Also welcome to ham radio!! You will get it sorted out and you might be surprised when there is a 2 meter band opening just how far you might get!!
VHF/UHF radio and antenna questions
- Thread starter KY_Ham_64
- Start date
KY_Ham_64
Member
Thanks. From what I could tell, they had no problem hearing me, but I couldn't hear them as clearly. I tried moving the antenna around but it didn't help much in getting a clearer signal.
There's a net tomorrow night on a repeater about 30mi East of me. I'll try to see how I'll do then. I'll try to hook it up to the X200 then.
KY_Ham_64
Member
Thanks, I've only had my license since November, passed the Tech and General then, then the Extra in January. This is my first higher powered rig of any sort. My first radio was a FT65R. Looked into some HF things, but don't want to rush into things too quickly, there's lots to learn.
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Great start. If you have 1/2 the fun I've had since 95 (when I finally got licensed but been on radio one way or the other since 1971) you'll have a blast. Once you start getting radios and antennas and ... the real learning begins! It's a BIG world out there and lots to do!! 73!
Better be a pretty big popcorn tin. You ideally need something bigger than that for VHF.
KY_Ham_64
Member
Yeah, I was just using what I could find to keep the SWR down. For the most part it was below 2.0. Since it's a mobile antenna I need to check it on my vehicles' roofs. Also need to find a way to hook it up to the car batteries.
When I put the radio in high power (50W), I noticed the UHF output was only about 35W, while the VHF was around 40-45W on the SWR meter.
It'll be interesting to see how it does through the X200. That antenna has the 3 ground radials at the bottom so I won't have to worry about the ground plane, obviously.
I'll need to get some more cable to be able to run it up my 19ft mast and down into the house. I just bought a 6ft cable initially, but I'm going to need about 25-35ft to run it from the pole.
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mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Unless you are testing directly into a 50Ω dummy load, the power output readings are not accurate. The high SWR of the antenna will throw the reading off.
KY_Ham_64
Member
I was able to get thru and get responses on the closest repeater which is about 16 miles at the mid power setting, or 25W. I tried using my mobile antenna outside on a cookie sheet, or on the roof of my car. Getting it out of the house made the difference.
I was also able to hit and talk on a different repeater across the river into Ohio at a distance of about 35 miles, again using the mid power setting. Had some good conversations on both the repeater contacts.
The local club has their net tonight so I'm going to try to check in with them, it'll be my first time on that net.
I was also able to hit and talk on a different repeater across the river into Ohio at a distance of about 35 miles, again using the mid power setting. Had some good conversations on both the repeater contacts.
The local club has their net tonight so I'm going to try to check in with them, it'll be my first time on that net.
KY_Ham_64
Member
Just ordered some LMR 400 cable for my base antenna setup. Have a few questions for y'all. I have a 19ft metal pipe that I'll be using as my mast, and will be attaching my Diamond X200 antenna to the top of it. We live in a single wide, and the mast is on the back side of the house about 30 ft from the end. The "radio room" will be in our office, on that end of the house.
I'm running the cable from the antenna connection, down the pole about 17-18ft, then under the house to underneath the floor/insulation layer up into the office thru the floor, drilling a hole for it. I figured about a 40-45ft run in total.
1. Should I install an in line surge protector in the run? Does it matter where this protector is located, outside near the pole or inside near the radio?
2. I'm assuming the pole will need to be grounded, but how? I don't want to drive a ground rod near the pole and attach a wire to it because I don't want separate grounding points. I would think it'd be better to run a ground wire from the bottom of the pole to the house's ground rod? This is about 50ft near the service pole in front of the house.
4. Does the coax cable need to tied to earth ground? If so, is this done to dissipate any static electricity away from the equipment?
Is there anything else I probably have missed?
Thank you in advance.
I'm running the cable from the antenna connection, down the pole about 17-18ft, then under the house to underneath the floor/insulation layer up into the office thru the floor, drilling a hole for it. I figured about a 40-45ft run in total.
1. Should I install an in line surge protector in the run? Does it matter where this protector is located, outside near the pole or inside near the radio?
2. I'm assuming the pole will need to be grounded, but how? I don't want to drive a ground rod near the pole and attach a wire to it because I don't want separate grounding points. I would think it'd be better to run a ground wire from the bottom of the pole to the house's ground rod? This is about 50ft near the service pole in front of the house.
4. Does the coax cable need to tied to earth ground? If so, is this done to dissipate any static electricity away from the equipment?
Is there anything else I probably have missed?
Thank you in advance.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
It's required by National Electric Code. It needs to be installed where the coax enters the home. It needs to be grounded to the ground rod/ground system for the trailer.
I was in Kentucky years ago. some of the most spectacular lightning storms I've ever seen. No way I'd install an antenna outdoors like that without one.
Ground rod at the base of the pole, and that ground rod bonded to the trailers ground rod. You'll need to drive in some additional ground rods along that run to do it correctly.
The lightning protection device will do that.
