What scanner for Pickens County?

[Searay]

If you are wanting to truly monitor Pickens County I would not buy a scanner unless it will do NXDN trunking. Since the site all are 6 or more channels and multi site trunking. I my opinion I do t think there would be much enjoyment in monitoring without a trunking scanner since it would be next to impossible to follow a call or coversation.

I use a Uniden SDS100 and SDS200 and have been very impressed with the quality of performance, audio quality, and trunking performance. They are pricey but I would recommend saving up to get one of those.

 

[Bgolf]

If you are wanting to truly monitor Pickens County I would not buy a scanner unless it will do NXDN trunking. Since the site all are 6 or more channels and multi site trunking. I my opinion I do t think there would be much enjoyment in monitoring without a trunking scanner since it would be next to impossible to follow a call or coversation.

I use a Uniden SDS100 and SDS200 and have been very impressed with the quality of performance, audio quality, and trunking performance. They are pricey but I would recommend saving up to get one of those.

Do you have to purchase a NXDN upgrade for the sds100? Or is it everything already in the scanner out of the box?

 

[Searay]

You can order it with or without the upgrade at time of purchase or add it later if you wish.

 

[Bgolf]

You can order it with or without the upgrade at time of purchase or add it later if you wish.

But I have to have NXDN in order to monitor Pickens county correct? So I would have to get it from the get go

 

[Searay]

But I have to have NXDN in order to monitor Pickens county correct? So I would have to get it from the get go

I would say yes.

 

[brian]

Can you help me understand what you mean by "Talkgroup"? Is that like labeling a bank with say "Pickens county sheriff" with all the freqs for them?

With a trunked radio system, the "channels" on a radio system user's radio (ie, a law enforcement officer or ambulance or firefighter) is not associated with a frequency. It's associated with a talkgroup instead. Talkgroups are dynamically assigned to use one of a group of frequencies at the moment they are needed. This allows a larger number of talkgroups to share a smaller group of frequencies, since not all talkgroups need a frequency at the same moment.

A trunk-tracking scanner decodes the data associated with the talkgroup values as they are used. This allows you to name and follow (track) a talkgroup as it hops from one frequency to the next. Or lock a talkgroup out that you're not interested in. So, if you're only interested in listening to law enforcement, you want to be able to lock out (or "avoid" in Uniden speak) all fire and EMS talkgroups. And you want a label on each law enforcement talkgroup so you know the difference between Pickens Co Sheriff, Pickens PD, Easley PD (since they use different talkgroups).

The 160N and 260N scanners don't support trunk tracking, so they know nothing about talkgroups. All you'd be doing is scanning frequencies and decoding voice. You'd have no idea who's talking on a given frequency at any time, nor would you be able to lock out a specific agency you're not interested in. It's a very unsatisfying and frustrating way to monitor a trunked system.

 

[Bgolf]

With a trunked radio system, the "channels" on a radio system user's radio (ie, a law enforcement officer or ambulance or firefighter) is not associated with a frequency. It's associated with a talkgroup instead. Talkgroups are dynamically assigned to use one of a group of frequencies at the moment they are needed. This allows a larger number of talkgroups to share a smaller group of frequencies, since not all talkgroups need a frequency at the same moment.

A trunk-tracking scanner decodes the data associated with the talkgroup values as they are used. This allows you to name and follow (track) a talkgroup as it hops from one frequency to the next. Or lock a talkgroup out that you're not interested in. So, if you're only interested in listening to law enforcement, you want to be able to lock out (or "avoid" in Uniden speak) all fire and EMS talkgroups. And you want a label on each law enforcement talkgroup so you know the difference between Pickens Co Sheriff, Pickens PD, Easley PD (since they use different talkgroups).

The 160N and 260N scanners don't support trunk tracking, so they know nothing about talkgroups. All you'd be doing is scanning frequencies and decoding voice. You'd have no idea who's talking on a given frequency at any time, nor would you be able to lock out a specific agency you're not interested in. It's a very unsatisfying and frustrating way to monitor a trunked system.

Ok so if I'm understanding right, I would use multiple freqs (Say Pickens co sheriff) but the multiple freqs would be programmed into 1 channel labeled Pickens co sheriff. Would that be correct? I'm thinking between the 325p2 or the 436hp

 

[brian]

Not really. You'll create a "System" called something like Pickens County. You'll create a "site" for each tower site you want to monitor and put the frequencies for each site into them. Then you'll create a "department" that will hold talkgroups for each channel you want to monitor. You have have multiple departments. All of these typically go into a Favorites List. You can associate quick keys to each System, Site and/or Department that allow for easy enabling and disabling.

You really ought to read up on trunk-tracking, and on the Dymanic Memory Architecture (DMA) used by Uniden scanners.

