Why I am not going DSTAR

[kayn1n32008]

... I do not think that it is fair that DSTAR leaves the anolog user out in the cold.

REALLY, easiest way to "not be left out in the cold" is to get involved and buy a radio... like I did.

...I think the comment stems from being a DSTAR user who wants to protect your personal interest.

Actually it is not about 'protecting interest', it is about debunking myths, misconceptions but mostly people's ignorance.

...As matter of record everyone is biased to on degree or another and will tend to protect their position as well.

This is another out there remark... At least I am able to see what DStar has to offer, and get involved with this mode. i have had fun with DStar, and am enjoying learning something new. you should go buy a DStar radio, and try it out, talk to some people and get over your preconceived problems... kinda like I did.

Wait for a deal to come up on a used radio, and jump in. I found my IC-92ad, GPS Sp/Mic, extra Li-ion battery, AA case, rapid charger and software/cable for LESS than 50% of what it would cost to buy everything new... including shipping to my door. Now I am going to wait for a IC-2820 to come up for a decent price and I will Jim on it. Although I am enjoying DStar, I still do not care for Icom radios. But until another company makes a portable and mobile radio they are the only game in town with our and external interface... Oh well, Icom it is...

Thank you for your opinion you have the right to it.

As do you, I just wish you would be open to trying something new.




Sent from an unknown place...

 

[Hamradiostuffing]

REALLY, easiest way to "not be left out in the cold" is to get involved and buy a radio... like I did.



Actually it is not about 'protecting interest', it is about debunking myths, misconceptions but mostly people's ignorance.



This is another out there remark... At least I am able to see what DStar has to offer, and get involved with this mode. i have had fun with DStar, and am enjoying learning something new. you should go buy a DStar radio, and try it out, talk to some people and get over your preconceived problems... kinda like I did.

Wait for a deal to come up on a used radio, and jump in. I found my IC-92ad, GPS Sp/Mic, extra Li-ion battery, AA case, rapid charger and software/cable for LESS than 50% of what it would cost to buy everything new... including shipping to my door. Now I am going to wait for a IC-2820 to come up for a decent price and I will Jim on it. Although I am enjoying DStar, I still do not care for Icom radios. But until another company makes a portable and mobile radio they are the only game in town with our and external interface... Oh well, Icom it is...



As do you, I just wish you would be open to trying something new.




Sent from an unknown place...

I am trying somthing new it's P25 I run digital and analog on the same quantar repeater. I also bought an V82 DSTAR radio and I like P25 over DSTAR.

73's

 

[N8OHU]

I am trying somthing new it's P25 I run digital and analog on the same quantar repeater. I also bought an V82 DSTAR radio and I like P25 over DSTAR.

73's

It sounds like you're just upset that your D-Star repeaters don't get much activity for whatever reason and think it would be better if they could be used by analog users too; as I said though, it would be extremely rare to find one due to the fact that they can be networked and almost certainly are if there is Internet available at the repeater site.

 

[N7QOR]

This business of mixed mode (just so people dont feel left out) is kind of absurd. Let's say for example that we do want to enable mixed mode so that analog users don't feel "left out".

Well, the users who are equipped with the digital radio would be able to use both modes, likely feeling "included".

However, no matter WHAT digital mode we are discussing, IF the system is configured for "mixed mode", the analog users will only be able to hear the analog traffic. But when digital traffic passes, the analog user will still be "left out".

That makes this whole "feeling left out" business a non starter.

 

[Hamradiostuffing]

This business of mixed mode (just so people dont feel left out) is kind of absurd. Let's say for example that we do want to enable mixed mode so that analog users don't feel "left out".

Well, the users who are equipped with the digital radio would be able to use both modes, likely feeling "included".

However, no matter WHAT digital mode we are discussing, IF the system is configured for "mixed mode", the analog users will only be able to hear the analog traffic. But when digital traffic passes, the analog user will still be "left out".

That makes this whole "feeling left out" business a non starter.

Actually leaving Hams out who may not be able to or want to afford new digital radios is a valid complaint. Considering the new equipment is so expensive, and since several companies who I will leave nameless are the ones selling digital who has the most to gain for the they are selling. Hearing a digital burst maybe annoying to an anolog user but it will make the transistion easier for them so they can wait for the prices to come down and to see which digital mode that becomes the standard.


