Whether Still Junk, UPMan?

[WQPW689]

Fixing anything with the BCD536HP is a waste anymore since the radio has hardware related issues that firmware release can't fix.

What might these be?


I'd like to know since I have one. Darned if I can find anything any other comparable scanner doesn't have.

 

[Voyager]

Notice how UPMan is not much on RR anymore. He has been pretty quiet lately since there is not much more he can say to make us happy anymore. His hands are tied while Uniden is pretty much dead now. After releasing PROVOICE now what?? Nothing anytime soon.

He has made several posts over the past few days. I would imagine he is very busy, and may be at CES if not participating there.

But, I suppose part of it might be from people posting wishes that he were fired (not naming any names, but the guilty know who they are), and that Uniden were out of business. So, maybe we can thank those people for the change you are complaining about.

"Nothing anytime soon" - can I quote you on that? They have had what - three firmware updates in the past several months. Looks like they are alive and well to me.

 

[Voyager]

What might these be?


I'd like to know since I have one. Darned if I can find anything any other comparable scanner doesn't have.

There isn't anything that any other scanner doesn't have - at least nothing they aren't fixing. But, some people have already shown their hand and have made it clear they will say anything to put Uniden down.

 

[janetball1994]

Patronizing superiority went out with the Algonquin Round Table, so why don't you lose it.

Touch a nerve, did I? Pity.

 

[darunimal]

Nope your ignorance, is my bliss, but I see it is turning into stupidity, at least on my part.

 

[slicerwizard]

Of course - nobody gets bad parts. That's what all the parts manufacturers say, too. There are also no counterfeits in the market, and the SD cards never fail, and the Easter Bunny is real. :wink:

Hm. The manufacturers of my laptops, phones, cameras, and even dashcams have managed to avoid bad parts, any SD cards that came with them work properly, and so on. I guess they can't find the bad stuff, what with Uniden hogging the supply...

 

[darunimal]

Can you compare a scanner to a scanner is the real question, for someone that claims to have been a technical writer, you technically can't because you've blustered and baited, to the point I see you can't.

 

[darunimal]

Hm. The manufacturers of my laptops, phones, cameras, and even dashcams have managed to avoid bad parts, any SD cards that came with them work properly, and so on. I guess they can't find the bad stuff, what with Uniden hogging the supply...

Laptops really all 1 you've had; check out nvidia and CMOS/RTC batteries
phones you've never had a phone fail,
All 1 non-mechanical camera you've had, check out sony processor failure
Dash cameras w 15 year old CMOS 1.3 mp 640-480 enhanced
How bout LCD TV's check out capacitor

Sd cards fail when power fails pretty easy to fubar 1 in 1 sec the blame Uniden Gre or Whistler pure genius.

Companies steal others intellectual property or use them after patents expire w ZERO R&D cost, the produce copies, clones, and knockoffs at quarter of the price and pay there worker penny's on the dollar, and you want Uniden to spend millions, wth. Do you support Baufeng because I never will.

All it takes is 1 procurement person to go through a non-authorized channel to get 1,000 more of this or that, one bad supplier could have had 800 in a different location with heat for this to have had happen with the batteries, some low employee at the originial supply point may have not rotated stock as he was suppose to (saving 5 minutes w a pallet mover) Costing Uniden Hundreds of thousands in sales.

 

[slicerwizard]

Laptops really all 1 you've had; check out nvidia and CMOS/RTC batteries
phones you've never had a phone fail,
All 1 non-mechanical camera you've had, check out sony processor failure
Dash cameras w 15 year old CMOS 1.3 mp 640-480 enhanced
How bout LCD TV's check out capacitor

Laptops - have 4 laptops and 3 netbooks currently in service here. Oldest is probably at least five years old. No issues with any of them other than consumables (batteries); several are on their second battery due to heavy use.

No, none of our phones have failed. Guess we don't abuse them enough.

Half a dozen cameras in the last decade. The only failure was the one that got drenched (not by me) and it recovered after a week of drying.

