determine your frequency correction
• Decide between OP25 and SDRTrunk and then follow the appropriate thread on this forum for guidance on how to install and configure

Unfortunately, at the moment, there is no out of the box solution for this. At any rate, it's much better to learn something than to absorb the mindlessness around us.

 

[Medziatkowicz35]

What about the one I linked to earlier? Why do I need a large antenna like I would use for a retail scanner?

 

[AggieCon]

The one you linked to before is adequate but not the best and is overpriced. This is the last one I bought: http://www.amazon.com/Receiver-RTL2832U-Low-Cost-Compatible-Packages/dp/B015DN4DP6

Without knowing your location or having awareness of your immediate environment, I can't confirm you need more than the cheap stock antenna. I wanted you to be prepared to have the best shot at achieving your goal. Wait to see how it performs without a better antenna if you want. I'm not sure of your timeline.

To an extent, the RF spectrum at your location is what it is; though some receivers are better than others, depending on signal strength and surrounding noise, an antenna specific to your unique application will provide better results.

 

[Medziatkowicz35]

Ok I live in a 2 story brick house in weirton, wv. I am interested in Jefferson County Ohio and Ohio county wv. Both are simulcast p25 and trunked. Also I have tried the 652 pro radio shack, home patrol 1 and now the 396xt. All worked with varying degrees of success. They would be successful about 40 to 45 percent of the time.

 

[AggieCon]

Well you seem relatively well situated to the two systems. I'd hold off on the 70cm antenna for now. The closest Jefferson County tower is ~5 miles away. Depending on line of site, the stock antenna may do. Something like this might work better: Amazon.com: Phonetone 11db Outdoor directional Yagi 800Mhz/850MHz/900MHz GSM Antenna with N female connector for Cellular Mobile cell phone signal Repeater Booster Amplifier extender: Cell Phones & Accessories

Based on your experience with the other scanners, the problem is likely the modulation techniques used for simulcast not being supported by the scanner. See if the software solutions will work for you. It won't cost much to experiment with.

 

[Medziatkowicz35]

That's the same antenna my buddy gave me but it doesn't work in the house and I'm trying to hold off mounting it on the roof unless I can remove the directv dish and install it on the same mast. Plus getting cable to my room on the 2nd floor will be a pain unless I can use the cable I have already installed from when I had directv.

 

[AggieCon]

Your satellite TV coax should be of sufficient quality.

Pointed appropriately the directional antenna should work better than the stock antennas, even indoors. I use mine inside (and through half the building, not an exterior wall). Once you get your SDR and open up SDR#, you will be able to experiment with antennas smartly instead of guessing.

 

[natedawg1604]

I think nate meant (at least it's how I interpreted what he said) that SDRTrunk can't hold on a talkgroup because OP25 most certainly can. I haven't used it in a while but that feature was in it the last time I did use it (earlier this year) and I can't imagine why the devs would yank such a feature out.

....

Yes you are correct, the current version of SDRTrunk can't hold on a single talkgroup. It's on their feature addition list, hopefully they will figure it out soon. Even though it's useless to me at present, the devs of SDRTrunk seem to have developed a solid vocoder with great audio - as soon as they fix the talkgroup hold issue I will be excited to start using it.