Best Portable/Mobile ecosystem: NX-5000 line vs Motorola R7 + XPR5000e

[lucasec]

Why do you think you need the SD card option? I'm not running it on any of our radios. I don't need to record audio at the radio and I don't need to track GPS location.

Yeah, I could probably pass on this one.

I would imagine it being useful in a multi-deck setup to re-play something you couldn't quite make out when two decks were receiving simultaneously, but if I understand right, I can get about 30sec-1min out of the deck's built-in memory which is almost always certainly enough.

 

[AM909]

@lucasec I sent you a PM.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Icom (even repeaters), too.

True, I guess. It definitely isn't a brand I would ever consider for P25.

Everything I have read about the Icom P25 offerings says that conventional is about the only place to use it.

Lots of firmware issues they are not fixing in the trunking realm.

 

[AK9R]

The Kenwood power supply is just a rebadged (can't remember the brand).

Samlex?

100-240V 23 Amp Switching Power Supply | SEC-1223P | Samlex America

23A Desktop Switching AC-DC Power Supply with universal AC input 100-240V 50/60Hz. Quiet, power factor corrected & safety certified for global use.

samlexamerica.com

 

[emacs]

KPS-15 is a rebadged SEC-1223 with two minor differences (besides the branding) - the KPS-15 has slotted set screws on the DC terminals, the SEC-1223 has hex; and the SEC-1223 comes with crimp-on ferrules for your DC cable while the KPS-15 doesn’t.

 

[lucasec]

If all you are going to transmit on is 70cm, then get an NMO mount UHF antenna that gives you the gain you want. Stick with the name brand (Larsen, EM Wave, Laird) brands. Don't buy an expensive radio like this and connect it to some Chinese POS hammy grade antenna.

If you really plan on using this to listen to a lot of traffic across the useable band that this radio gives you, then my favorite has always been a basic 1/4 wave whip. Plenty of bandwidth to cover the capability of the radio.

Out of curiosity, if you do a multi-deck UHF and VHF, would you install two antennas on the vehicle or ever consider a diplexer setup sharing a single antenna capable of some performance on both bands?

A trade-off of less performance vs. less holes in the roof/intrusions to other parts of the body for antenna mounts, I suppose.

 

[tweiss3]

Out of curiosity, if you do a multi-deck UHF and VHF, would you install two antennas on the vehicle or ever consider a diplexer setup sharing a single antenna capable of some performance on both bands?

A trade-off of less performance vs. less holes in the roof/intrusions to other parts of the body for antenna mounts, I suppose.

I have a diplexer on my truck, it was not one of the name brands, but one built in Greece, it has the best isolation with least loss. My wife's car has 2 antennas, her UHF is better because it is a half wave UHF vs a 3/4 UHF with a weird pattern.

 

[mmckenna]

Out of curiosity, if you do a multi-deck UHF and VHF, would you install two antennas on the vehicle or ever consider a diplexer setup sharing a single antenna capable of some performance on both bands?

Would depend on the vehicle, at least for me.

If I had space for two properly installed NMO mounts, I'd do two separate mounts. That gives you the most flexibility to choose the correct antenna for each band and the specific application. Yes, you can do a single multi-band antenna through a diplexer, but that usually gives you a lower gain VHF antenna and a higher gain UHF antenna. The UHF antenna would get its gain by a compressed radiation pattern that may not be ideal for your specific application. Having two separate mounts lets you choose the right antenna for the job.
Plus, I like my 1/4 wave antennas.

If I only had space for one antenna, then I'd use a good diplexer and a multiband antenna. I've been running Harris XL-200 mobile radios on my work truck for about 2 years now, and I've been happy with the multiband antennas from Larsen and EM Wave. The truck is a regular cab F350, and it already has a separate 800MHz radio plus a blade antenna for the WiFi/LTE/GPS on the Harris, so a multiple antennas (radio would need 3 for the LMR side) was not an option. Plus, the Harris uses a single RF connector for the LMR side of the radio. Adding a diplexer was an option, but really only room for one antenna on that specific truck.

A trade-off of less performance vs. less holes in the roof/intrusions to other parts of the body for antenna mounts, I suppose.

