Wake County System, request all information

[PJH]

Actually, an easier way...change your scanner to hex, enter the talkgroup, then change it back to dec

I have heard that there is a problem with the window calc doing the hex to dec conversions..not sure of the details though.

 

[ericcarlson]

When you have a scanner that doesn't let you enter talkgroup IDs in hex... You have to make sure that you account for the status bit information that is a part of commonly used decimal "trunktracker" talkgroup IDs. Add a zero to the right side of the 3-digit hex number so you have 4 hex digits, then any hex-dec converter will work.

-Eric

 

[WB4DAV]

Blueline72 sounds like you have some good information for the system, once you convert it all :wink: Good luck and share the details with us when you get the chance.

 

[jthorpe]

In reference to your mystery data, I have no clue but I have been hearing it as well. I did some searching and found this link:

http://www.kb9ukd.com/digital/864.0875.wav

The guy who did this recording has been hearing this sound on a system in Wisconsin. It's also a mystery to him as he has not been able to find anyone to identify it. The sound to me is the same, but it's been a number of days since I heard the one on Wake County so I cannot confirm. Can someone listen to this and see if it's the same?

 

[PJH]

Sounds like an older analog Saber with pre and post ID enabled that was accidently keyed up. The older Motorola radio's would send the ID even if the PTT was pressed for a split second. The newer radio's won't send the ID out until it passes a set time (IE: after the side tone stops).

Most radios from the Jedi, Pro and Astro series don't have this problem. The MT1000's, Spectra and those line of radio's will do what you are hearing.

If you listen carefully, or slow down the file, you can hear both packets. Also, you will NEVER hear this on a TRS unless a conventional channel is patched in, since TRS radios transmit the ID and other data on the channel grant.

 

[CCHLLM]

From the standpoint of a long-term Motorola MOSCAD and telemetry system applications engineer, it sounds like a typical SCADA or mobile data system datapacket burst. The new Motorola trunked radio systems utilize the MOSCAD equipment to monitor the trunking sites. It may be on an analog channel patched to the trunked system, or it could be heard as part of a transmission by a mobile data terminal, or it could be SCADA bursts on an analog talkgroup, or it could be a simple xmtr ID as stated in the above posts. Sounds like two bursts, the first half being the unit addy and the second part the data being transmitted. The usual SCADA sequence is xmtr key up, Transmit Delay period to allow for system attack intervals, fsk burst, xmtr drop. There are also parity bit reps inserted before the data burst in some cases that enable access to a specific radio function in the system. There are a zillion ways to format the systems. Without hearing it in it's entirety for a few repititions, it would be hard to identify exactly what the fsk burst really is.

 

[PJH]

Almost forgot about that! Most, if not all the systems around my parts use the SCADA info off of a MW backbone, so I never even thought about it. I recall reading that its popular in the flatlands as 800 systems (and most bands in general travel much further) than in my mountainous region which makes such SCADA systems a little less costly to install than on their own system.

 

[CCHLLM]

You're right about the data going over the microwave backbone systems for site monitoring, but sometimes on smaller systems it's done on a talkgroup instead, or a combo of both. That's because that type MOSCAD setup reports only "exceptions" to system operating parameter. Once the "exception" is acknowledged by the terminal operator, it does not repeat the data. "Exceptions" would be alarms and other devices that provide simple contact closures in their alarm modes. This type of data produces very little traffic.

Flow meters and pH monitors and other instruments with continous analog outputs regularly "report" over the system either by a predetermined interval, site polling, "exception" (alarm) reporting, or some type of rate-of-change monitoring. Most systems utilize a combination of all those.

Many times when designing new trunking systems, we add talkgroups for data only that relay site monitoring data, storm water monitoring data, water/sewer data, mobile data, security data, remote video frames, etc, etc to their respective destinations. For data sites that aren't located at a microwave interface, we use the SCADA's "store and forward" capability to forward its data to another site that is microwave interfaced, and you'll hear that traffic passed over the trunked talkgroups to the MW site where it enters the backbone system. There are MOSCAD setups that will have a chain of several sites storing and forwarding data to a relay terminal site over simplex or spread spectrum freqs because the sites are not able to hit the repeater or receiver sites on their own, and the relay terminal site then relays the data over the trunked system or MW to the intended destinations.

In other words, the new digital trunked systems don't just handle voice and mobile data traffic, and they are much more complex than most people know. Just as a heads up, on digital systems what you may hear that sounds like a digital control channel but your scanner won't ID as such may be one of the digital SCADA talkgroups. You're not crazy and neither is your scanner. If you hear it as FSK and you hear it in short bursts, it's analog SCADA.

Hope this helps.

 

[blueline72]

Yet another question!!

DO THE HEX CODES AND TE DECIMCAL CODES ALWAYS STAY THE SAME?? fOR EXAMPLE....IF THE HEX CODE/ DECIMAL CODE FOR SYSTEM A BE THE SAME AS SYSTEM B??? ....OR ARE THE HEX CODES/ DECIMAL CODES SPECIFIC TO EACH SYSTEM??

MEANING, COULD I USE THE HEX CODE/DECIMAL CODES FROM ONE SYSTEM TO DECIPHER THE CODES FOR ANOTHER SYSTEM??? tHANKS AGAIN, BRIAN

 

[KE4ZNR]

Ohhhh yeah!!

