Upcoming Encryption

[BinaryMode]

Forward this to the Minnesota officials that set the stage for encryption. Indicate a 5 minute delay is reasonable for dispatch and that openness with the public and the Press is warranted for the better public good and free people of the United States, i.e this isn't Communist China. You can help create your e-mail or letter with ChatGPT. Connect your Agency to the Public

 

[1969Roadrunner]

I have noticed that 3 control channels (852.0875) (853.3625) and (853.7625) for the Ramsey County site have not been online for the last week or so. Only one is working (853.7125). I hope they are not planning to do the big "E".

 

[DVINTHEHOUSEMAN]

If you're talking about channels actually transmitting control information, only one control channel is on at a time. If you aren't seeing those frequencies at all in the rotation for voice traffic, it's possible they are down for maintenance.

 

[1969Roadrunner]

If you're talking about channels actually transmitting control information, only one control channel is on at a time. If you aren't seeing those frequencies at all in the rotation for voice traffic, it's possible they are down for maintenance.

Yes that is correct, I am not seeing them at all in the rotation. Also I use a P25RX Bluetail scanner and it allows you to test control channels or just use one at a time as a primary.

 

[ofd8001]

I have noticed that 3 control channels (852.0875) (853.3625) and (853.7625) for the Ramsey County site have not been online for the last week or so. Only one is working (853.7125). I hope they are not planning to do the big "E".

Encryption does not come into play with respect to the control channel. Rather it is on the voice channels. Otherwise, you could just program the system on your scanner as a conventional one and listen to a non-trunked version and hear "stuff". That defeats the purpose of encrypting.

 

[DVINTHEHOUSEMAN]

Encryption does not come into play with respect to the control channel.

Encrypted control channels (formally called Link Layer Encryption) is actually part of the P25 spec and encrypts the control messages making it impossible for any radio without the proper key to follow trunked traffic from the control channel. Encrypted radio ID's and other pertinent information is also possible on the voice traffic itself, again, part of the spec. No manufacturer currently supports it that I know of, however.

...you could just program the system on your scanner as a conventional one and listen to a non-trunked version and hear "stuff". That defeats the purpose of encrypting.

Whether or not it's programmed as trunked makes zero difference as to the encrypted traffic being decipherable or not. The voice frame data is what's encrypted, so you will hear the digital garbage or hear nothing depending on what model you have.

It doesn't defeat the purpose of encrypting.

 

[1969Roadrunner]

I guess my main concern is that Ramsey county was just using only one control channel while they were preparing to switch over to a "new" system. Hopefully it is just site maintenance.

 

[sonm10]

Can we please keep the topic of this thread to which agencies have or have not encrypted. The last several posts have been off topic and should have started a different thread. Thanks

 

[stmills]

I have noticed that 3 control channels (852.0875) (853.3625) and (853.7625) for the Ramsey County site have not been online for the last week or so. Only one is working (853.7125). I hope they are not planning to do the big "E".

From what I am seeing using DSDplus- control is 853.7125 and 852.0875, 853.3625, 853.7625 all are identifying as alternate control channels.

 

[KD0FEO]

It appears that wright county has made the switch today and went encrypted. TrunkingRecorder shows last LE1 transmission at 11:47am which was two hours ago. I'm not home to confirm this but many sources tell me that it's been done.

 

[bearcatrp]

That sucks. Will check my logs at home to see when the last transmission was. Another nail in the coffin.

 

[stmills]

A little after 11 dispatch announced to switch to the new law1E

 

[stmills]

I can’t log Wright County system but off of Hennepin West I am seeing increased activity on Law4E but nothing else new yet. For those who log Wright county how often is Law4E usually used?

 

[bearcatrp]

I have 3 hits around 9:30 this morning from wright county ALS dispatch. P25.

 

[mmtstc]

I decided to make the vernacular switch this morning. Second to last column is the hit count for ratio comparison on historical usage. Aside from the last two days when i was mobile, I probably am logging 4-040 about 300 days/year.


Apologies for the potato quality redaction, but this is a screen shot from my Unitrunker filtered to just show ENC transmissions.

 

[egftechman]

It appears that wright county has made the switch today and went encrypted. TrunkingRecorder shows last LE1 transmission at 11:47am which was two hours ago. I'm not home to confirm this but many sources tell me that it's been done.

Unfortunately it is going to eventually be the whole state for law enforcement. The latest BCA document governing local agency communications ( https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/bca/bc...s/MNJIS-5002-CJDN-Network-Security-Policy.pdf ) is pretty clear that radio traffic likely need to be encrypted (section 2.8 on page 10 of document) - if one says a subject has prior offenses or has warrants, they just communicated CJI, so it would be subject to current security standards, and no agency wants to fail a CJIS audit because of something accidentally transmitted in a clear channel.

You're likely going to have to go to the BCA and FBI and not the local agency if you want to complain about encryption.

 

[bearcatrp]

Got a hit at 7:30 tonight. Wright county law 2.

 

[stmills]

From what I have seen over the past days:
Law 1 - replaced by Law 4E now Law 1E
Law 2 - clear car 2 car
Law 3 - replaced by Law 5E now Law 3E

 

[AAFC]

Unfortunately it is going to eventually be the whole state for law enforcement. The latest BCA document governing local agency communications ( https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/bca/bc...s/MNJIS-5002-CJDN-Network-Security-Policy.pdf ) is pretty clear that radio traffic likely need to be encrypted (section 2.8 on page 10 of document) - if one says a subject has prior offenses or has warrants, they just communicated CJI, so it would be subject to current security standards, and no agency wants to fail a CJIS audit because of something accidentally transmitted in a clear channel.

You're likely going to have to go to the BCA and FBI and not the local agency if you want to complain about encryption.

The FBI and BCA do not MAKE laws.... they only enforce laws. If we want to fight encryption, it's going to be at the state lawmaker level.

In fact, if there was any question about government agencies having the ability to make (and enforce) their own laws, the recent Chevron Doctrine Supreme Court ruling should settle that right quick, in a hurry.

 

[egftechman]

The FBI and BCA do not MAKE laws.... they only enforce laws. If we want to fight encryption, it's going to be at the state lawmaker level.

In fact, if there was any question about government agencies having the ability to make (and enforce) their own laws, the recent Chevron Doctrine Supreme Court ruling should settle that right quick, in a hurry.

The rules the BCA and FBI set are mandatory for CJIS access, regardless of their origin. Local agencies have very little say in it, failing a CJIS audit can be very serious