I have no problems drilling holes, been doing it for a few decades. Never once had an NMO mount leak. Ever. If I have the space and the need, I'll install as many as required.

 

[AF1UD]

Out of curiosity, if you do a multi-deck UHF and VHF, would you install two antennas on the vehicle or ever consider a diplexer setup sharing a single antenna capable of some performance on both bands?

A trade-off of less performance vs. less holes in the roof/intrusions to other parts of the body for antenna mounts, I suppose.

I didn't want the long VHF 19inch on the roof of my car. I opted for the STI-CO shark fins and a V/U duplexer. Haven't had any problems!

 

[lucasec]

I have no problems drilling holes, been doing it for a few decades. Never once had an NMO mount leak. Ever. If I have the space and the need, I'll install as many as required.

How important is the spacing between antennas? I have to contend with a decent portion of the roof already taken up by moonroof + a SiriusXM sharkfin (a feature I do use).

I didn't want the long VHF 19inch on the roof of my car. I opted for the STI-CO shark fins and a V/U duplexer. Haven't had any problems!

Interesting suggestion. These do look nice, I see a few other threads about them, going to review to see if anyone has quantified the compromises vs using a 1/4th wave.

Also is it a standard feature of most antennas for the vertical part to unscrew for when I need to go through a car wash, low-clearance parking garage, etc.?

 

[mmckenna]

How important is the spacing between antennas? I have to contend with a decent portion of the roof already taken up by moonroof + a SiriusXM sharkfin (a feature I do use).

Spacing is important. Not only spacing between the VHF/UHF antennas, but also spacing form the satellite radio antenna.

How much spacing depends on the power involved. I'd put about 2 feet between your VHF/UHF antennas if installing separate ones. I'd put it a foot or two from the Satellite antenna. And remember, you really want to provide suitable ground plane, so measuring this all out carefully is important.

My wife has a 50 watt VHF in her truck. That antenna is spaced about 16 inches from the satellite radio antenna. Haven't had any issues with that.

Moonroof? You may want to do the diplexer/dual band antenna thing. That may simplify all this.

Interesting suggestion. These do look nice, I see a few other threads about them, going to review to see if anyone has quantified the compromises vs using a 1/4th wave.

You'd want the shark fin type antenna with the whip. The whip is going to be about 19" long. The no whip type VHF Antennas are usually poor performers and narrow bandwidth. Not what you want if you are going to be doing 2 meter band (4MHz) plus have good performance in the rest of the VHF band.

Also is it a standard feature of most antennas for the vertical part to unscrew for when I need to go through a car wash, low-clearance parking garage, etc.?

Yes. They'll unscrew off the NMO mount. You can install an "NMO Rain Cap" in it's place while in the car wash.

Some antennas, like the Larsen NMOQ type or the EM Wave antennas can just have the whips unscrewed and leave the base in place.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Out of curiosity, if you do a multi-deck UHF and VHF, would you install two antennas on the vehicle or ever consider a diplexer setup sharing a single antenna capable of some performance on both bands?

If I was installing a dual RF deck NX-5xxx mobile, I would drill for 2 antennas, but thats me. Less connectors, less loss without a diplexer. I'd also use a 1/4 wave for VHF and a 1/4 wave for UHF. If I used a single antenna, it would be a Larsen NMO 2/70B. None of the garbage hammy brands like Browning, Tram, MFJ, Comet, Diamond or Abbree branded antennas for me. Buy quality antennas like EMWave, Larsen or Laird. Currently, for single band antennas, I would pay the premium and buy EMWave.

 

[wd8chl]

The general theory is to mount antennas roughly a 1/4-wave apart at the lowest freq. band. In general, you want about a 1/4-wave of flat metal around each antenna as a ground plane. Plus being that far out helps to keep the pattern from being distorted, and lessens the RF coupling between antennas/radios when transmitting.

 

[lucasec]

The general theory is to mount antennas roughly a 1/4-wave apart at the lowest freq. band. In general, you want about a 1/4-wave of flat metal around each antenna as a ground plane. Plus being that far out helps to keep the pattern from being distorted, and lessens the RF coupling between antennas/radios when transmitting.

