Updates are Coming

[N4DXX]

Peace and serenity at last,calm after the storm...Looking forward to the update's to see what it has to offer..

 

[baddandy23]

where do you locate the ESN on the 396 out of curiosity? I can't find mine anywhere

 

[W4ELL]

Esn

I don't think it is visible yet... the coming update will allow you to see it.

 

[tonsoffun]

where do you locate the ESN on the 396 out of curiosity? I can't find mine anywhere

When you go to register for the 396 there is no place to enter the ESN yet
But for the BCT-15 and 996 there is a place to enter that info which is the
last 8 digits of the serial #.

 

[yaesumofo]

Paul. I see that Uniden is hard at work creating new firmware for their flagship apco 25 radios.
Just wondering:
Does this mean that UNiden's focus has changed from Hardware to software? Will we be seeing new flagship hardware any time soon?

Yaesumofo

 

[gregmoss]

Hopefully the up coming update or upgrades will include NAC Decoding/Selection for P25 Conventional and Multi-Site operation just like the BCD996T BCT15 or maybe even the Close Call Do not Disturb. Just greatful too see that uniden cares. I admit i was doubtful about any other updates or upgrades over the time. Thanks! Upman for your help and cooperation in these forums. The bcd396, bcd996, rules!!

 

[yaesumofo]

One thing is for sure. Uniden is planning on creating a NEW revenue stream with these firmware upgrades which are a whole lot less expensive than developing new radios. As it is the 396 probably costs less than ever to manufacture. The price hasn't dropped though.
This way Uniden gets to save development costs fro a while and make money on firmware. They are working hard for the share holder while maximizing company resources.
Yaesumofo

 

[chgomonitor]

396 Upgrade

-You will find you 396's serial number on a label underneath the bottom AA cell inside the battery compartment. (Drove me nuts, too).

-When they release the new version of the updater program it will add a "real" ESN into your 396.

-Write down your serial number and keep it someplace safe. If your radio ever gets lost or stolen this will enable the police to enter it into local and national databases as a stolen article and thus may assist in it's recovery. I also have my phone number and a "reward" message on the start up screen for the same reason.

-Thanks out to Paul for all his efforts on our behalf and to Uniden for the work on improving our scanners and keeping them up to date. Looking forward to the upgrade.

-I'd MUCH rather pay some bucks for a firmware upgrade 2.0.? in the future which gives me a bunch of new features, as opposed to spending another half grand or more on a whole new radio. Good business.

Happy Scanning! - Ted

 

[slicerwizard]

One thing is for sure. Uniden is planning on creating a NEW revenue stream with these firmware upgrades which are a whole lot less expensive than developing new radios. As it is the 396 probably costs less than ever to manufacture. The price hasn't dropped though.
This way Uniden gets to save development costs fro a while and make money on firmware. They are working hard for the share holder while maximizing company resources.

Too bad they're not working towards keeping our 396's and 996's from becoming outdated paperweights. Wait a minute - that's exactly what they're doing. And for some reason, you don't like it. Go figure.

 

[slicerwizard]

I hope someone high in uniden gets a print out of this thread. What I gather is that people are welcoming the new features and upgrades, and some might even be ok with paying for it, but encryption to keep you out of your own hardware and serial number tracking business is not being taken well. DRM is very unpopular, most of the big online stores are phasing it out of their products because its turning off consumers. Now uniden wants to get on the bandwagon and add it. Customers will not react well to it despite an attempt to sell it as the next best thing.

So if I understand correctly, you like the idea of a la carte firmware features, but not how Uniden is planning on implementing them? I assume that you are OK with Uniden collecting payment from every user who upgrades their scanner to include new features. So how do you propose that they achieve this? If you don't like their method, what alternative do you offer?

 

[slicerwizard]

To speak to the "spyware" and "rootkey" concerns, all that is being added is an ESN (electronic serial number). This has been in at the factory from unit 1 for all BCD996T's and BCT15's, and will be put in at the factory for all future models. All it is is a unique product identifier, just like the ESN for your cell phone and many other electronic devices (or the printed SN on the scanner's label).

Let's see if I've got this right:

- currently, all 396's are identical internally - no embedded ESN (yet)

- as part of the upcoming firmware update, we are required to provide a number (the scanner's serial number) and this number (or some derivative of it) will become embedded in the scanner's firmware

- when paid firmware updates become available, Uniden will use some mechanism to provide individual firmware downloads that are only useable by the purchaser (e.g. if you buy firmware for ESN 54003333, it will only work in a scanner with an embedded ESN of 54003333)

- via this process, Uniden gets paid for each useable copy; unauthorized copying is prevented


If I didn't get all of that wrong, it occurs to me that there isn't anything stopping multiple 396 owners from picking a common ESN (like 54001234, for example); now they can all share the same premium firmware upgrade. I'm not suggesting it or condoning it, just observing that the lack of unique ESNs straight from the factory has created a big hole in this "DRM" scheme.

 

[offsite]

Dang, Slicer! Now you've done it! There goes our chance for any meaningful upgrades being developed, since Uniden is a for-profit entity and now will not want to be working on these new features for free... LOL!

But seriously, if your analysis is valid, then for the 396 only, I'm guessing either this effect will be factored into the price of any new features, or else the 396 will be used as a proof of concept test bed for the "pay for new features" approach Uniden seems to be contemplating.

If the latter is the case, then we likely may not see much in the way of useful new features for the 396T. But perhaps there is still hope for the 996 (with its factory embedded ESN).