Our dashcams have full HD sensors. Why would we buy 640x480 crap? And they lose power every time the key is removed, but they don't corrupt their micro SD cards because they're properly designed. Go figure.

And none of our LCD TVs have failed yet. What are we doing wrong??

 

[darunimal]

video card settlement https://www.google.com/search?sclie...88&bih=564&cad=cbv&sei=4bKUVvaqH8yZmQHBlLWAAQ
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...Q-CulzvZDZslj6Kfg&sig2=LAdHdTfVPI44KHlNYP0wag

Laptop Cmos batteries
https://www.google.com/search?q=nvi...rome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=0&ie=UTF-8#

sony digital camera processor failure
https://www.google.com/search?q=nvi...UTF-8#q=sony+digital+camera+processor+failure

samsung capacitor settlement models affected
https://www.google.com/search?sclie...=samsung+capacitor+settlement+models+affected

http://forums.radioreference.com/un...p25-simlucast-possible-solution-ponder-3.html
Read Samsung Settles HDTV Lawsuit- Millions Afffected | HD Guru

Dashcams usually sold are 1.3mp that might process into HD but are just over enhanced SD, but are rarely HD, unless they are GoPro!

All it takes is 1 procurement person to go through a non-authorized channel to get 1,000 more of this or that, one bad supplier could have had 800 in a different location with excess heat for the batteries to fail early, or some low employee at the originial supply point may have not rotated stock as he was suppose to do (saving 5 minutes w a pallet mover) COSTING Uniden Hundreds of thousands in sales. STOP CONFLATING EVERYTHING TO USE THE WORD JUNK, it's LAME.

 

[Voyager]

Yea - NEVER happens to computer manufacturers...

How a stolen capacitor formula ended up costing Dell $300m | Technology | The Guardian

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/29/technology/29dell.html?_r=0

Never happens to cellphones.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...elayed-due-faulty-parts-wsj-article-1.2204133

Apple Addresses 'Bendgate' By Strengthening Weak Points of 'iPhone 6s' Shell - Mac Rumors

White iPhone camera flaw blamed on bad knock-off parts | MacNN

And of course LED TVs would never have any issues.

More Than 7 Million Samsung TVs Plagued By Possible Power Defect « CBS Miami

BTW, note that these are issues suffered by leaders in computers, cellphones, and TVs - not some cheap knock-off companies.

Also note that while many OEM SanDisk SD cards fail, relatively few replacement SanDisk SD Cards fail. Does that mean SanDisk is better than SanDisk? BTW, I received counterfeit SanDisk cards from a reputable nationwide company.

ANYONE is susceptible. NOBODY is immune.

 

[PiccoIntegra]

Some are disgusted because they don't know the scanner, and refuse to learn how to use it. They think scanner knowledge should just "come to them" and want instant gratification. Then, they end up being the above type.

To my defense(since I'm lumped in with "the above type"), I understand more about these Uniden scanners than most common hobbyist, and I certainly don't expect anything to "come to me". I can dissect the DMA structures down to the bit level. Did you know DMA structures aren't really dynamic? It can grow in size, but doesn't reclaim used memory blocks. Dynamic Memory Architecture is just a fancy marketing term as far as I'm concerned. I do prefer DMA over the SD card method though.

You think some silly scanner setting or feature is going to confuse me? I've been around scanners for more than 30 years. They are trivial devices to operate. If there is something I don't understand, I'm fairly certain I know how to find the answer on my own. I don't need my hand held, that's for sure.

Then there are those who hate Uniden no matter what.

The only scanner I've bought in the past 15 years has been a Uniden. I've never owned a GRE/Whistler branded scanner. The primary reason for choosing the P25 "capable" radio I did, was because it was the only base model available at the time, and the open serial protocol. I couldn't care less about all the bells and whistle crap they toss in. I'd like to see Uniden make all these things pay per use, just like the ProVoice upgrade. I think they have the subscription based system(DRM) to implement such things. Make the those who want these things pay for them. It would lower the cost for the rest of us that don't want those features.