Pretty clearly my limiter is going to be available roof space.

Roof is about 38" wide from side rail to side rail, but length measured from the back edge of the moonroof to the joint with the hatch assembly gives me only 33". Further, when the moonroof operates, it retracts about 13 1/2" into the headliner, so unless the underside of the NMO mount is incredibly low profile, it's likely to interact if it comes within that distance of the opening.

So realistically since I'm starting with only a UHF unit, I could drill for a UHF 1/4 wave as close to the center as I can get (still closer than ideal to the sat radio fin). When I add the VHF, swap it for the NMO 2/70B and hope the drill diameters are the same. Or would I be better off instead installing a dedicated 2m 1/2 wave on the hatch?

 

[mmckenna]

Pretty clearly my limiter is going to be available roof space.

Roof is about 38" wide from side rail to side rail, but length measured from the back edge of the moonroof to the joint with the hatch assembly gives me only 33". Further, when the moonroof operates, it retracts about 13 1/2" into the headliner, so unless the underside of the NMO mount is incredibly low profile, it's likely to interact if it comes within that distance of the opening.

A standard NMO mount, like a Larsen NMOK, will have about 3/8" sticking down below the roof skin.

But, this is absolutely the place where you want to measure this 10 times before pulling the trigger on the drill. If it was me, I'd use my little endoscopic camera to see what is under there to be sure there would be no interference. And then making sure the coax is routed in such a way that it would never catch on any of the running parts under there.

I'd tread carefully in this case, and I've been doing this for decades. I've only done a few installs on SUV's/trucks with moon roofs, and I always make sure I put the mount behind where the roof travel space is.

So realistically since I'm starting with only a UHF unit, I could drill for a UHF 1/4 wave as close to the center as I can get (still closer than ideal to the sat radio fin). When I add the VHF, swap it for the NMO 2/70B and hope the drill diameters are the same. Or would I be better off instead installing a dedicated 2m 1/2 wave on the hatch?

Ideal situation is to have a perfect 1/4 wavelength of ground plane under the antenna base in all directions. But you've got some limitations. Sometimes you have to make do with what you have.
No, it won't be perfect, but it'll work. Radiation pattern may not be a perfect circle, but you'll probably never hear the difference. I wouldn't get hung up on it.

Other option is to go on the trunk. Again, not "perfect", but it's going to work way better than a lot of the half azzed installs you'll see in the hobby realm. Just getting a good antenna properly mounted puts you way out in front of the crowd.

As for the NMO mounts, 3/4" is the standard size. There are some 3/8" mounts, but you don't want those. If you install a 3/4" NMO mount, you'l be good. The nice thing is they are universal, so the 1/4 wave antenna will work just fine, so will the NMO-2/70. Won't matter.

 

[AM909]

So for a single mount you could drill ~14.5" back from the moon roof rear edge and you get full VHF quarter-waves to either side and rear and much of one to the front, with the fin disturbing things a little at VHF at ~8" back.

For two mounts, drill ~10" either side of that point.

Make sure you know where the fin cable is before drilling, too.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Pretty clearly my limiter is going to be available roof space.

Roof is about 38" wide from side rail to side rail, but length measured from the back edge of the moonroof to the joint with the hatch assembly gives me only 33". Further, when the moonroof operates, it retracts about 13 1/2" into the headliner, so unless the underside of the NMO mount is incredibly low profile, it's likely to interact if it comes within that distance of the opening.

You're over thinking it. It's not going to be a 'perfect' groundplane. The moonroof compromises it. Drop the head liner a d put something on the roof to show you where the back side of moon roof sits when it's fully opened. Measure for the centre of the roof for a single mount, for dual NMO mounts divide it into thirds and mark between the first and second third, and between the second and third, third. Drill your holes.

KISS principle.

Trying to measure out for the centre of the tin behind the moonroof amd trying to route the coax so it doesn't interfere with the moonroof and its mechanism is going to be a pain in the ass. It's not going to gain you any noticeable performance.

Unless you can be 110% confident the underside of the mount AND coax won't interfere, rub or otherwise interfere with the roof opening and closing, keep them out of the travel path.