So I just picked up my Pro96 today
I am monitoring the Smartzone system as I type this...
jotting down Talkgroups IDs as they pop up on the screen...
I will have more updates in the next couple days...however now I must get some zzzzs...
anyone else local to the triangle area with a Pro96 feel free to email me at MSherard@nc.rr.com

 

[Chris-M]

Wake Co. scanning

Has NCHP and Wake Co SO moved to the Smartzone system yet?

I got into scanning in the early 80's in the Raleigh area. I still have all the old VHF/UHF freqs in my brain stashed away. NCHP, Cary PD/Fire/EMS, Raleigh PD, Apex, Wake Co SO, RDU airport, etc... And back then when cellphones weren't widely available (which were VHF, and only the rich had 'em then), PD couldn't say '10-21 my mobile'. Sigh... Or send messages via MDTs.

And I recall when Cary switched to 800. I could scan 800 but before there were TRUNKING scanners, it was frustrating following a conversation as it switched. When it did, you'd hear Public Works, or the building inspector, or something else, and had to resume the scan to find the PD activity again. LOL.

The new trunking systems are great so long as they aren't encrypted. It's nice being able to see the text display on the scanner at a glance.
Sadly I think encryption will be pretty standard in a few short years.

Where I am now (Texas) there are no digital trunking systems, yet. Thankfully my Pro2053 is still doing fine.

 

[INDY72]

Umm you must not be near SATX lol the home of the ProVoice EDACS digital TRS.. lol Albeit mixed mode, so you can hear the analog TG's unless ESK is turned on.. but yup DTRS.

 

[Chris-M]

Umm you must not be near SATX lol the home of the ProVoice EDACS digital TRS.. lol Albeit mixed mode, so you can hear the analog TG's unless ESK is turned on.. but yup DTRS.

The Montgomery County system is EDACS. All of the public safety agencies in this county use it. Supposedly this system also supports ProVoice Digital Voice for *select* certain agencies that use this system.
I don't have a clue if they actually use the ProVoice feature or if it's even activated.

 

[KE4ZNR]

Re: Wake Co. scanning

Has NCHP and Wake Co SO moved to the Smartzone system yet?

Yep! Both agencies are on the Smartzone system...NCSHP is analog while Wake Co Sheriff is APCO 25 digital....

I got into scanning in the early 80's in the Raleigh area. I still have all the old VHF/UHF freqs in my brain stashed away. NCHP, Cary PD/Fire/EMS, Raleigh PD, Apex, Wake Co SO, RDU airport, etc... And back then when cellphones weren't widely available (which were VHF, and only the rich had 'em then), PD couldn't say '10-21 my mobile'. Sigh... Or send messages via MDTs.

I know whatcha mean...my fiance likes to joke that I have memorized all of the frequencies for the central NC area but I can't remember her birthday to save my life (I know it is Thursday thank you very much!)

And I recall when Cary switched to 800. I could scan 800 but before there were TRUNKING scanners, it was frustrating following a conversation as it switched. When it did, you'd hear Public Works, or the building inspector, or something else, and had to resume the scan to find the PD activity again. LOL.

Yep..remember how amazed I was when I received one of the first trunking scanners here in the triangle, my old BC235xlt (which I still have!)...whoah, I could actually hear cary pd without having to listen to the garbage trucks!!! :lol:

The new trunking systems are great so long as they aren't encrypted. It's nice being able to see the text display on the scanner at a glance.
Sadly I think encryption will be pretty standard in a few short years.

Where I am now (Texas) there are no digital trunking systems, yet. Thankfully my Pro2053 is still doing fine.

I too see trunking heading towards more encryption...we can enjoy what we have while it lasts...Happy Monitoring!
Marshall KE4ZNR
Central NC Trunked Info Website:
http://trunked.nctrafficman.net

 

[fmon]

http://www.radioreference.com/modules.php?name=TRSDB&sid=1536
This is a link to the system in the RadioReference.com database. Each site has its own set of frequencies. I've never actually heard traffic on the Downtown and NE Raleigh sites. The control channels are active, but I've never heard any talkgroups on those sites. Holly Springs and Fairgrounds are the only sites I've heard traffic on.

Are all control channels valid at the RR page? I intend to spend two days at Falls Lake on July 5 and 6, and again on July 19. Also, can anyone tell me what the CC's are for the Durham Motorola Type II Smartnet?

Thanks ia.

 

[KE4ZNR]

Here is an updated xls file of the system info for the Central NC/Wake County 800Mhz Smartzone system...please let me know of any corrections or additions!
Happy Monitoring and Happy 4th of July!
Marshall Sherard KE4ZNR
http://trunked.nctrafficman.net

 

[fmon]

Thanks for the file Marshall and a Happy 4th.

 

[fmon]

In reference to your mystery data, I have no clue but I have been hearing it as well. I did some searching and found this link:

http://www.kb9ukd.com/digital/864.0875.wav

The guy who did this recording has been hearing this sound on a system in Wisconsin. It's also a mystery to him as he has not been able to find anyone to identify it. The sound to me is the same, but it's been a number of days since I heard the one on Wake County so I cannot confirm. Can someone listen to this and see if it's the same?

Sounds like MDT to me.

 

[KE4ZNR]

Thanks for the file Marshall and a Happy 4th.

Frank,
My best to you and yours as well over the 4th
Let me know via email if you have any questions about the list!
Marshall KE4ZNR
MSherard AT nc.rr.com
Replace the AT with @