Where to get help mapping Motorola programming fields to CHIRP?

[Citywide173]

We're totally receptive to such details. Please share. Thanks!

Without knowing even the basic info, that's a little hard. Can you tell us, at the very least, what band you operate in?

I'd start with ebay, you can probably find something in the Motorola HT750/1250/1550 (Waris) series or the Icom F series that would meet your needs. What radios are you now using? You obviously have the Motorola RSS/CSS for something, so you could look for that series of portable to see if there are any deals available. It would give you the ability to program with something you already have. Without any info though, we can't offer specific, legal solutions.

As suggested above, SAFER grants and UASI grants are worth looking at. The UV-5R is not type accepted because it doesn't work on the designated frequency, it isn't type accepted because of the amount of harmful interference it can cause on other frequencies when operated on the designated frequency. Put yourself into the other users position. If a local business or another public safety agency had UV-5Rs in operation, and every time they talked, your frequency became unusable, how would you react? It is potentially life threatening and the radio operator doesn't have a clue they're doing it. In a public safety application, it can put lives at risk, which is the exact opposite of the intention.

 

[AI7PM]

If you are paying that much for a Motorola that can be duplicated in function by an $18.00 Chinese radio, then your Motorola dealer is taking your department to the cleaners.

There are plenty of suitable -legal- radios that will fit the role (even in active fire fighting) that can be had much cheaper.



To put it simply, your understanding is incorrect. There is no waiver for volunteer fire departments, major emergencies, low budget, didn't know, thought it was OK, some guy on the internet told you, we won't get caught, etc. The FCC rules are there for a reason. If you do not understand radios, how they work, how to program them, and how they can interfere with each other, you should not be assuming that you understand the FCC rules. Violating those rules puts the agencies license at risk. Fines can range into the thousands of dollars very easily.

I understand you are new to radio, but please, take some advice from those of us that have been in the radio industry for a long time, follow the FCC rules. It's not hard to do.

Heed EVERY word of this man's advice.

 

[davidzimmerman]

An inaccurate understanding a lot of people have, and even with FCC clarification, won't go away. All radio functions in a fire-ground/incident need to be coordinated through a COML/COMT to insure the various systems don't interfere with one another. In the scenario of use you describe, the Baeofeng front ends will probably be overloaded every time someone around transmits on an adjacent freq. If one of the Baeofengs should cause harmful interference, it's going to lead back to you as the responsible party. $$$

The cost of quality, serviceable, certificated equipment on approved freqs will seem insignificant after the fines and lawyers fees are paid.

Does your county or a nearby city EMA have a grant writer than could help you? Even used public safety grade radios are a better option than the Baeofeng route. I understand your finance issues, but you are headed in a dangerous direction with philosophies such as I quoted above, and the shortcut view of things.

this was well said i was looking at the liability.on him doing radios and if something BAD was to happen to someone who has the radio its all going to point to him.

 

[cmjonesinc]

I understand OP is trying to save money but he's definitely not going about it the right way. The used market for moto, kenwood, vertex and every other name brand radio is plentiful. It would also help if he would give out some frequencies and such but eh. Last month I bought ten vertex radios with all new antennas and batteries with a gang charger and individual chargers for $750 used from a radio dealer. That's $75 bucks a pop of good name brand type accepted equipment that I wouldnt be afraid to issue out to "non essential" personnel. It's not a hatred of Chinese radios on my end, it's a hatred of throwing cheap junk together and expecting it to be legal and function just was well as something purpose built. 2 cents.

 

[davidzimmerman]

I understand OP is trying to save money but he's definitely not going about it the right way. The used market for moto, kenwood, vertex and every other name brand radio is plentiful. It would also help if he would give out some frequencies and such but eh. Last month I bought ten vertex radios with all new antennas and batteries with a gang charger and individual chargers for $750 used from a radio dealer. That's $75 bucks a pop of good name brand type accepted equipment that I wouldnt be afraid to issue out to "non essential" personnel. It's not a hatred of Chinese radios on my end, it's a hatred of throwing cheap junk together and expecting it to be legal and function just was well as something purpose built. 2 cents.

i asked for the frequency list and his department name and county he did NOT give me a answer other than
he is not authorized to tell us the frequency's lol so my FLAG went all the WAY up the pole i would think he would give more info so we all can HELP better...

