XPR 7550E for DMR question

Status
Not open for further replies.

gman1971

Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2020
Messages
159
As for an XPR7550e with SMA, forget the IS one... there is a Motorola XPR7550e CallBox kit that has SMA like the XPR6550...

Motorola # HK2079 for VHF
Motorola # HK2080 for UHF

IIRC... I think there is one for 800 mhz... but not sure if many people have a need for those.

BTW, You can only order those directly via dealers, they don't sell them, and they are not cheap. But you get an SMA.

I'll be getting a callbox kit shortly, and will run ISOTEE tests on that radio, along with range tests vs. the its bolt antenna counterpart, find out which one is really better as a portable. But insofar, the 7550e has beat my 6550 SMA by an ample margin... so I don't think the bolt antenna is that bad, for portable use, that is.

G.
 
Last edited:

gman1971

Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2020
Messages
159
LMAO... I didn't realize it was a Super Moderator he who threw the grenade...err... the piece of crap in the middle of a very serious and scientifically backed Motorola conversation... b/c you know... absolute Motosnobs fanboys like me don't like serious threads derailed with crap radios... LOLOL. j/k haha...

G.
 

kayn1n32008

ØÆSØ
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
6,638
Location
Sector 001
What you will notice is the inaction difference between the SMA and bolt when there is no antenna on the radios. The SMA will be better in that way
 

kayn1n32008

ØÆSØ
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
6,638
Location
Sector 001
I'll be getting a callbox kit shortly, and will run ISOTEE tests on that radio, along with range tests vs. the its bolt antenna counterpart, find out which one is really better as a portable. But insofar, the 7550e has beat my 6550 SMA by an ample margin... so I don't think the bolt antenna is that bad, for portable use, that is.

G.

the XPR7550 receiver is light-years ahead of the XPR6550 despite the bolt antenna.
 

gman1971

Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2020
Messages
159
the XPR7550 receiver is light-years ahead of the XPR6550 despite the bolt antenna.

Yes, it is. It demolished the XPR6550 in every test I've performed to the radios so far.

As for callbox vs bolt, inaction difference If there is no antenna on the radio it doesn't really matter... as I have no plans on using the radios without antennas... or at least, that is the plan... use the radio with an antenna.

Whatever magic sauce is inside the XPR7550e works... Rodinia, Rodina, whatever it is... its just pretty darn good.

G.
 

devicelab

Whacker Extraordinaire
Joined
Jul 18, 2016
Messages
1,534
Location
Nowhere in WA
One thing that kept me away from the XPR7550 is the fact that it's not easy to add an external antenna.

Why not just buy the TRBO adapter from K6ASF. It works perfectly.

 

gman1971

Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2020
Messages
159
Why not just buy the TRBO adapter from K6ASF. It works perfectly.


That adapter has a lot of RF leakage, its not exactly the same as a Callbox kit, although its certainly orders of magnitude cheaper... that is for sure.

If you really want an SMA you could try doing what someone in another forum did, remove the bolt antenna socket from the PCB, replace the hirose connector with a U.fl connector and use a short female SMA-F to U.fl. mini coax bolted to the case. Its not easy, but certainly doable if you are skilled enough with the soldering iron, and courageous enough to crack open your 400 dollar radio and start replacing parts... I am certainly not... tho.

In the end whether Motorola screwed up or not with the "nonsensical" bolt doesn't matter. Reality is that if you want an SMA you have to either perform the SMA mod, fork the cash for an XPR7550e Callbox or simply buy a used XPR5550 and use that for your mobile rig... like its been already suggested on this thread.

Having the M on your side doesn't come cheap, I can assure you of that... but then, having a radio that can produce crystal clear audio when no other radio I own can, then that makes it all worth it.

G.
 

AK9R

Lead Wiki Manager and almost an Awesome Moderator
Super Moderator
Joined
Jul 18, 2004
Messages
9,369
Location
Central Indiana
LMAO... I didn't realize it was a Super Moderator he who threw the grenade...err... the piece of crap in the middle of a very serious and scientifically backed Motorola conversation...
Hey, someone suggested that a mobile radio might be the solution to another poster's problem.

I'm looking forward to your scientific measurements of "range".

BTW, I don't get paid for providing comic relief, so consider it a free, added bonus.
 
Last edited:

gman1971

Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2020
Messages
159
LOL, I was being sarcastic about the "scientifically backed Motorola conversation...

