Wayne TRS help
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Having the same problem, did anyone get to the bottom of this,.
Can't get Wayne on my new 996p2
jvdet
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went up to WPC, yesterday, using 396xt the schools tg's were more active than the PD and there was a radio testing on FD tg's breifly
Alfred, Turned it off and no better, The PD comes in but i cant make anything out as with EMS.
No luck with Wayne ....Listened for a wile last night and every transmission was gargled. I could not make anything out.
Tried that and NG. ????? Dont know why i cant pick them up here in Ringwood?
From what I have seen from listening to the system, driving home to West Milford, I loose the system right at the Newark Water Plant. I think that when they upgraded the system they put in more directional antennas to cover the town and not the surrounding areas like the old system. You might be to far in Ringwood to get a full signal. I hope this might help clear up the problems that you are having.
I can't receive them in Bloomingdale either. If I take the handheld and move closer to Wayne they come in loud and clear.
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I posted this is the other Wayne PD thread last night.
From what I have seen from listening to the system, driving home to West Milford, I loose the system right at the Newark Water Plant. I think that when they upgraded the system they put in more directional antennas to cover the town and not the surrounding areas like the old system. You might be to far in Ringwood to get a full signal. I hope this might help clear up the problems that you are having.
From what I have seen from listening to the system, driving home to West Milford, I loose the system right at the Newark Water Plant. I think that when they upgraded the system they put in more directional antennas to cover the town and not the surrounding areas like the old system. You might be to far in Ringwood to get a full signal. I hope this might help clear up the problems that you are having.
Both Wayne TRS threads now merged. Lets keep all discussions of this system here for the time being...
Just an FYI, I live in the center of Wayne and every third word is choppy on my BCD396. It is not an RF signal issue. This does not occur when I'm monitoring other P25 type II TRS's. What did Wayne do to their system that has made it different?
That is what the consensus seems to be,
I will take a ride with my 325p2 this weekend and see what I get as I ride home ,
Thanks
Matt
This has been an ongoing issue for about a year now. I used to listen all the time from Florham Park (with the standard antenna!) and within Wayne; like twelve hours per day, and my BCD396XT used to sing in unison with the town's P7300s. Then it was like a switch was flipped. I think it's a LSM issue, but I'm not sure why it crept up last year. I've done a little digging, but haven't come up with anything concrete. The problems seemed to pop up concurrently with some filings with the FCC, but I think it was just administrative stuff.
When I'm stationary, it's hit or miss. I can have error rates of next to nothing, followed by error rates in excess of 70 or 80. It doesn't seem to be isolated to any particular frequency or radio ID.
I can say that the SID has changed once or twice, as has the control channel (so, chazcarly, definitely program all of them like W2SJW said... reference Easier to Read BCD996P2/XT Digital Scanner Manual if you need to learn how to do it).
I bought a stubby UHF antenna for my BCD, which seems to have boosted the control channel signal, but I don't think it has helped receive transmissions. When the communications come through clearly, the signal level indicator is very high. When the communications come through broken up, the signal level indicator is very low. I've also tried alternating between FM and NFM using the Fn + 9 (Mod) key combination and I can't tell if it makes a difference.
I have a Pro-668 with the standard antenna. It seems to pick up the system a little better than the BCD when I'm in town, but it's still terribly garbled at least half of the time regardless of whether the frequencies are programmed as FM or NFM. I'm tempted to buy a UHF antenna to see if that helps at all. On the other hand, I pick up NJICS so well, I'm tempted to just buy an antenna for that and forget about Wayne as much as it pains me.
Could it be that the simulcast was initially run in C4FM to accommodate legacy Motorola WIDE pulse radios, but switched to CQPSK last year? I have seen references to C4FM used on multi-site simulcast systems (EFJohnson, specifically, but also a vague reference to Harris experimenting with it).
When I'm stationary, it's hit or miss. I can have error rates of next to nothing, followed by error rates in excess of 70 or 80. It doesn't seem to be isolated to any particular frequency or radio ID.
I can say that the SID has changed once or twice, as has the control channel (so, chazcarly, definitely program all of them like W2SJW said... reference Easier to Read BCD996P2/XT Digital Scanner Manual if you need to learn how to do it).
I bought a stubby UHF antenna for my BCD, which seems to have boosted the control channel signal, but I don't think it has helped receive transmissions. When the communications come through clearly, the signal level indicator is very high. When the communications come through broken up, the signal level indicator is very low. I've also tried alternating between FM and NFM using the Fn + 9 (Mod) key combination and I can't tell if it makes a difference.
I have a Pro-668 with the standard antenna. It seems to pick up the system a little better than the BCD when I'm in town, but it's still terribly garbled at least half of the time regardless of whether the frequencies are programmed as FM or NFM. I'm tempted to buy a UHF antenna to see if that helps at all. On the other hand, I pick up NJICS so well, I'm tempted to just buy an antenna for that and forget about Wayne as much as it pains me.
Could it be that the simulcast was initially run in C4FM to accommodate legacy Motorola WIDE pulse radios, but switched to CQPSK last year? I have seen references to C4FM used on multi-site simulcast systems (EFJohnson, specifically, but also a vague reference to Harris experimenting with it).