 

[cmjonesinc]

Yeah I hear that a lot when this type of topic is brought up. Like it's not listed on the fcc website and more than likely already in the database here. I'm sure who is listed on the fcc license would love to hear about someone adding import radios and distributing them without written consent. It's been beaten to death on here, "it's for emergencies", "my chief said it's okay", "they're just for listening", "we can't afford anything better". A county next to me has several stations that issued out import radios to fireman and police officers for duty use. They even have a murs frequency in them for general BSing. I just cringe when I see a cop walking up with a camo bfeng on his hip. Unfortunately some people wont listen to reasoning and it will take something terrible happening before they do.

 

[davidzimmerman]

he posted in his first post (We want our "support services" folks to be able to communicate on the fireground amongst themselves, and have the ability to talk to County and other mutual aid departments should the need arise))) what is SUPPORT SERVICES FOLKS???

 

[davidzimmerman]

i think this 1st hes NOT a volunteer or he would give his department name? 2nd don;t want to give us the LIST for everyone to see because as stated SUPPORT SERVICES? maybe hes a fire chaser who likes to monitor them and go to fires? i'm lost i would give all info asking for help.

 

[mmckenna]

Your closing comment, while intended to be clever, demonstrates you know nothing about the reality our community faces. So, if you came here at all would be shocking to you and to us. We are trying to improve our capability, but elitism (and being locked into a single provider with proprietary programming or authorized rep only support) is counterproductive to that.

P,

Several people are trying to assist you, but I think you are misunderstanding it as hostility. It's not.
Take a deep breath and relax. There are quite a few knowledgeable people here that are attempting to assist you.
You seem to be looking for simple one word answers to what can be complex questions. Without knowing your skill level, it's difficult to answer. Asking people to type out complex answers without knowing what your skill level is, really asks a lot. We're not sure where to start. It appears your experience in this area is pretty minimal, so answering a few questions would at least give us a common ground to start at. If a more direct one on one conversation would work better for you, feel free to private message one of us and we can do it that way.

Providing some background info, like frequencies or -at-least- the band you are operating in, would be helpful. There are some specific questions that have been asked that you seem to be avoiding. While I understand your desire to not tip your hand about which department you are referring to, there are a lot of variables involved. Too much withheld information raises concerns about motives and authorizations. There are FCC rules that to come into play, and most of us are not going to cross that line. We like our jobs too much.

One red flag that pops up is your referral to higher end Motorola radios. Without knowing which radios or if they are running in digital and/or trunked modes, neither which your radio will do, it's kind of asking a lot to have someone explain to you how to convert programming from one to the other. Without knowing details, it may not even be possible.

As for your other comments, if you really think that none of our agencies are in the exact same position with thin budgets and other financial challenges, you'd be mistaken. We're all in the same position. Most small agencies cannot afford $4000 radios for each person. However, we have not resorted to $18 e-Bay/Amazon radios.

You've asked for help, so how about letting people help you?

 

[Citywide173]

I had misread the initial post. I thought he was looking at the RSS/CSS directly, not just "given a printout" of the radio codeplug. I don't think there is any malicious intent, but it is obviously someone who doesn't seem to grasp the full concept of frequency coordination, licensee authorization (the local department cannot authorize third party radios onto a county system in most instances,) co-channel interference, adjacent channel interference, spurious emissions or type acceptance.

Further, I believe he is trying to apply Part 97 Section 111 (which is a whole other debate) to Part 90 Section 407 without realizing that although the FCC rules are the FCC rules, the different parts are
almost mutually exclusive and cannot be mixed and matched to justify a particular need.

As a fire buff/photographer and as a public safety official, I can sympathize with the need and desire of a volunteer department to want effective and affordable communications, but when "make it work" comes before legal and safety concerns, there is a problem. The additional unwillingness to share department/frequency information implies that there would be ramifications if he were to be identified, which makes it even more suspicious. There are no "secret" frequencies, just ones that may not be of general knowledge or high use.

There is mention of "Channel Announcement," which leads me to believe he is looking at an APX or XTS printout. There has to be a shop or system manager that can help him out-or maybe he was told that they could/would not help him out with the UV-5R and gave him the printout to show him what needed to be in the radio with the intention of him finding an acceptable radio-not using it to find resources to do an end around.