But all joking aside, I can safely state that using an ISOTEE there is a measurable 35-40 dBm difference in Effective Sensitivity vs. the XPR5550e on every CCR mediocrity I've tested... and if a 35 dBm isn't "scientifically measurable" enough difference, then I don't know what is; especially for simplex ground to ground operation.

G.
 

N4KVE

Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2003
Messages
4,126
Location
PALM BEACH, FLORIDA
My sensitivity test for a radio may not be scientific, but it’s real world. I try to receive a repeater that’s 60 miles away. I’m standing in my driveway with my 7550, & 7550e. I hear the repeater on both radios. One step to the left, & the repeater on both radios is gone. One step back to the right, & I’m hearing the repeater on both radios again. No difference between the 2 radios no matter what the brochure says. The 6550 will not receive the same repeater from the same spot. But either way, since the repeater is 60 miles away, while the 7550 hears the repeater, & the 6550 doesn’t, none of the radios get into the repeater, so what good is the extra sensitivity? The big plus with the Gen 2 radios is the full UHF 403-520 coverage vs 403-470, & 450-520 on the Gen I HT’s. And while not a 7550e, those of us on 900 MHz despise the 7580e as Motorola deliberately locked out the 902/927 ham band, but the 7580 works great there, so the 7580’s are more desirable, & sell for more.
 

gman1971

Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2020
Messages
159
My sensitivity test for a radio may not be scientific, but it’s real world. I try to receive a repeater that’s 60 miles away. I’m standing in my driveway with my 7550, & 7550e. I hear the repeater on both radios. One step to the left, & the repeater on both radios is gone. One step back to the right, & I’m hearing the repeater on both radios again. No difference between the 2 radios no matter what the brochure says. The 6550 will not receive the same repeater from the same spot. But either way, since the repeater is 60 miles away, while the 7550 hears the repeater, & the 6550 doesn’t, none of the radios get into the repeater, so what good is the extra sensitivity? The big plus with the Gen 2 radios is the full UHF 403-520 coverage vs 403-470, & 450-520 on the Gen I HT’s. And while not a 7550e, those of us on 900 MHz despise the 7580e as Motorola deliberately locked out the 902/927 ham band, but the 7580 works great there, so the 7580’s are more desirable, & sell for more.

Stating it doesn't make a difference in your case doesn't change the fact that it might make a difference for someone else's case. As in, my case.

I totally understand where you're coming in terms of Motorola making deliberate nonsensical choices.... like the bolt antenna. Aside from that, for VHF/UHF the fact remains, a 4 dBm improvement translates to improved digital voice quality in fringe areas, vs no voice at all in some situations.

At 60 miles you should know its all about the repeater, not your portable. Measuring radio performance by "how well it can hear a repeater" its always doomed to succeed. A portable alone will never reach 60 miles while the user is walking at ground level, unless, of course, the person is walking atop of a tall mountain.... but most people don't perform their daily lives on a flat desert, or atop a mountain, most of us live in suburban/urban terrain with hills, and in places where if there is no infrastructure, you're limited by what your radio (and the other radios) can do, so every dBm you can muster counts.

Question: Have you measured the RSSI on both radios when these radio unmute? Please, do so. I am curious to see what kind of RSSI you are getting from both radios.

Well, ISOTEE tests are easy to do, and produce fairly accurate results; those tests are performed by repeater installations to evaluate how well they are working, and you can do the same for your radios. It explains a lot of the results you're seeing quite well, too.

As for the 6550 not receiving, that is normal, but that is b/c the XPR7550e has a measurable 10 dBm average advantage under most conditions, in VHF, based on dozens of RSSI readings obtained during every test we performed. You can verify this yourself, too, by putting all your XPR radios in RSSI mode (push left left left, then right right right) . (or up up up, down down down, on the SL7550) You enter RSSI mode, which tells you the signal strength as measured by the radio at whatever channel you have selected, radio works normally, you just get an RSSI screen. The 6550 also has a very tight squelch alignment too, so it won't be as good as the 7550 for weaker signal work.

To conclude: The 7550 non E is not a bad radio, never said that. I simply stated that after evaluating both, and given the fact that these cost about the same as the E model, used, I went with the E model.

IMO whoever is going for a used XPR7550 radio just should go for the E model, you never know when you might need those extra 4dBm.