I've never wished any ill will towards Uniden, and certainly not against Paul Opitz personally. I genuinely think he is a good guy that does care about what people think of his products. I believe that he'd probably address some of the deficiencies if his hands weren't tied by the suits in Japan.

I just want my $500 P25 scanner to work as intended. When they can provide one that does, I'll shut up about it forever. They could also clarify things a bit... APCO 25 SCANNER (C4FM).

Sadly, I think it will continue to be pushed back for more popular options like DMR. I do think this will become a reality sooner rather than later. I hope they charge a large amount for it too. It will not be a $50 fee, that's for sure.

If I need an analog scanner, it would be Unidens all day long. So I don't consider myself a Uniden hater at all.

They still complain about issues that are being fixed at no cost to them, and will likely complain for years if not decades to come. Then they argue that it's all Uniden's fault - like Uniden made all the parts they used in the scanners. News Flash: They don't. In fact, few of the parts are actually made by Uniden. Same with Whistler. I'm not playing favorites here - I'm being realistic (no Radio Shack pun intended). But, not everyone lives in reality. Some people think Uniden actually makes all the parts in their scanners.

The Headphone issue should have been caught by you beta testers, The RTC and LED problems obviously didn't creep up right away. When they did, I didn't think Uniden would leave these issues hanging. I was confident they'd fix those under warranty, and they did just that. It's pretty stand up of them to extend the warranty as well. In my opinion, they made things right.

The Wifi dongle issue might have pushed the 536 release date, but we'll never know for certain since there was an information leak/hack. It's no longer important though...

It was known prior to release that the Wifi and subsequent remote apps would be delayed. For those that were aware, prior to purchase, have no one to blame but themselves. I'm sure there were a few that snuck by without knowing, but they should have done their research prior to purchase. I have no sympathy on that front..

You've made it clear on multiple occasions you're not a paid employee of Uniden. But you're not being 100% truthful in regards to your relationship with them either. Perhaps your non-disclosure agreement prevents you from stating publicly that you're a beta tester for them. You sure like to muddy up the water to cloud truths. It's borderline antagonistic.

Personally, my scanners (all of them) are "junk" because they don't let me hear a system I want to hear. Forget that it's 200 miles away. They should just improve them so I can hear what I want. Sounds like just as reasonable an argument as the others, doesn't it?

I guess I should forget I'm less than 5 miles from three towers and my Uniden scanner pukes garbage. But hey, it works great for some people. The problem must be me, right? :roll:

 

[PiccoIntegra]

Speak for yourself your the one calling names. I hope that makes you feel like a big man as I am educated in electronics, medical, and have plenty of certifications work in firefighting, twoway radio, security.

I was not referring to anyone's intelligence level. The unfortunate thing for you though, is you opened your mouth. Figuratively of course...

Listen to PROVOICE on your great Whistler.

I have no interest in Provoice, none near me. My whistler works good though... Andy Griffith jingle, zippity doo dah... etc.

I read the reviews here and when the options I wanted became real I bought both scanners.

Well, you did your homework first. But apparently, bells and whistles are your priority. There isn't anything wrong with that, if that is what is important to you. It also happens to be a common theme among the complainers of the complainers, The ratios are about the same.

I prefer the basic functionality of what a scanner is supposed to do. You know, scan. In particular, P25 radio systems. I do not believe there is a good enough product available to handle the task.

I had to adjust the settings to suit my needs and get 99.9% decode rates.

So what method did you use to determine you're getting such high decode rates? That is an exaggerated estimate in my opinion, and an unrealistic expectation. What system(s) are you monitoring, and which specific site(s). Do you know what the modulation scheme that is being used on those sites? The answer isn't "NFM" either, so I'll spare you the embarrassment.

How is the new Whistler that got upgraded to a keypad for 100 dollars and drove the 2 month old scanner down 150 dollars.