Either way, for me this is an exciting development since I've grown attached to both of these units and would be happy to pay a fair price for functionality beyond what I originally purchased, instead of dumping them for some new hardware platform with its own (different) set of idiosyncracies.

Besides, if this thread is any indication, the high degree of autonomy displayed by users in this market segment makes any large scale collusion to defraud Uniden seem pretty unlikely...

 

[kenisned]

If I didn't get all of that wrong, it occurs to me that there isn't anything stopping multiple 396 owners from picking a common ESN (like 54001234, for example); now they can all share the same premium firmware upgrade. I'm not suggesting it or condoning it, just observing that the lack of unique ESNs straight from the factory has created a big hole in this "DRM" scheme.

I'm sure the ESN will be somehow assigned by Uniden based on serial number or some other mechanism when you register. I doubt you'll just be able to pick an ESN.

 

[bwilborn]

If I didn't get all of that wrong, it occurs to me that there isn't anything stopping multiple 396 owners from picking a common ESN (like 54001234, for example); now they can all share the same premium firmware upgrade. I'm not suggesting it or condoning it, just observing that the lack of unique ESNs straight from the factory has created a big hole in this "DRM" scheme.

Maybe, but Uniden may go for a per-user (vs. per-unit) licencing scheme anyway.

-- B

 

[Dubbin]

it occurs to me that there isn't anything stopping multiple 396 owners from picking a common ESN (like 54001234, for example); now they can all share the same premium firmware upgrade.

I doubt very much that you would see that very often. There is much pirated stuff going on in our hobby.

 

[cpuerror]

So if I understand correctly, you like the idea of a la carte firmware features, but not how Uniden is planning on implementing them? I assume that you are OK with Uniden collecting payment from every user who upgrades their scanner to include new features. So how do you propose that they achieve this? If you don't like their method, what alternative do you offer?

I think the best move from a consumer point of view is to just make one firmware file, with all the new features whatever those might turn out to be, and give it away. They are still selling scanners, so its not like the money is going to stop flowing in to pay the salary of the (judging from the productivety rate) part-time programmer who works 4 hours a week every other week.

The CPU in these things has a flash memory capacity of 1MB, and the existing firmware already takes up about 760k. If they can squeeze more stuff in there then great, but i guess no one can really judge whether its worth it or not till there are some actual details released.

 

[ampulman]

If I didn't get all of that wrong, it occurs to me that there isn't anything stopping multiple 396 owners from picking a common ESN (like 54001234, for example); now they can all share the same premium firmware upgrade. I'm not suggesting it or condoning it, just observing that the lack of unique ESNs straight from the factory has created a big hole in this "DRM" scheme.

I'm sure that when you 'apply' for your ESN, the computer on the other end will know that that SN has already applied for one and give you a polite message, such as:

Checksum error--Serial number invalid- please verify/re-enter your serial number.

In other words, no scamming allowed.

AM

 

[EyeSpy]

For all who are getting all hell bent out of shape for the ESN and updates, do any of you own a GPS (Garmin to be exact)? This software uses the ESN in the GPS to connect to the GPS and get the required updates for it. It does nothing else. All of the same stuff Paul has talked about is already being used in other form of products we use everyday (and DRM is a whole different topic).

What they do allows them to tailor the updates for that device. And since not everyone is tech savvy in getting updates, it also allows them to see just what percentage of their consumers actually get updates from the site. I get free firmware updates, as well as other "tweaks and fixes" for my GPS, but if I want and upgrade to another mapping software, I have to pay - and all of this is known and tracked through your ESN/serial. Not invasive and even with a GPS, it is not sending back the routes I have taken and any other personal information I did not already create the original account with.

If no one is updating, who the hell is going to pay for upgrades and what does that look like in terms of a worth while venture for the company? Yes, the couple hundred on the site that love it and do it works, but as an expense in creating such a site and program for the company for a small amount of people who might be willing to pay for and upgrade would be just another expense with no ROI for them (or their shareholders).

I think their has been some great misconceptions with all of this upgrade/update stuff and much has been blown out of proportion. The mere fact they are looking to allow us to make upgrades to make these scanners non-obsolete is great to hear - if I can make my investment in my hobby last longer, I am all for it, as time and technology marches on, it has got to be cheaper and simpler to 'retro-fit' if you will, these devices with some simple fixes to allow us to keep us enjoying what we are doing.

 

[slicerwizard]

I'm sure that when you 'apply' for your ESN, the computer on the other end will know that that SN has already applied for one and give you a polite message, such as:

Checksum error--Serial number invalid- please verify/re-enter your serial number.

In other words, no scamming allowed.

Why would one have to apply for an ESN? Why would one have to deal with the Uniden site at all? Why can't Joe Blow just use the same ESN as his friend and use the paid firmware downloads that his buddy gets? That is my point. Paul is saying "uh, would y'all please store unique ESN's in your 396's so we can stop y'all from sharing/pirating/copyright infringing our IP? Thank you for your cooperation."

 

[slicerwizard]

I think the best move from a consumer point of view is to just make one firmware file, with all the new features whatever those might turn out to be, and give it away.

That would result in the really good upgrades never being developed/released for the 396/996. That is not the best outcome for consumers.

They are still selling scanners, so its not like the money is going to stop flowing in to pay the salary of the (judging from the productivety rate) part-time programmer who works 4 hours a week every other week.

8 hours a month? Seems like it's less than that.