G.
 

kayn1n32008

ØÆSØ
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
6,638
Location
Sector 001
Why not just buy the TRBO adapter from K6ASF. It works perfectly.


It doesn't 'work perfectly'. There is a ton of leakage, because the bolt is part of the antenna, and radiates RF.

If you really want an SMA you could try doing what someone in another forum did, remove the bolt antenna socket from the PCB, replace the hirose connector with a U.fl connector and use a short female SMA-F to U.fl. mini coax bolted to the case. Its not easy, but certainly doable if you are skilled enough with the soldering iron, and courageous enough to crack open your 400 dollar radio and start replacing parts... I am certainly not... tho.

In the end whether Motorola screwed up or not with the "nonsensical" bolt doesn't matter.

The bolt was intentional on Motorola part. They have crippled the XPR7550 intentionally.

My XPR7550 was the second radio that was modified for a SMA-F. Mars on CommSupport was the one that brought it to reality. It works well. Unfortunately, I would have preferred a SMA-M, because there are better antenna options. That said, the nut to secure the connector to the case can't be sourced, so that mod is on hold for the foreseeable future.
 

gman1971

Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2020
Messages
159
I totally agree, the connector leaks a lot of RF due to being exposed without a coaxial sheath.

Whether the bolt "nonsense" was intentional or not, its irrelevant. The fact remains and there is nothing we can do about the lack of SMA on these radios. Stating that it was intentional, or trying to spite Motorola, make them look retarded, etc... or whatever else we can write here won't change the facts, and the facts are there are no readily available affordable SMA XPR7550. It is what it is. (In fact, that might actually make them LESS receptive to find a solution...)

And BTW, to be perfectly clear here: you're preaching to the choir....

So, in the end, if you want an XPR7550 with SMA, you only have these possible options previously mentioned, otherwise look elsewhere.

G.

It doesn't 'work perfectly'. There is a ton of leakage, because the bolt is part of the antenna, and radiates RF.



The bolt was intentional on Motorola part. They have crippled the XPR7550 intentionally.

My XPR7550 was the second radio that was modified for a SMA-F. Mars on CommSupport was the one that brought it to reality. It works well. Unfortunately, I would have preferred a SMA-M, because there are better antenna options. That said, the nut to secure the connector to the case can't be sourced, so that mod is on hold for the foreseeable future.
 

KK6ZNS

K1MES
Joined
Dec 28, 2020
Messages
50
Location
Brisbane, CA
DMR standard includes talker alias. Motorola chose not to include it in their products until the most recent firmware.
I just got a brand new xpr7550e, so if I get the latest firmware it will show a contact alias name when receiving?
 

KK6ZNS

K1MES
Joined
Dec 28, 2020
Messages
50
Location
Brisbane, CA
Well... I got one just to test the waters, that was 3 weeks ago..... and now I am on my 7th one: one for each member of the family. Currently in the process of ditching, errr... selling, or donating every other portable radio I owned prior. That is how good these things are. The XPR5550e mobile is also on another league....

While it has some "shortcomings", its single band, no talker alias, the antenna is not SMA, etc... none of those issues has been a problem for me. In fact, even with the stubby 3.75 inch antenna on UHF I am able to talk simplex crystal clear 2 miles out on just 1 watt, in suburban hilly terrain. None of my other radios has ever achieved that.

Radios should have range measured in tens of miles, not tenths of a mile and pack a lot of fancy features to make up for crap range... b/c how good are those fancy functions if the radios can't communicate when you need them the most?

If you need more info, hit me on PM.

PS. I don't work for Motorola.

PS.2. Avoid Anytone at all costs: those radios are utter garbage for anything critical, sans hitting local repeaters for a quick chat. They freeze up, repeatedly, and without warning, they are buggy as heck, features semi-work, plus receivers are far worse, as measured, than what the Gen2 MotoTRBO radios have (XPR7550e, XPR5550e SL7550e)... With Anytone you'll be an eternal beta-tester for features that will never work right. Audio quality sucks compared to the XPR7550e, I don't think I've heard any other digital radio that sounds as good as the XPR7550e with the right profile. Oh, why bash anytone? well, I am the unlucky owner of an AT-578 (collecting dust) x2 Alinco MD5 and I've owned x2 AT-878 (which sucked real bad so I returned them back to Amazon).. Trust me, don't make the same mistakes I made, mislead by post stating "good entry level dmr nonsense" don't waste your money on a piece of crap. Buy once, cry once, or "don't be the guy who has enough money to do things wrong many times, be the guy who has the money to do it right, once"

PS.3 Don't settle for the XPR7550 (non e). There is a significant RX performance improvement between the two radios.

