WISCOM (2010)

[sfd119]

If the counties plan ahead there will be very little loos of interoperability. In most cases more. Trunking channels and Conventional channels can coexist in the same zone/bank. The issue is with scanning, in order to scan conv. and Trunking, the radio has to affiliate and unaffiliate with WISCOM and then scan Conv. This is were the loss of conversation is and why it is not recommended to use a scan list with Trunking and Conventional in it. This is why county scan talk-groups were created.

As far as interop goes if a squad needs to to another county and needs to communicate with them, they have the STACs and RTACs. The state worked on a county Connect Project and most counties have the RTACs and STACs in a radio in their EOC and/or Dispatch. Additionally many counties' squads that are WISCOM capable have the STACs and RTACs in them. Not to mention still having the VLAWs, VTACs, and MARCs.

I would argue that Interoperability will be increased, in most cases cars cannot leave their county unless requested to do so through MA agreement by calling through dispatch. State Patrol are the one's that really need to listen to everybody, and they already have several radios in their cars that will solve the issue.

Not all radios around here are capable of WISCOM. Most squads still have Astro Spectras and there's no money for upgrade.

The big one I am thinking right now is the DNR and Local Fire departments. They'll suffer if they're not on WISCOM. DNR has to talk to their dispatch, county dispatch, *and* have to communicate with the local FD on the ground.

Right now, some squads can pick and choose who they want in their scan lists. If they were on WISCOM, the state picks it in a sense because of the scan traffic. Just hearing the scan TGs and I can tell you it's not going to work out all nice. Some squads like listening to Fire/EMS traffic from other counties, others don't. Sometimes the radio traffic is scratchy, and then add the digital aspect to it, it comes across the TG even worse.

Don't get me wrong, I believe WISCOM is a great system...if everyone is on board with it.

 

[ScanWI]

The big one I am thinking right now is the DNR and Local Fire departments. They'll suffer if they're not on WISCOM. DNR has to talk to their dispatch, county dispatch, *and* have to communicate with the local FD on the ground.

I guess this is a case were they would just switch to the county dispatch in their radio, instead of using their WISCOM TG. The DNR is one agency that I 'm not sure will do a agency wide switch since they go through the county they are in. I think they will migrate as the counties do.

I think WISCOM is also a great system but with any system there are going to be issues and I think that no matter how hard you try interoperability will never be perfect.

 

[4006]

Hot off the press...WISCOM appears to be gaining attention in Milwaukee County:

Suburban officials want brakes put on digital emergency radio vendor - JSOnline

 

[box23]

I was trying to tip toe around the subject for various reasons and I see it didn't quite work, although it did generate a nice bit of discussion.

My comments regarding interop with Douglas LE is due to the very real possibility of them transitioning to full-time secure operation. This would include both the County and City PD. At this point it is really just a rumor, but from an extremely credible source so don't be surprised.

This is not meant to derail the thread or start any discussion on the topic, just present a bit of information believed to be true. The decision to go dark appears to be purely a political one and nothing more. All of us here know, as well as some much closer to the agencies, that it is a very bad idea. But since when has that ever stopped such things? Please take this for what it is worth at this point (just information, possibly in error, posted to the internet), and wait to see what actually happens.

Now, as for the constructive discussion at hand:

Scanning on a system radio is not reliable for those reasons mentioned with the additional issue of no priority as in the conventional sense. If scanning purely system talkgroups and one becomes active you will not hear any traffic on "your" talkgroup. I've seen this happen many times on another system, although there are ways around it.

There are many ways to go about doing it, but it is going to take a lot of good communications between agencies, something that doesn't happen very often. One simple way is to keep a single transmitter from the old system and patch the main dispatch talkgroup to it, such as Sawyer County is doing.

Even "evil" scanners are a very good, and inexpensive (as compared to a >$1500 system radio), way to accomplish it. Some agencies understand this, but for most all they think they are good for is the media and the nosy public.

If the RCALLx1 talkgroups are used for broadcasts as recommended in the administrative manual that would also provide a great way to keep everyone informed.

So many options, but somehow politics always gets in the way of good solutions.

 

[box23]

Hot off the press...WISCOM appears to be gaining attention in Milwaukee County:

Suburban officials want brakes put on digital emergency radio vendor - JSOnline

I like how the City is suggesting OpenSky as a solution....

 

[N9NRA]

I was trying to tip toe around the subject for various reasons and I see it didn't quite work, although it did generate a nice bit of discussion.

My comments regarding interop with Douglas LE is due to the very real possibility of them transitioning to full-time secure operation. This would include both the County and City PD. At this point it is really just a rumor, but from an extremely credible source so don't be surprised.

This is not meant to derail the thread or start any discussion on the topic, just present a bit of information believed to be true. The decision to go dark appears to be purely a political one and nothing more. All of us here know, as well as some much closer to the agencies, that it is a very bad idea. But since when has that ever stopped such things? Please take this for what it is worth at this point (just information, possibly in error, posted to the internet), and wait to see what actually happens.

Now, as for the constructive discussion at hand:

Scanning on a system radio is not reliable for those reasons mentioned with the additional issue of no priority as in the conventional sense. If scanning purely system talkgroups and one becomes active you will not hear any traffic on "your" talkgroup. I've seen this happen many times on another system, although there are ways around it.

