Understanding Capacity Plus trunking, some more

[lwvmobile]

I can actually make a new recording of that, one which will have 0 errors since the remote machine is closer to the site, I'll start recording and upload shortly

Which one are you talking about?

 

[hrh17]

The Hytera T3 recording you mentioned in the previous post (I assume its one I provided lol)

 

[lwvmobile]

The Hytera T3 recording you mentioned in the previous post (I assume its one I provided lol)

I didn't know you had any of those. That one came from somebody else. But if you have a Hytera T3 system, by all means, get us some clean samples if you can.

 

[mrscanner2008]

new Capmax audio sample upload to audio samples

1 Tait Capmax and 2 different Capmax systems.

 

[thewraith2008]

The only system I've even seen that uses MBC Header and Continuation Blocks is a Hytera T3 system(So, no RAS), its the only sample I have that uses them. The sample may be of interest to you if you want to look at it. The MBC Header/Cont Blocks contain grants with absolute channel/frequency assignments, so that's nice, and some talkers have talker alias blocks in link control. The sample has some issues at times decoding very well, probably was a weak signal or noisy signal or something, throws a lot of tact/cach errors on me if I don't bypass the check on it.

Upload files for free - 1R-DSDPlus#5-Raw-Input_2022-08-12@141952.wav - ufile.io

Download 1R-DSDPlus#5-Raw-Input_2022-08-12@141952.wav for free from ufile.io instantly, no signup required and no popup ads

ufile.io

Only place I've seen MBC used as well.

I'll D/L that (beast of a) sample anyway way.
Always good to test against different networks. With the few samples made available so far, I've seen different things compared to networks I've seen around.

 

[thewraith2008]

Here we go again with filling my HDD up with samples

Getting a bit low here:

 

[thewraith2008]

new Capmax audio sample upload to audio samples

1 Tait Capmax and 2 different Capmax systems.

What is "1 Tait Capmax", isn't Capmax a Motorola brand name?

 

[mrscanner2008]

What is "1 Tait Capmax", isn't Capmax a Motorola brand name?

Its a Capmax from Tait company. Tait Communications - Your Critical Communications Partner

 

[thewraith2008]

Looking at this Tait document on system types, they seem to be called Full, Express20, Express6 and Access. (see page 4).
I don't see mention of CapMax offering.

Tait like Motorola, offer there own interpretions of DMR TII, TIII and radios to use on them.

 

[mrscanner2008]

add 2 audio samples from linked Cap + system linked cap+

 

[hrh17]

Looking at this Tait document on system types, they seem to be called Full, Express20, Express6 and Access. (see page 4).
I don't see mention of CapMax offering.

Tait like Motorola, offer there own interpretions of DMR TII, TIII and radios to use on them.

Tait offers their version of T3 trunking, which Motorola Radios and other vendors can use.
Tait radios can also connect to Capacity Max system and they are still working out the bugs as indicated by the latest tech notes

Remedy INC 50682: Tait terminals on MotorolaCapacity Max network hearing other calls This was found on DMR CapacityMax Tier-3 Networks in situations where either:
•Calls were setup by dialing an un-affiliated group or •Where the affiliation was still
pending At the end of the conversation, the radio which made the call would ignore any group-specific clear messages sent by the CapacityMax network during the inactivity ‘TN’
timeout and stay on the traffic channel inadvertently listening to other calls. The radio now checks for cleardown messages for the current group call on the payload channel.
This doesn’t occur on Tait networks which always send a ALLMSIDmessage to clear users

 

[thewraith2008]

I don't believe the the sample labeled: "1R-DSDPlus-Raw-Input_2023-01-19@Capmax-tait.wav" is a CapMax.

This sample is a bit noisy and does cause it to show as CapMax but after process it with a LPF, it cleans it up and it no long indicates a CapMax (no CSBKO:25 FID:16) but does see FID:88 PDUs to indicate as TAIT.