G.
@gman1979 Your setup sounds like what I want to do: 3x repeaters for our homes, and a radio for each family member. I have a few questions, would you mind PM’ING me? I can’t seem to do it for some reason (I keep getting a ‘forbidden’ error when I click your profile). Thanks!
 

AK9R

Lead Wiki Manager and almost an Awesome Moderator
Super Moderator
Joined
Jul 18, 2004
Messages
9,369
Location
Central Indiana
I have a few questions, would you mind PM’ING me? I can’t seem to do it for some reason (I keep getting a ‘forbidden’ error when I click your profile).
 

gman1971

Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2020
Messages
159
Cool, 3 repeaters!! Any particular frequency? or modulation? GMRS? FM? DMR? Just remember that you'll need an LMR license to use them legally on DMR... since GMRS does not allow for DMR modulation.

So, as for firmware, there are two options: For those of us who are used to the old CPS 16 828, I wouldn't upgrade the radios above 2.09. Now, if you have a MOL subscription for the CPS, or you have the latest firmware on the radio, then you probably don't have much of a choice. Talker Alias was implemented but I don't recall exactly in which version they added it.

So, CPS 2.0 (or anything firmware above 2.09) seems to be strongly disfavored unless you don't have a choice.

G.
 

KK6ZNS

K1MES
Joined
Dec 28, 2020
Messages
50
Location
Brisbane, CA
Cool, 3 repeaters!! Any particular frequency? or modulation? GMRS? FM? DMR? Just remember that you'll need an LMR license to use them legally on DMR... since GMRS does not allow for DMR modulation.

So, as for firmware, there are two options: For those of us who are used to the old CPS 16 828, I wouldn't upgrade the radios above 2.09. Now, if you have a MOL subscription for the CPS, or you have the latest firmware on the radio, then you probably don't have much of a choice. Talker Alias was implemented but I don't recall exactly in which version they added it.

So, CPS 2.0 (or anything firmware above 2.09) seems to be strongly disfavored unless you don't have a choice.

G.
Since I can’t pm with you yet (new member on this forum), mind dropping me an email? Seegem@me.com thanks!
 

KK6ZNS

K1MES
Joined
Dec 28, 2020
Messages
50
Location
Brisbane, CA
Cool, 3 repeaters!! Any particular frequency? or modulation? GMRS? FM? DMR? Just remember that you'll need an LMR license to use them legally on DMR... since GMRS does not allow for DMR modulation.

So, as for firmware, there are two options: For those of us who are used to the old CPS 16 828, I wouldn't upgrade the radios above 2.09. Now, if you have a MOL subscription for the CPS, or you have the latest firmware on the radio, then you probably don't have much of a choice. Talker Alias was implemented but I don't recall exactly in which version they added it.

So, CPS 2.0 (or anything firmware above 2.09) seems to be strongly disfavored unless you don't have a choice.

G.
Btw, why not upgrade beyond 2.09 firmware? I’d assume future firmwares better for bug fixes & feature add ons. What do I loose by going up from 2.09? Thanks!
 

Floridarailfanning

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Sep 22, 2015
Messages
419
Location
East Tennessee
Btw, why not upgrade beyond 2.09 firmware? I’d assume future firmwares better for bug fixes & feature add ons. What do I loose by going up from 2.09? Thanks!
R02.09 is the latest firmware before Motorola switched to the CPS 2.0 environment which is very different from CPS 16 and actually cuts back on some functionality. Motorola wants customers to transition to using Radio Management but for Hams and users of small systems, there is no real benefit. BUT if you have a radio with R02.10 firmware or something newer you'll have to use the new CPS.

Now to address your first post here about building a 3 repeater network. It would be totally possible but I'm not sure how you could do it legally unless you did it on the Ham bands. GMRS (Part 95) does not allow for DMR operation. Commercial (Part 90) does support DMR and you could run encryption, however, you would need a justification for acquiring coordinated pairs, and simply wanting it so you can talk to your family is not acceptable. No coordinator would help you unless you could define a commercial need for the frequencies.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top