 

[mmckenna]

There has to be a shop or system manager that can help him out-or maybe he was told that they could/would not help him out with the UV-5R and gave him the printout to show him what needed to be in the radio with the intention of him finding an acceptable radio-not using it to find resources to do an end around.

I doubt any self respecting radio shop is going to help a customer put a BaoFeng on a public safety frequency. At least I hope not.

Maybe the OP is correct, time for this to be closed. Without some useful information, this isn't going to go much farther and likely just continue to deteriorate.

 

[Citywide173]

I doubt any self respecting radio shop is going to help a customer put a BaoFeng on a public safety frequency. At least I hope not.

My point exactly.

 

[K7MH]

Anther problem with the Baofeng radios is that they are not all that user friendly even when programed. It doesn't take much to throw things off with a couple inadvertent button pushes. In ham radio use, we don't mind that sort of thing so much as we are far more familiar with all of the functions and what they do.

The average guy that just needs to us it to talk to someone once in a while will never gain that much familiarity with those functions and how to get out of something they accidentally entered.
A more casual user would be lost in how to regain communications again.
There is a reason that the more common public safety radios are so simple to use.

We hams like to fiddle around with the radio and figure things out usually and use the radio on a regular basis so are more familiar with it. Most others are not interested in that.


The quality of product is also just not always there. I have a UV5R and if I squeeze the case it will jump to another memory channel!

 

[nd5y]

what is SUPPORT SERVICES FOLKS??

Probably people like this:
https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-proposes-fine-unauthorized-use-public-safety-radio-spectrum-0

 

[Citywide173]

Probably people like this:
https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-proposes-fine-unauthorized-use-public-safety-radio-spectrum-0

This is what I picture:

https://www.bostonsparks.com/
https://www.facebook.com/Box414Association/
Special Signal Fire Association​​ Providence canteen - Home
and many others like them. There is also Fire-Police in many parts of the country.

In fact, our radio guys are a branch of the "Support Services Division" of my department, which is also comprised of Materials Management (supply) and Fleet Services.

 

[davidzimmerman]

This is what I picture:

https://www.bostonsparks.com/
https://www.facebook.com/Box414Association/
Special Signal Fire Association​​ Providence canteen - Home
and many others like them. There is also Fire-Police in many parts of the country.

In fact, our radio guys are a branch of the "Support Services Division" of my department, which is also comprised of Materials Management (supply) and Fleet Services.

GREAT info guess he's NOT going to give anyone a straight answer on what he's doing for better help lol

 

[cmdrwill]

I doubt any self respecting radio shop is going to help a customer put a BaoFeng on a public safety frequency. At least I hope not. .

Very well put Mmck, we will NOT program a Baofeng radio.

 

[davidzimmerman]

Very well put Mmck, we will NOT program a Baofeng radio.

well when it stops working use it as a Door Stop? lol

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Just as an aside, a lot of folks in the radio business are newbies. I was once, as were most here, unless they were cloned from Marconi.

MmcKenna should be heeded.

Somewhere out there is a newbie radio guy who works for IT in some big department and he has been handed a Baofeng radio from some higher up, to program as a favor, for his buddy, who may or may not be a City manager, or a straight up Whacker. He picked you the newbie because you are eager to learn and please. Months later the freind of a freind gets caught making rude sounds on the radio, gets caught and then asked how he got the frequencies programmed in the radio.

Years ago when Smartnet Trunking was a thing, a guy I knew who owned a huge SMR told me he had to fire his chief tech that day, because Motorola caught him cloning radios on public radio systems.

Don't be the guy who programmed that BaoFeng for the whacker.

 

[K4EET]

plarkinjr,

Are you still around? Despite what you might think, these folks are trying to help you. Mainly, they are trying to keep you from getting into trouble. I realize that none of this helps you get that UV-5R HT programmed, but without knowing what your system(s) are, it may not work to begin with. Are your system(s) digital, encrypted, trunking, etc. That is why we all need to know what your system(s) are. I hope you have not gotten a "bad taste" for Radio Reference. It is really a GREAT place to reside and learn and participate in.

Cheers! Dave