902-928 MHz Spectrum coveted

[p1879]

Those who wish a windfall from public domains, again:

NextNav’s Callous Land-Grab to Privatize 900 MHz

The 900 MHz band, a frequency range serving as a commons for all, is now at risk due to NextNav’s brazen attempt to privatize this shared resource. Left by the FCC for use by amateur radio operators, unlicensed consumer devices, and industrial, scientific, and medical equipment, this spectrum has...

www.eff.org

 

[mmckenna]

The author seems to be trying to stir up fear but doesn't really supply any details, nor seem to have much understanding of what is going on with the 900MHz band.

This slice of spectrum was already assigned for Location and Monitoring Service back in the last century.
Amateur radio operators have a secondary allocation. That means they don't own it, but get to use it as long as they don't interfere with the primary user (LMS service as well as others). Amateurs often forget this, as they do with the 70cm band and other spectrum they use, and assume it belongs to them.
ISM users are not afforded any protection from interference. That's not new, it's the way it's always been.

For some reason, the author seemed to skip over those facts. I guess they didn't fit in with the direction he was trying to lead readers.

The author then goes on to talk about PNT. He claims that taking the G out of GPS isn't useful. He also claims that we don't need a backup to GPS.
Again, he fails to mention that several other countries have already built out backups to GPS since GPS is easily jammed. Great Britain rebuilt their LORAN system to serve as a back up navigation source. Other countries have done similar things.

NextNav isn't "gobbling up" spectrum. They bought licenses from other companies that were sitting on them unused. At least this way the spectrum will be put to use rather than sitting wasted.

NextNav seems to also want to spin up an LTE service. Wether that is needed or not is up for discussion. Anterix is already doing that on 900MHz, building a 900MHz LTE service aimed at utilities and other specific business users. No doubt NextNav is trying to cash in on this and the machine to machine networks that many are looking for.

The FCC isn't always good at protecting spectrum and the general public. The FCC is always looking to make a buck off spectrum, but in this case, the frequencies are already licensed, from what I can see, so not really any change.
It's certainly up for discussion if another LTE service is needed. But we do absolutely need a backup to GPS. Too much relies on something that is easily jammed.


If anyone really feels strongly against this, and has some time to form a good argument against NextNav being granted this change, there's still 5 days left to file comments with the FCC. Simply follow the directions at the bottom end of this document:

https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DA-24-776A1.pdf

 

[BinaryMode]

As an aviation enthusiast, I concur that GPS needs a backup. Very serious because I personally think we rely on GPS too much. Even combines and everything else uses GPS or other GNSS out there.

Years ago after reading DARPA had created an INS (Inertial Navigation System) on a chip, I was hoping that technology would make its way into the consumer market, but I haven't heard much about it since. Though, an INS DOES need to recalculate every once in a while with a precision source like GPS. That's why a submarine nears the surface and releases a buoy antenna to fetch a GPS signal every now and then and do other things...

The Apollo missions and whatnot all used INS. You may remember from the Apollo 13 movie how one astronaut said they had or have had "gimbal lock".

Global Positioning System - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[p1879]

Good to hear some positive perspectives, as we seem awash with gloom these days on news, etc. In particular, the GB LORAN tidbit is interesting.

 

[mmckenna]

Good to hear some positive perspectives, as we seem awash with gloom these days on news, etc. In particular, the GB LORAN tidbit is interesting.

The UK eLORAN system fills that role. That spectrum isn't being used for much else. LORAN worked well for what it was. It was a hell of a system to maintain back in the day, but modern technology would make that easier.

There was some idea, many years ago, to use broadcast stations as a source. The position of the antennas were known. Use a timing pulse and you've got some basic positioning capability.

Recent history has shown us that GPS is way too easy to jam or spoof.

Lucky for me I'm from the generation that knows how to read (and fold!) paper maps and can find my way around just fine without my cell phone.

 

[rf_patriot200]

The UK eLORAN system fills that role. That spectrum isn't being used for much else. LORAN worked well for what it was. It was a hell of a system to maintain back in the day, but modern technology would make that easier.

There was some idea, many years ago, to use broadcast stations as a source. The position of the antennas were known. Use a timing pulse and you've got some basic positioning capability.

Recent history has shown us that GPS is way too easy to jam or spoof.

Lucky for me I'm from the generation that knows how to read (and fold!) paper maps and can find my way around just fine without my cell phone.

Give me a Army compass with waypoints and a Map, and I can find my way out of any jungle !

 

[BinaryMode]

Lucky for me I'm from the generation that knows how to read (and fold!) paper maps and can find my way around just fine without my cell phone.

It's funny because I tried Google mapping the nearest Rand McNally store and found none.

I'm X Generation so know how to read maps. Heck, back in JROTC I was taught how to read a topographic map and use UTM coordinates. Though, admittedly today, some two decades latter I forgot much of it. I need to watch some YouTube videos and learn it again. I have the right compass to do it, too. One of my compasses is a compass combination time keeping piece. It has a flip up dial thing used as a Sun dial. Looks like this: Brass Mary Rose Antique Sundial Compass Vintage Designer Gift Nautical Handmade | eBay

Funny story (or maybe not so funny). While at my brother's house warming party I was upstairs in the master bedroom checking it out with two other gentlemen. I pointed out that my Bro. would have a nice view of the rising Sun since the window was facing East. These two clowns actually didn't know it was East and proceeded to pull out their smartphones to confirm what I had said was true. At that point you turn in your "man card" as far as I'm concerned. LOL (I would never want to hunt with those people)...

 

[cubn]

Question: if the FCC sells the 900 MHz band to cellular providers, will that make our 900 ISM DLR/DTR radios not work or possibly be illegal to use?

 

[kv5e]

902-928 ISM band has too many users with no relocation prospects. It is heavily utilzed and unlikely to be preempted.

 

[mmckenna]

Question: if the FCC sells the 900 MHz band to cellular providers, will that make our 900 ISM DLR/DTR radios not work or possibly be illegal to use?

The 900MHz band is divided up into different services. ISM isn't 900MHz to 999MHz. There's already many licensed users within that spectrum and that doesn't cause issues for these radios.

Even if they did, there's a ton of 900MHz ISM products out there and that would need to be considered.
However, ISM is -not- protected from interference from licensed users. This isn't a new thing.

The good news is that the Frequency Hopping Spread Spectrum should reduce the possibility of interference to a very low level.

 

[mmckenna]

Question: if the FCC sells the 900 MHz band to cellular providers, will that make our 900 ISM DLR/DTR radios not work or possibly be illegal to use?

You piqued my interest and I went looking at the NTIA documents.

902-928 primary user is Federal. Looks like the military uses it for shipborne radar as well as other uses.
The Feds are not going to give that band up to cell carriers.

ISM is secondary to the Federal users, and not offered any protection from the primary user.

Amateur radio is secondary also and are permitted to use the band on as long as they don't interfere with the Fed users. Hams are not offered any protection from ISM users.

Your ISM 900MHz gear is safe. The military/feds are not going to give that up slice of spectrum, and ISM can continue using it as long as they are good neighbors.