One thing I know about digital either it works or it doesn't.

 

[N7QOR]

So how would running A "mixed mode" repeater NOT "leave someone out"

If a user is running analog, that is ALL THEY WILL HEAR

Are you under the impression that a digital repeater running mixed mode will some how magically re encode the digital message into analog for the analog user to hear?

Last I heard that doesn't happen.

Which means, as stated above, the analog user is STILL "left out"

Actually leaving Hams out who may not be able to or want to afford new digital radios is a valid complaint. Considering the new equipment is so expensive, and since one company who I will leave nameless is the one one selling digital who has the most to gain for that specific digital mode. Hearing a digital burst maybe annoying to an anolog user but it will make the transistion easier for them so they can wait for the prices to come down and to see which digital mode that becomes the standard.


One thing I know about digital either it works or it doesn't.

 

[N8OHU]

Actually leaving Hams out who may not be able to or want to afford new digital radios is a valid complaint. Considering the new equipment is so expensive, and since one company who I will leave nameless is the one one selling digital who has the most to gain for that specific digital mode.

Again, the unnamed manufacturer isn't the only source for equipment for D-Star, unless all you want to do is connect power and talk, which is all right for some people.

Hearing a digital burst maybe annoying to an anolog user but it will make the transistion easier for them so they can wait for the prices to come down and to see which digital mode that becomes the standard.

As I told a friend of mine, setting a PL tone on receive is a good way to reduce the annoyance factor for those that will never adopt digital.

One thing I know about digital either it works or it doesn't.

And it generally works more clearly over a longer distance than Analog does.

 

[Hamradiostuffing]

So how would running A "mixed mode" repeater NOT "leave someone out"

If a user is running analog, that is ALL THEY WILL HEAR

Are you under the impression that a digital repeater running mixed mode will some how magically re encode the digital message into analog for the analog user to hear?

Last I heard that doesn't happen.

Which means, as stated above, the analog user is STILL "left out"

With a P25 an anolog user can still use the system versus a digital only system that only supports digital radios. No I never said an anolog user can demodulate the digital signal, but they still can use an anolog radio on a P25 or Fusion machine on the same pair. Can DSTAR do that? Not from what I have seen.

 

[Hamradiostuffing]

Again, the unnamed manufacturer isn't the only source for equipment for D-Star, unless all you want to do is connect power and talk, which is all right for some people.



As I told a friend of mine, setting a PL tone on receive is a good way to reduce the annoyance factor for those that will never adopt digital.



And it generally works more clearly over a longer distance than Analog does.

If you are talking about the usb dongle the rest of the story is that it requires a computer to be interfaced with audio in and out of the radio. So how practicle is it to carry a hand held in one hand with a laptop in the other? Digital may work over long distances better only if the packets can be decoded but drop out completely in some cases and person will not get any of the transmission.

 

[N8OHU]

If you are talking about the usb dongle the rest of the story is that it requires a computer to be interfaced with audio in and out of the radio. So how practicle is it to carry a hand held in one hand with a laptop in the other? Digital may work over long distances better only if the packets can be decoded but drop out completely in some cases and person will not get any of the transmission.

There is a lot more third party hardware than just the DV-Dongle and DVAP-Dongle; there are several versions of the DV-RPTR board that have an optional AMBE vocoder addon that can be connected to any brand radio that has a plug that provides access to the right audio signals inside the radio. There are other options as well, but I happen to own a DV-RPTR V1 with the AMBE addon as well as two DV-Dongles and a DVAPDongle and my Icom transceivers. I also own an XPR6500 MotoTRBO handheld transceiver. You keep choosing to ignore that Digital Mixed Mode repeaters in Amateur service use are extremely rare if the manufacturer provides a networking option, which is the case with every such system available.

 

[N7QOR]

In Western WA, where you live, there are over 500 analog repeaters in service.

I find it LAUGHABLE that this is an " issue" at all.

Particularly given the analog user in this fictitious scenario is STILL going to be "left out" until he/she decides to purchase digital capable gear.

