UHF Narrowbanding ?

[merlin]

I can understand the need for spectrum conservation, but something I have observed. A decade back I loaded my scanner with dozens of repeater and simplex frequencies and usually quite active. Using my spectrm analyzer, from 400 to 500 Mhz, there were spikes all over the band.
Today, spikes are bunched into small groups, mostly DMR with wide areas of nothing. Like all the conventional repeaters are gone and users migrated to DMR.
GMRS is still around and except for about a dozen DMR sites, there is nothing. What do you figure will become of all this unused spectrum ?
I am sure this is not true for large metro areas, but sheesh.

 

[cavmedic]

Much of the spectrum still exists on paper.

 

[Ubbe]

It's the same thing where I live. Stockholm are a 2 million people area and had a lot of radio activity a decade ago but many users began to switch to apps using cellular systems. A monthly subscription are $10-$15 that includes free voice calls and texting and usually includes a GB or two of internet access. Then came Covid and pretty much all radio systems got silent, except encrypted Public Safety.

When users came back to work they had learned how to use other ways of communicating using their phone so no more need for radio. Several systems here just transmits an idle control channel. There are less than 10 systems that have daily usage, mostly a single repeater, and a couple more that does something weekly using radio.

Pretty much the whole low and high VHF and UHF are unused spectrum. I don't know what our FCC have planned to do with all that spectrum in the future. There aren't any cellular phone mobiles that can use 400MHz that I know of. Our public safety have procured a new nation wide LTE 700MHz system and will also leave their current UHF 380-385MHz system.

/Ubbe

 

[cavmedic]

Like most of the amateur coordinations, everything still exists on paper, but not getting used

 

[merlin]

Much of the spectrum still exists on paper.

Much in the real world too.

 

[WA0CBW]

Same hams + more repeaters = fewer hams on each repeater.
BB

 

[MStep]

Like most of the amateur coordinations, everything still exists on paper, but not getting used

Without going too far afield, it does concern me when I scan through the 2 meter, "220" (what's left it) and the 440 band in the middle of the day, and on an occasional weeknight, and even on weekends, that there is absolutely no simplex or repeater activity. And I am in the middle of New York City. Fortunately the low bands (below 30 MHz) are still pretty zippy throughout the US and in various parts of the world.

It seems that some ham folks have even gotten a little "mike-shy" in attempts to make contacts on VHF and UHF--- one tends to run into the same one or two folks that you do occasionally hear and conversations tend to dry up pretty quickly. I'm not sure what groups the OP was referring to--- perhaps more to the business users who can be few and far between, with the exception here in New York City of PD, FD and EMS, at least for the time being.

Back to the OP's comments, the art of talking has been replaced with the art of typing and texting. And cell phones for voice comms. I too wonder, as the original poster Merlin says, that he can understand the need for spectrum conservation, but for whom or what is it being conserved?

 

[cavmedic]

Businesses are really not using two way radios much these days. They are using cell phones, PTT apps similar to Zello and or electronic work order systems on tablets for dispatching, routing and scheduling.

A lot of these same companies are also keeping their FCC licenses and renewing them knowing if they expire , it will be difficult and expensive to go through the process if they choose to go the RF route again.

The same goes for the public safety pool. Many of the State, County and local government agencies have migrated over to larger systems, but still keep their legacy licensing up to date on paper placeholding the frequencies to them.

This all makes it more difficult for a new user to get coordination due to lack of available pairs, even though technically the frequencies are no longer in use or abandoned, they still exist on paper.

As for Amateur , it’s the same issue with coordinated paper repeaters and also take into account the amount of users now using digital modes with hot spots and ht’s only.

 

[K0WBC]

With narrow banding that has occurred and Motorola moving a majority of their customers to DMR, which is narrow in of itself creates lots of open space in the band. Now that's not so say that anyone is occupying that space. I feel that the overall use of mobile radio has gone down the past several years.

 

[MTS2000des]

Like most of the amateur coordinations, everything still exists on paper, but not getting used

Yep, in metro Atlanta, dozens of analog repeaters on 2,220,440 and even 900MHz- set for a couple of machines, all you hear in a given day/night are Bowelturd kerchunkers and repeater IDs followed by hours of silence. Aside from that and the other dozen or so on each band, paper repeaters, no reason to narrowband and lose performance of these oh so utilized systems.

 

[kb1fua]

Same hams + more repeaters = fewer hams on each repeater.
BB

So true! I traveled many years around the country for work, (being in the wireless industry in one form or another). Areas that repeaters were very much active are almost abandoned. Local nets have went by the wayside, the older HAMs still try to keep it alive. I noticed on several spotting sites that FT8 is the new freeway in the HF world. Even the DMR, and Fusion Wires-X has slowed to a crawl. I monitor every local repeater, and vhf/uhf simplex frequencies hardly anything.
In my area, (Lake Of The Ozarks) a tourist trap during the summer the frs/gmrs frequencies are hopping, so much so I've had to lock them out on the scanner. But the local ham repeaters are almost dead.
Anytime I hear a call on the radio, I always try to answer. Since I retired this past June I can honestly say that's only been about three or four times. They dropped the code test to gain more people to the ham community, but the community has now turned their backs on the very infrastructure that got them their start. It's a shame really...I know not every one has the same taste, or like-but...having to throw out my call on a repeater driving thru an area until I leave the coverage area and not one ham returned my call...sad. Maybe I'm just selfish. I used to love getting into tech discussions, antenna theories, even set up get together for some experiments etc...now it's cell phone apps, remote control HF, Software digital programs, which yes I do some...but I try to spread my modes out. Anyway...sorry for the long reply.
73
KB1FUA
Dean

 

[jeepsandradios]

I didn't see where we were specifically talking about ham stuff but in my area UHF TLMR for public Safety and UHF conventional is still very prevalent. I guess it all depends on your location.