I don't understand anything about modulation, but it looks like the township's sites currently have the following emission designators: 11K2F3E, 8K10F1D, 8K10F1E, 8K10F7D, 8K10F7E, 9K70D1W, and 9K80F9W.
11K2F3E (According to APCO: 2.5 kHz deviation FM "narrowband 12.5 kHz" analog voice, 11.25 kHz occupied bandwidth (11K0 and 11K3 prefixes are effectively considered the same as 11K2); 30 - 50 MHz licensees DO NOT need to convert to this.)
8K10F1D (According to APCO: P25 Phase I C4FM data)
8K10F1E (According to APCO: P25 Phase I C4FM voice (typically used for single-site systems))
8K10F7D (According to FCC: Frequency modulation; Two or more channels containing quantized or digital information; Data transmission, telemetry, telecommand)
8K10F7E (According to FCC: Frequency modulation; Two or more channels containing quantized or digital information; Telephony (including sound broadcasting))
9K70D1W (According to Harris MASTR V literature: P25 Linear Simulcast, WCQPSK)
9K80F9W (According to FCC: Frequency modulation; Composite system with one or more channels containing quantized or digital information, together with one or more channels containing analog information; Combination of the above)
Edit: Had to leave work before finishing the thought. The 9K70D1W designator (didn't appear in the township's FCC docs until 2013, well after it was up and running.
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I can't find any useful information about 8K10F7D, 8K10F7E, or 9K80F9W... not that I would even understand it anyway
8K10F7D is found on the FCC site referencing Tait DMR radios
8K10F7E is found in E.F. Johnson literature simply as a "digital emission designator" and in connection with Tait DMR radios
A Google search for 9K80F9W comes up with three results, all pointing to Wayne's FCC information. Maybe this is some kind of catch-all designator? Is that possible?
I'm just wondering if Wayne, since it did not list the 9K70D1W designator until two years after the P25 system began operation, could have been operating under some non-WCQPSK simulcast until some point last year.
8K10F7D is found on the FCC site referencing Tait DMR radios
8K10F7E is found in E.F. Johnson literature simply as a "digital emission designator" and in connection with Tait DMR radios
A Google search for 9K80F9W comes up with three results, all pointing to Wayne's FCC information. Maybe this is some kind of catch-all designator? Is that possible?
I'm just wondering if Wayne, since it did not list the 9K70D1W designator until two years after the P25 system began operation, could have been operating under some non-WCQPSK simulcast until some point last year.
Here's something to try, which I saw UPman post in the Uniden Tech Support section. He suggested that Uniden x36 users people go into Settings -> Band Defaults -> and change the appropriate band from NFM to FM. Apparently, this setting is separate and apart from the Fn + Mod shortcut.
Even though UPman specifically referenced the x36 models, I tried it on my 396XT and I think it might have made a positive difference.
Even though UPman specifically referenced the x36 models, I tried it on my 396XT and I think it might have made a positive difference.
902
Member
Yes, it is.
Each manufacturer submits their equipment to a third-party testing lab to determine their type acceptance. The emission designator is not hard-coded to say, "8K10F1E SHALL BE P25 Phase 1 voice." Instead, the testing lab looks at the characteristics and describes the emission based on their interpretation. The emission designator is like describing a house. Two story, yellow, with two car garage. It doesn't tell you what's on the inside (palatial or dump). The F7D or F7E usually means a simultaneous voice and data, which isn't incorrect, as there is overhead data within the P25 frame. The "D" is usually some form of slow speed data without voice and the "E" is primarily voice.
F9W is a unicorn emission. It technically means everything at once. In practice, manufacturers and licensees have applied it to mean (and the FCC has accepted it as) a universal catch-all emission that means voice OR data that fits within the prefix. Gettysburg discourages F9W and usually wants to see something more descriptive, even if more than one emission has to be used.
Bottom line is that emissions can be commonly one thing, but different manufacturers interpret them differently and can come up with different descriptors to say the same thing. Doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong.
Is Wayne a Harris system? (Never mind, they are. I found it a few pages back.) And, what kind of subscriber equipment are they using?
Emission Designator - The RadioReference Wiki
902
Member
And, on second thought, this could also be Harris' interpretation of a Phase 2 TDMA emission set. Can't really go purely by the EDs when there are multiple manufacturers, as each might call the same thing something different.
Thanks for the information about the designators.
Yes, as far as I know it's a "Harris" system. Back when they were transitioning over in approximately 2011, I remember a voice loop in analog saying "Harris testing: 1, 2, 3, 4...." I don't know if the year helps narrow down the equipment they were running at the control point and sites at that time.
The only portables I have personally seen on the system (police and school) are P7300s. But I've only been paying attention to the equipment recently.
Now that I'm thinking about the history, there would have been no reason to accommodate legacy Moto WIDE pulse equipment, because the town was running analog before they switched to the Harris P25 system. Unless of course, there were interoperability considerations with respect to nearby mutual aid departments.
Riding through Wayne the other day with my 436, and reception was hit or miss. One minute loud and clear, and the next minute garbled. Listening on a 996T in Verona with an outside antenna about 20 feet up, and it's perfect. Very puzzling. On the 436 it shows full signal. The 996T shows between 2-3 bars.
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