I don't know anything about that.

 

[buddrousa]

PiccoIntegra your problems are those of a few yes I understand your complaint about the LSM problems while not perfect the Unidens are better than the others but we in the scanner hobby have to understand our scanner will never be a Motorola APX7000 or APX8000 . You also have my respect as to stating the wifi and delayed apps the were stated before the scanner was released. I am not a Uniden employee nor an I a beta tester. I am a fultime paid Firefighter, Radio Tech, Security Tech that has had scanners dating back to 1970. I am monitoring the TACN phase 1 and phase 2 system, The MOWINS phase 1 and phase 2 system, the Dyersburg phase 1 system, and the KSP P25 multisite repeater system with sites from 8 miles to 45 plus miles.
Name calling using the word misinformed may have been a better choice.

 

[Voyager]

To my defense(since I'm lumped in with "the above type"), I understand more about these Uniden scanners than most common hobbyist,

Well, you say you are the miserable type who just wants to make everyone else miserable, but your actions don't seem to support that - at least not in the post I'm quoting.

I'm not going to confirm or deny any of your speculations. I will offer this: You say the headphone issue should have been caught. That assumes that the pre-production units had the issue, doesn't it? You don't have to reply. We both know the answer is yes because you are a smart guy. I'm not saying they did or didn't - I'm just saying it's possible the issue didn't exist until production. When you build prototypes (and I will admit to having a good friend who works for a prototyping company), you don't always use production parts, processes, or machines. Most times the prototypes are built by hand using part samples. Of course, the later ones may be closer to production units, but early ones are often a collection of wires.

I believe there was a picture posted a year or two ago of an early prototype x36 series scanner. It was a bunch of modules cobbled together on a desk connected by long ribbon wires.

But, again I suspect I'm not saying anything you don't already know, right? (at least with respect to the general design process)

I guess I should forget I'm less than 5 miles from three towers and my Uniden scanner pukes garbage. But hey, it works great for some people. The problem must be me, right? :roll:

I wouldn't say it's necessarily you. It might be the system. I too am within 5 miles of at least 3 towers, and I don't have any issues - at least none that are not avoidable. Point is there are lots of things that can cause problems, and not all can be blamed on the scanner or its design.

Do I believe the design could be better? Yes. Am I going to say it's a flaw? No. Just as certain price vs parts vs feature choices must be made, I don't believe it's fair to say that just because it could have been better means it should have been better. when you do that you miss price points.

Design - like everything else in life - is a compromise.

I have designed radios as well (primarily in the firmware side, but with some hardware design), and I, like you, am not untested in many of these areas.

But, I'm still confused by why you say you're part of the miserable minority. All the evidence points to the contrary.

 

[janetball1994]

. . .but I see it is turning into stupidity, at least on my part.

You're such a wordmeister, Da.

 

[PiccoIntegra]

PiccoIntegra your problems are those of a few yes I understand your complaint about the LSM problems while not perfect the Unidens are better than the others

I do not believe that to be true statement. I think both brands of scanners are equally as bad as the other. I've seen GRE/Whistler folks say the same thing against the Uniden counterparts. It's a never ending debate...

but we in the scanner hobby have to understand our scanner will never be a Motorola APX7000 or APX8000 .

I do no expect them to be, nor should they ever be compared to one another. These scanner don't have to be as bad as they are if they would do their research and design them properly. It's not a trivial thing to pull off, I'll concede that. They have been using the same basic design now for more than a decade. It's time for them to start from a clean slate. A raw IQ demodulator at baseband with a true DSP chip, and the rest is software. I'm sure it wouldn't be easy mixing an analog and digital based scanner together. But those engineers in Japan are smart people. I think they'd be able to do it if they understood what they were up against.

I am not a Uniden employee nor an I a beta tester. I am a fultime paid Firefighter, Radio Tech, Security Tech that has had scanners dating back to 1970.