Ideally, you'd ground the coax where it comes off the pole using one of the grounding kits designed for that size coax.
Properly weather seal all your outdoor connections. Water -will- find it's way in if you don't, and it'll destroy your coaxial cable quickly.
KY_Ham_64
Member
Thanks. Sounds like I'll have to cut my cable. I bought a 50ft run with connectors on both ends. Is it easy to put new PL259 connectors on LMR cable? I have basic soldering and wiring skills. Just bought a new soldering iron a few months ago actually.
How many ground rods are we talking about? And why so many?
We do have some pretty intense storms, but nothing like tornado alley. Lightning isn't that bad here, closest we've been to a strike was maybe 200ft away. But, maybe we've been lucky. Winds aren't that bad here either, think the worst we've seen is maybe 70mph over the last 12 years.
Any suggestions on a lightning suppressor?
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
UHF connectors can be installed on LMR-400, but you need a really hot soldering iron. Like 200-300 watts. It's tricky because you need to get enough heat into the connection quickly and not melt the cable. That's why most of us use crimp connectors. Crimp tools can be expensive.
I'd recommend reading the NEC to get the right info. I'm a bit rusty at it and when I do this stuff at work, I've got electrical engineers that I consult.
It's not just the direct strikes you need to be concerned about. Even a nearby strike can induce enough energy into the antenna, mast and cable to do damage.
Polyphaser is the brand I use at work. There are cheaper options, but I don't like to mix cheap and safety.
And make sure you're using quality solder, such as Kester Solder or equivalent, and with a clean tinned tip. Your tip should be approx. 675 Degrees Fahrenheit. Using cheap solder that you get from a Pandaland retailer, and with a dirty tip that is not at the proper temperature will cause you to get very frustrated and have a crappy soldering job and more likely you will melt the cable.
The 67/37 solder would probably be your best bet for this job and has a low melting point with excellent wetting properties.
On the topic of grounding, is there a ground rod at the electrical service entrance on the side of your unit? For that matter, is there a service entrance on your unit? Or, is it fed from a meter base on a separate enclosure?
KY_Ham_64
Member
Service comes into weatherproof panel (thru meter base) on pole outside the house. It's near the south end of the house in the front. Ground rod is buried in the ground under that panel. Ground/neutral bar of that panel is tied to that ground bar with what looks like 6awg bare copper wire.
The two hots, neutral and ground are fed into the house panel which controls all the house circuits via a 200A breaker. Ground and neutral are not bonded in this panel.
The pole/mast I'll be using is near the north end of the house in the back. Distance between pole and service ground rod is maybe 50ft. Office where radio equipment will go is on north end of house. Coax cable will run down mast, under house until under office, then up into office thru hole drilled in floor. Distance roughly 40ft.
I'll try to get some pics later for clarification.
The two hots, neutral and ground are fed into the house panel which controls all the house circuits via a 200A breaker. Ground and neutral are not bonded in this panel.
The pole/mast I'll be using is near the north end of the house in the back. Distance between pole and service ground rod is maybe 50ft. Office where radio equipment will go is on north end of house. Coax cable will run down mast, under house until under office, then up into office thru hole drilled in floor. Distance roughly 40ft.
I'll try to get some pics later for clarification.
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kayn1n32008
ØÆSØ Say it, say 'ENCRYPTION'
Sounds like a split phase 'farm' electrical system. Where there is a main panel, and meter, that feeds the rest of the electrical system. In your case the 'rest' is just a single panel in side your mobile.
KY_Ham_64
Member
Yep, that's pretty much it. The pole panel does have spaces for breakers, of which I use to feed my solar inverter, which feeds a critical load 120V panel in the house. That pole panel had a single breaker that fed our shed but I moved that over to the critical loads panel. The inverter usually runs off solar and batteries but has a grid feed that kicks in when needed, i.e. batteries get too low and not enough solar. The CL panel also doesn't have G and N bonded.
At any rate, that's a whole different situation. Sounds like I'll need to run a ground wire from the antenna pole to the service ground rod.
I'm no expert. I don't read the NEC like a Bible. But, that's what I would do.
KY_Ham_64
Member
Me neither. But since I put in my solar power system, I've had to learn more about such things. I was in the electronics industry for 30 years, but that was a different ball game than electrical.
Installing solar was a learning experience. I got zinged when I had built my solar array when I was out messing with something on one of the panel frames while it was running. You'd think touching a solar panel frame wouldn't be a problem, but because it and the other panels weren't grounded, there was an AC voltage between the frame and ground. It was about 180VAC, but not enough current to hurt you. Apparently there was some kind of induced voltage between the PV lines and frames. It wasn't until I ran ground wire between the frames and ran that back to the service ground that that went away.
Never ground your two-way radio in a vehicle, especially a later model vehicles with control modules, directly to the vehicle battery. Always ground to a factory chassis grounding point, ensure the antenna mounting location is also electrically grounded and not grounded through the coaxial cable.
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