With a P25 an anolog user can still use the system versus a digital only system that only supports digital radios. No I never said an anolog user can demodulate the digital signal, but they still can use an anolog radio on a P25 or Fusion machine on the same pair. Can DSTAR do that? Not from what I have seen.

 

[N8OHU]

In Western WA, where you live, there are over 500 analog repeaters in service.

I find it LAUGHABLE that this is an " issue" at all.

Particularly given the analog user in this fictitious scenario is STILL going to be "left out" until he/she decides to purchase digital capable gear.

It seems his definition of "left out" is different from ours. His definition seems to be not being able to use the repeater at all, rather than not being able to decode the digital side.

 

[Hamradiostuffing]

It seems his definition of "left out" is different from ours. His definition seems to be not being able to use the repeater at all, rather than not being able to decode the digital side.

exactly.

 

[N7QOR]

Which is ridiculous given;

1) there are WELL OVER 500 repeaters in Western WA (where HAMRADIOSTUFFING and I both live)

2) The FCC recognizes a repeater owner's RIGHT to rtestrict access to repeaters.

In the end, there are ample opportunities for any random HAM who chooses to "work" repeaters.
And to use this as a reason to hate on a mode (of any kind) seems rather silly to me.

It seems his definition of "left out" is different from ours. His definition seems to be not being able to use the repeater at all, rather than not being able to decode the digital side.

 

[Hamradiostuffing]

Which is ridiculous given;

1) there are WELL OVER 500 repeaters in Western WA (where HAMRADIOSTUFFING and I both live)

2) The FCC recognizes a repeater owner's RIGHT to rtestrict access to repeaters.

In the end, there are ample opportunities for any random HAM who chooses to "work" repeaters.
And to use this as a reason to hate on a mode (of any kind) seems rather silly to me.

It is ridulous to you in your opinion. Labling a objective conversation is silly and the number repeaters in an area is not the issue. We are talking about how the digital formats compare to each other.

 

[N7QOR]

Actually the title of this thread is "Why I will NOT..." and seems to be designed to denigrate one particular mode.

 

[MTS2000des]

So how would running A "mixed mode" repeater NOT "leave someone out"

If a user is running analog, that is ALL THEY WILL HEAR

Are you under the impression that a digital repeater running mixed mode will some how magically re encode the digital message into analog for the analog user to hear?

Last I heard that doesn't happen.

Which means, as stated above, the analog user is STILL "left out"

Mixed mode operation on P25 phase 1 and NXDN repeaters still allow local analog users to use the infrastructure. In both cases, the analog users are restricted to local operation (no IP linking) and obviously no digital "features" like alias display (unless they use MDC, Fleetsync, etc), no text messaging, or digital audio benefits.

There is a P25 2 meter machine setup like there here in north GA. The majority of users are analog. I setup my P25 radios for mixed mode, so I can still RX on analog, but TX on P25. My XTS radios will automatically switch between analog and P25 for RX (but TX is slaved to whatever mode it is programmed to).

NXDN radios and repeaters can be setup the same. As far as being "left out", analog users of say, a club who bank rolls such an implementation can still use the repeater locally. Sure, only ONE user can occupy the channel at a time! (which is why I prefer DMR) but this doesn't go away with NXDN, D-star or P25 phase 1. Only DMR allows for TWO digital users to share the SAME repeater at the SAME time.

Supposedly the new Yaesu "C4FM FDMA" repeater has the capability to "cross mode". In other words, a digital user can transmit digital INTO the repeater and the repeater decode the digital audio and transmit on ANALOG and vice versa. Not sure what the benefit is of this.

 

[N8OHU]

It is ridulous to you in your opinion. Labling a objective conversation is silly and the number repeaters in an area is not the issue. We are talking about how the digital formats compare to each other.

Icom made some silly business decisions, in my opinion, but you don't see me complaining about them, do you?

 

[Hamradiostuffing]

Actually the title of this thread is "Why I will NOT..." and seems to be designed to denigrate one particular mode.

Okay take it as a personal attack then if you want to.

 

[Hamradiostuffing]

Icom made some silly business decisions, in my opinion, but you don't see me complaining about them, do you?

No I not hear you complianing about it and I am not going to talk about that either.