There are many ways to go about doing it, but it is going to take a lot of good communications between agencies, something that doesn't happen very often. One simple way is to keep a single transmitter from the old system and patch the main dispatch talkgroup to it, such as Sawyer County is doing.

Even "evil" scanners are a very good, and inexpensive (as compared to a >$1500 system radio), way to accomplish it. Some agencies understand this, but for most all they think they are good for is the media and the nosy public.

If the RCALLx1 talkgroups are used for broadcasts as recommended in the administrative manual that would also provide a great way to keep everyone informed.

So many options, but somehow politics always gets in the way of good solutions.

Hey Box23, i just sent you a pm regarding this post, have a read and pm me back with any thoughts ya might have . Thanx! N9NRA

 

[Thunderbolt]

I see that Kewaunee County plans on building a Project 25 TRS that will become part of WISCOM. The license application is currently pending before the FCC. Any idea when this system should be completed and online?

73's

Ron

 

[gregp74]

Ugh I am trying to figure out these new single channel trunked frequencies in my new BCD396XT for Rock County. So confusing!

 

[bc780l]

Rock Co is "conventional" P25--not trunked single channel in the trunking definition. Program them as a conventional digital channel with the NAC. Works just fine.

 

[SB-Wi]

Program them as a conventional digital channel with the NAC. Works just fine.

IF you want to see unit ID's, they need to be programmed as single channel trunking.

 

[gregp74]

IF you want to see unit ID's, they need to be programmed as single channel trunking.

Would seeing the unit IDs be the only difference? I'd still get the same traffic?

 

[SB-Wi]

Would seeing the unit IDs be the only difference? I'd still get the same traffic?

The audio traffic will be the same for either setup. I know that to see ID's, it needs to be single frequency trunking.

Also, remember to stay on topic with your posts or create a new thread. Since your original question isn't related to WISCOM, it should have been a new thread in Wisconsin Radio Discussion Forum or, since it applies to Uniden scanners, in Uniden Scanners.

 

[11charlie3]

My question is this... Without being able to "scan" other talkgroups without having a priority channel, how is the system supposed to be better for interoperability? Not only can you no longer scan conventional, but you can't scan other Wiscom talkgroups either. Sure you can patch the conventional channels to a scan talkgroup but what good is that is you can't even scan that talkgroup?

 

[OpSec]

My question is this... Without being able to "scan" other talkgroups without having a priority channel, how is the system supposed to be better for interoperability? Not only can you no longer scan conventional, but you can't scan other Wiscom talkgroups either. Sure you can patch the conventional channels to a scan talkgroup but what good is that is you can't even scan that talkgroup?

While understandable, your concern is somewhat circular.

If more than one user is on a talkgroup at a given site or if a talkgroup is forced to transmit regardless of users affiliated to it, non-priority scan works just fine. Why do you think a system user can't scan a talkgroup like the xxSCAN groups? If they couldn't scan them, there'd be no point in having them. The xxSCAN talkgroups are forced out on a site that covers that particular county for the specific purpose of being able to scan them as a priority or non-priority scan list member.

There is no doubt that scanning works differently on a system like WISCOM than it does with conventional non-trunked systems,but it doesn't mean that there is no scanning. Perhaps the biggest change is when listening to the system with a scanner as there is probably a significant amount of traffic that a passive scanner can't/won't hear on a regular basis that a properly programmed system radio can if needed.

 

[SB-Wi]

My question is this... Without being able to "scan" other talkgroups without having a priority channel, how is the system supposed to be better for interoperability? Not only can you no longer scan conventional, but you can't scan other Wiscom talkgroups either. Sure you can patch the conventional channels to a scan talkgroup but what good is that is you can't even scan that talkgroup?

My understanding is that interoperability is for communication between agencies, not necessarily monitoring. In this regard, WISCOM is perfect as long as all units have a radio on the system. "Wisconsin Interoperable System for Communications"

 

[sjgostovich]

Sawyer County

Is Sawyer Co having issues with their system? I was up to Washburn Co this week and they kept switching back to their analog system and it seemed like the field units were having a lot of problems being heard. Are there really that many kinks to work out or is it just on Sawyer Co's end?

 

[n9upc]

Not all units is Sawyer County are on WISCOM and some are still coming through the crosspatch between the old analog channels and WISCOM talkgroups.

Many EMT's and Firefighters are still carrying around analog radios simply due to the cost of digital radios. Being that the patch is still in place and will be to a degree it is a lot easier to issue a $250-$400 portable to an EMT than it is a $1,500+ portable.

 

[sjgostovich]

I kind of figured that was the case with some of the agencies up there. I did actually hear them say several times that they needed the field units to "use the old system" due to reception issues. When it does work, it seems to work great though. I guess they have a few bugs to work out. I'll be up to Trego this weekend so I can do some monitoring (gotta test the new Home Patrol unit out!!).

 

[N9NRA]

Hey, just wondering, as i`ve been hearing some chatter recently on the Ham bands about this, but does anyone heppen to know when the DNR plans to do the switchover to WISCOM? Got to wondering after i heard some conversations about stuff related to it. Thanx! N9NRA

 

[sfd119]

DNR is holding off this year from what I've heard. Probably next Fire Season too.