 

[Bgolf]

P

Not really. You'll create a "System" called something like Pickens County. You'll create a "site" for each tower site you want to monitor and put the frequencies for each site into them. Then you'll create a "department" that will hold talkgroups for each channel you want to monitor. You have have multiple departments. All of these typically go into a Favorites List. You can associate quick keys to each System, Site and/or Department that allow for easy enabling and disabling.

You really ought to read up on trunk-tracking, and on the Dymanic Memory Architecture (DMA) used by Uniden scanners.

Pickens county only has two towers Six Mile and Glassy Mountain right? How many freqs are there for each Tower?

 

[brian]

FleetTalk Carolinas Trunking System, Various, Multi-State

FleetTalk Carolinas Trunking System Profile

www.radioreference.com

 

[Bgolf]

View attachment 164792

FleetTalk Carolinas Trunking System, Various, Multi-State

FleetTalk Carolinas Trunking System Profile

www.radioreference.com

I've looked over all that what confusing me is how do you know which one of those freq is Sheriff, Fire, EMS, Ect...? In order to label them by dept? Sorry to ask so many ?s and sound so ignorant I'm just new to this digital thing. And want to know as much as I can before putting money into one.

 

[daugherh]

@Bgolf , the frequency isn't the department (Sheriff, Fire, etc). When it comes to the trunking aspect, all of the frequencies at a tower site, say the Easley tower that brian listed above, for example, are sort of like a pool. That tower supports all 8 of the listed freqs. For this example, lets say we're talking about County Fire Dispatch.

Frequency pool on Easley tower:


County Fire Disp would be your talkgroup. For this, the talkgroup ID is 11671.



Lets say we have Users A, B, and C all on the Fire talkgroup.

When user A presses the PTT button, the radio sends a signal to the tower and says I need a frequency for talkgroup 11671. The repeater grants the radio a frequency out of the pool and also sends a signal to every other radio listening on group 11671 to tune to that frequency. Then the radio gives the beep saying you're good to talk. The user speaks their message and de-keys.

Now user B wants to reply. He presses the PTT and the same process happens again. The repeater may or may not give them the same frequency from the pool, but whichever one it grants user B a signal goes out to all radios listening on that talkgroup to tune to that frequency for the duration of the message.

Analog was frequency = talkgroup.
With the digital, it's frequency = frequency, talkgroup = what group is using frequency at this time.


With your scanner (if it supports trunk tracking) it knows that if you are trying to listen to fire that it has to dynamically tune to the frequency given to that talkgroup when someone starts to key their radio. If it doesn't support the trunk tracking and you just listen to the frequencies, you may hear User A call User B but may not necessarily hear the return if the repeater assigns a different frequency.

I hope that helps make it a bit more clear.

 

[Bgolf]

@Bgolf , the frequency isn't the department (Sheriff, Fire, etc). When it comes to the trunking aspect, all of the frequencies at a tower site, say the Easley tower that brian listed above, for example, are sort of like a pool. That tower supports all 8 of the listed freqs. For this example, lets say we're talking about County Fire Dispatch.

Frequency pool on Easley tower:
View attachment 164805

County Fire Disp would be your talkgroup. For this, the talkgroup ID is 11671.

View attachment 164804

Lets say we have Users A, B, and C all on the Fire talkgroup.

When user A presses the PTT button, the radio sends a signal to the tower and says I need a frequency for talkgroup 11671. The repeater grants the radio a frequency out of the pool and also sends a signal to every other radio listening on group 11671 to tune to that frequency. Then the radio gives the beep saying you're good to talk. The user speaks their message and de-keys.

Now user B wants to reply. He presses the PTT and the same process happens again. The repeater may or may not give them the same frequency from the pool, but whichever one it grants user B a signal goes out to all radios listening on that talkgroup to tune to that frequency for the duration of the message.

Analog was frequency = talkgroup.
With the digital, it's frequency = frequency, talkgroup = what group is using frequency at this time.


With your scanner (if it supports trunk tracking) it knows that if you are trying to listen to fire that it has to dynamically tune to the frequency given to that talkgroup when someone starts to key their radio. If it doesn't support the trunk tracking and you just listen to the frequencies, you may hear User A call User B but may not necessarily hear the return if the repeater assigns a different frequency.

I hope that helps make it a bit more clear.

Yes Thanks that helps, I'm just trying to figure out now which scanner would be the easiest to program. It just seems to me like all this digital stuff would be complicated to program. I was looking at the 325p2 and the 436hp. I wouldn't mind having an sds100 I'm just not sure I want to put that kind of money into one not knowing how hard it would be for me to program myself

 

[daugherh]

I can't help you there - I don't have any digital scanners; but if you need more help with understanding TGs, etc reach out! Have a good one!