I didn't suspect you had any ties to Uniden. I also wasn't trying to insult anyone's intelligence. The ignorance comment was more of a broad statement that meant just because it works for you, doesn't mean it will work for everyone else. In the same vain, I don't expect those who have never had to deal with such aggravation and frustration to understand what it's like to have such poor decoder performance. Go listen to that feed I posted previously. See how long you can stand to put up with such garbage. Now imagine spending $500 only to get the same exact result, and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.

I am monitoring the TACN phase 1 and phase 2 system, The MOWINS phase 1 and phase 2 system, the Dyersburg phase 1 system, and the KSP P25 multisite repeater system with sites from 8 miles to 45 plus miles.

Well, I can't look up site modulation unless I know which ones you have programmed. But isn't important anyway. If you're happy with your radios, that's all that matters. But understand, that it isn't always the case for everybody else.

 

[KA2ZEY]

My 436 gets the job done very nice in the extremely RF saturated NYC area. The layout is absolutely terrific and the fact that firmware updates for new modes are possible is really great. I don't have Provoice in my are but hoping for a nice little DMR update ; )

 

[MStep]

Notice how UPMan is not much on RR anymore. He has been pretty quiet lately since there is not much more he can say to make us happy anymore. His hands are tied while Uniden is pretty much dead now. After releasing PROVOICE now what?? Nothing anytime soon. Fixing anything with the BCD536HP is a waste anymore since the radio has hardware related issues that firmware release can't fix.

So not sure what more else to say at this point. I guess we will just have to wait and see what Uniden is going to do in 2016. Whistler ain't doing any better either with their new releases either. I see a little hope for AOR with their AR- DV1 radio.

Paul Opitz seems to be caught between proverbial rock and the hard place. But I don't necessarily agree that any issues with the 536 are strictly hardware related. The Android app seems to be software/firmware related, as is expansion of the Analyze function. Not really sure about your statement that "Uniden is pretty much dead now"--- I think they still have a few surprises up their sleeve.

The DV1 is a great radio, for what it does, but it will never replace a full-fledged trunking scanner. It does work very nicely on DMR transmissions.

There is no "one size fits all" single radio that is ever going to be able to do it all.

 

[PiccoIntegra]

Well, you say you are the miserable type who just wants to make everyone else miserable, but your actions don't seem to support that - at least not in the post I'm quoting.

I'm not at all the miserable type. I don't understand how you came to that conclusion. I'm generally quiet and stay out of this crap. But every once in a while something sets me off and I was able to provide an example of what it's like to deal with such nonsense. If no one complains, how would they ever know there are issues.?

I will offer this: You say the headphone issue should have been caught. That assumes that the pre-production units had the issue, doesn't it?

Yes, are correct. I now remember that coming up once or twice before. Just one of many times that memory has failed me. I heard it gets worse with age...

I wouldn't say it's necessarily you. It might be the system.

I don't buy the "it's the system" defense either. The reason being is because I have two linux computers running OP25(one laptop to move about the house and outside) set up to decode this troublesome system. It does not matter one bit where the antenna is located, I get excellent copy of all transmission and no missed calls or drop-outs. There are occasional blips, but more often then not, the SU is asked to repeat their transmission.

I've been running this set up now for almost two years. So I know a little about what it's like to decode such a system. It isn't for everybody, and it's not the most portable solution available. But it does get the job done, and does it very well.

Do I believe the design could be better? Yes. Am I going to say it's a flaw? No. Just as certain price vs parts vs feature choices must be made, I don't believe it's fair to say that just because it could have been better means it should have been better. when you do that you miss price points.

Well, ten years ago I might have agreed with you. But here we are today, with the same basic design they've always used. The fact of the matter is, there are several new/upgraded P25 systems popping up almost weekly across the country that will require a better design to properly decode these systems. Again, I don't think this is anything trivial by any means. But it is time for them to step up their game. Like I said before, when they do, I'll STFU about it once and for all.

Meanwhile, I'm enjoying the hell out of SDR stuff.