 

[mrscanner2008]

I don't believe the the sample labeled: "1R-DSDPlus-Raw-Input_2023-01-19@Capmax-tait.wav" is a CapMax.

This sample is a bit noisy and does cause it to show as CapMax but after process it with a LPF, it cleans it up and it no long indicates a CapMax (no CSBKO:25 FID:16) but does see FID:88 PDUs to indicate as TAIT.

Dsdplus FL report this system as capmax and in industry canada the system is registered as DMR Tier TIII. I will make another sample tomorow .

 

[thewraith2008]

Thing is, DSD+ is not infallible.
I have notice it does not always gets things right.

I think TIII system identification is getting harder to do because network seem to be more blended than before.

• Multiple FIDs been used to address the different manufacturers on system.

 

[hrh17]

Mixture of DMR T3 trunked vendors below. Tait T3, CapMax & Hytera T3

File folder on MEGA

mega.nz

 

[thewraith2008]

I'm spoiled with so many choices
I can't say thanks enough to @hrh17 and @mrscanner2008 for providing these DMR samples.

A request if I may, I would like to see a CAP+ sample that has a high amount of traffic with at least 12-16 channels active.

• These samples don't need to be that big as I'm only trying to see the 'Cap+_CH_Status' PDUs (CSBKO:62) and not the voice traffic itself.

Thanks for any assistance with this request.

 

[thewraith2008]

Here is a question about CAP+ usage of neighbor sites.

How many neighbors can a site have? (does the CPS have a set limit?)
The PDU the that reports the neighbor sites (CSBKO:59) can indicate 7 (3 bits) but can only store 6.
If more than 6 neighbor sites are possible, then this PDU would need to be a multi-PDU type like the 'Cap+_CH_Status' PDU is.
It seems to have the ability to do that.

My guess is each site can only have a maximum of 6 neighbor sites based on this overlap of site coverage drawing (by me)

Any insights about this?

 

[mrscanner2008]

Here is a question about CAP+ usage of neighbor sites.

How many neighbors can a site have? (does the CPS have a set limit?)
The PDU the that reports the neighbor sites (CSBKO:59) can indicate 7 (3 bits) but can only store 6.
If more than 6 neighbor sites are possible, then this PDU would need to be a multi-PDU type like the 'Cap+_CH_Status' PDU is.
It seems to have the ability to do that.

My guess is each site can only have a maximum of 6 neighbor sites based on this overlap of site coverage drawing (by me)

Any insights about this?

if this could help:
MOTOTRBO Capacity Plus Multi-Site is a cost-effective, high-capacity, voice and data communication solution that:
Connects up to 15 sites, each of which can support a maximum of 16 trunked (voice/data) paths, plus an additional 8 paths for dedicated data, integrating voice with data applications such as GPS-enabled location services, text messaging, and telemetry on the same system .

 

[jake_Braker]

I have a question and I figured y'all would be the perfect people to ask. I'm trying to track a Cap+ system around me, however running DSD, I only get the voice LCNs. I'm trying to track down the data LCN's. Any idea how I can go about that? I try to sit on a frequency I confirmed is data, but it only shows the voice LCNs.

 

[mtindor]

I have a question and I figured y'all would be the perfect people to ask. I'm trying to track a Cap+ system around me, however running DSD, I only get the voice LCNs. I'm trying to track down the data LCN's. Any idea how I can go about that? I try to sit on a frequency I confirmed is data, but it only shows the voice LCNs.

All channels can have voice on both timeslots, data on both timeslots, or voice on one timeslot/data on the other. The only time there is a "data only" frequency is if they have dedicated a particular freq for data. And i don't think that dedicated data channels have LCNs. I know the local DMR TIII system that I monitor has dedicated data channels that do not appear to have LCNs. Probably the same case for CAP+ -- if you are referring to dedicated data channels.

But I'll defer to those who know more.