 

[brian]

Yes Thanks that helps, I'm just trying to figure out now which scanner would be the easiest to program. It just seems to me like all this digital stuff would be complicated to program. I was looking at the 325p2 and the 436hp. I wouldn't mind having an sds100 I'm just not sure I want to put that kind of money into one not knowing how hard it would be for me to program myself

I can't help with the Unidens either. And to be clear, ALL modern scanners are difficult to program for folks newish to the hobby and with a limited understanding of how these radios systems work. Everyone finds themselves in that situation, so you're far from alone. Folks on here will tell you it's easy - don't listen to them, it's not easy for folks just starting out.

The 436hp and the SDS100 are both considered "home patrol" scanners, so their memory architecture is similar. They'll be more or less equally difficult to program. The SDS100 has some additional features that you may never want to use, and that can add some confusion. The 325p2 might be a little more basic in functionality but is still going to be a challenge.

The good news is that there is computer software you can use to program your scanner, which makes things much easier once you get used to it. And there is all sorts of documentation online along with a limitless number of youtube videos you can watch. The trick is that all of them seem to omit one or two implicit but critically important steps that then trip folks up. That's why you have to watch numerous video and hope you pick up all of the necessary details.

Good luck with your selection.

 

[Bgolf]

I can't help with the Unidens either. And to be clear, ALL modern scanners are difficult to program for folks newish to the hobby and with a limited understanding of how these radios systems work. Everyone finds themselves in that situation, so you're far from alone. Folks on here will tell you it's easy - don't listen to them, it's not easy for folks just starting out.

The 436hp and the SDS100 are both considered "home patrol" scanners, so their memory architecture is similar. They'll be more or less equally difficult to program. The SDS100 has some additional features that you may never want to use, and that can add some confusion. The 325p2 might be a little more basic in functionality but is still going to be a challenge.

The good news is that there is computer software you can use to program your scanner, which makes things much easier once you get used to it. And there is all sorts of documentation online along with a limitless number of youtube videos you can watch. The trick is that all of them seem to omit one or two implicit but critically important steps that then trip folks up. That's why you have to watch numerous video and hope you pick up all of the necessary details.

Good luck with your selection.

Are there any "Easier" brands than Uniden? Or what other good brands of scanners are there?

 

[brian]

The only other brand of traditional scanner that supports decoding NXDN audio is Whistler with the TRX-1 and -2. Whether you consider them "easy" or not is hard to say.

And let's be fair - while learning how these radio systems and scanners work and have to be programmed can be challenging (ie, not "easy" to most people), it can be done. Lots of people have learned how to do it. But it can be frustrating and time consuming. Those of us in the hobby for a long time are equally (or more so) interested in the technology of radio systems as much as listening. For those who "just want to listen", the learning curve can be daunting.

 

[Bgolf]

The only other brand of traditional scanner that supports decoding NXDN audio is Whistler with the TRX-1 and -2. Whether you consider them "easy" or not is hard to say.

And let's be fair - while learning how these radio systems and scanners work and have to be programmed can be challenging (ie, not "easy" to most people), it can be done. Lots of people have learned how to do it. But it can be frustrating and time consuming. Those of us in the hobby for a long time are equally (or more so) interested in the technology of radio systems as much as listening. For those who "just want to listen", the learning curve can be daunting.

Yeah that's all I enjoy doing is just listening.

 

[brian]

Yeah that's all I enjoy doing is just listening.

Yep, that's very common. Unfortunately, in this day and age, with technology where it is, "just listening" isn't easy for most of us. Unfortunately, the scanner manufacturers don't have the resources of a company like Apple, as an example, to make products with great interfaces and applications and compatibility that make owning a smart phone a breeze. Scanner programming and use is a chore, and requires a lot of specialized knowledge, and is fraught with challenges and hitches and idiosyncrasies. How many people buy a "P25 compatible" scanner only to be stymied by Simulcast? It's no wonder we're not seeing any more development of new radios, only marginal improvement of existing ones, and one of the two major manufacturers apparently on the brink of extinction.

 

[KMG54]

Yep, that's very common. Unfortunately, in this day and age, with technology where it is, "just listening" isn't easy for most of us. Unfortunately, the scanner manufacturers don't have the resources of a company like Apple, as an example, to make products with great interfaces and applications and compatibility that make owning a smart phone a breeze. Scanner programming and use is a chore, and requires a lot of specialized knowledge, and is fraught with challenges and hitches and idiosyncrasies. How many people buy a "P25 compatible" scanner only to be stymied by Simulcast? It's no wonder we're not seeing any more development of new radios, only marginal improvement of existing ones, and one of the two major manufacturers apparently on the brink of extinction.

That is were SDR will shine. No more for a small laptop or tablet wit a little horsepower and a dongle, but can be a steep learning curve for some. But if you want to stay in the game start learning now!