Yes the pattern will be skewed by the lack of uniformity of the groundplane, BUT you won't notice unless you are receiving really weak signals, and at that point its not going to be enjoyable to listen to and try and pick voices out of the static.

Even with the skewed pattern this way, it's going to perform a hell of a lot better than using a fender L-bracket, using a hammy gutter mount or a hammy lip mount.

I ran a 25w XPR5550 VHF, with a EMWave wideband 1/4(compromise antenna that gave acceptable SWR across most of the VHF spectrum) on my Jetta that had a moon roof for years. It was mounted in the hole thay would have been for the Sirrius/XM/GPS antenna if my car had the factory nav unit rather than the low end stereo. I had like 8 or 10" from the antenna to the rear of the roof. I didn't notice any nulls or skewed pattern. If I ever have a car with moon roof again, it will be a similar location. Behind the open moonroof offset towards the back so it won't interfere with the operation of the moonroof. If it's a VHF radio, it will be the same EMWave wideband 1/4, if it's a UHF radio, it will be an EMWave 1/4. If it's dual band, it will be a Larsen NMO-2/70B.

The only other suggestions I could make, are to program a button to change power levels. If I was using a 45w NX5xxx, I would program all my channels for medium power ~25w. I rarely felt I needed more than 25w, even traveling in the mountains. Not sure if I was just lucky, but I found 25w was balanced in almost all cases, if I could hear the repeater I could work it.

I used a NX700(similar chassis size) for years at an old job. At high power it WILL get hot in short order if your in a long conversation and regularly hitting the time out timer.

Speaking of which, enable the time out timer. 120 seconds is 2 minutes. No more than 180 seconds. No need to be super long winded. It will force you to turn it over, and if for some reason you stuff the mic in a seat or cup holder, it WILL save your finals.

Good luck on your project. I can't wait to see the final results. I'm glad you are not afraid of drilled NMO mounts.

Magnet/gutter and lip mounts are ugly and scream lazy. Drilling won't decrease value, and done properly absolutely won't leak, IF you install the mount AND the antenna gaskets properly.

 

[lucasec]

Thanks everyone. I've now gone from being serious about drilling zero holes to two holes . The basic principles make sense though. Starting with only UHF it should matter a lot less if I place it off-center left-to-right to allow for a future second drill for VHF.

Last antenna-related questions (I hope): Looking at the EMWave ones, most of them are tunable and come with a chart for what length to cut for specific frequencies. Let's say on UHF I intend to transmit on 420-450 MHz, but still want decent performance (at least for RX) on 462/467 MHz. What freq would you cut to?

For EMWave do you like the spring models or the springless ones (something like EM-M10003-LS)?

 

[mmckenna]

Last antenna-related questions (I hope): Looking at the EMWave ones, most of them are tunable and come with a chart for what length to cut for specific frequencies. Let's say on UHF I intend to transmit on 420-450 MHz, but still want decent performance (at least for RX) on 462/467 MHz. What freq would you cut to?

I'd probably cut mine for 445MHz. As a ham, that's where you'll spend most of your time.

How well it works on GMRS will depend on which antenna you have. If it's a 1/4 wave, it'll probably work just fine up there. 1/4 waves have a lot of useable bandwidth on UHF. If you went with a higher gain antenna, you'll see that useable bandwidth shrink. It'll still receive, but maybe not as well as it could.

One of the reasons I like my 1/4 wave antennas…..

For EMWave do you like the spring models or the springless ones (something like EM-M10003-LS)?

So, about 15" tall. On your vehicle would you expect a 15" tall antenna to hit anything frequently? If so, you may want the spring.
It makes the antenna fatter at the base, which makes it stand out more. But it often gives them some more useable bandwidth, also.

I think I have a spring and non-spring VHF 1/4 wave EM Wave antenna, one on my wife's truck, one on my truck. I think her's has the spring, and she goes in and out of the garage every day, haven't had any issues.
The non-spring version on mine has a pretty thin whip, and I wouldn't be concerned about it getting hit.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Thanks everyone. I've now gone from being serious about drilling zero holes to two holes .

Awesome.

The basic principles make sense though. Starting with only UHF it should matter a lot less if I place it off-center left-to-right to allow for a future second drill for VHF.

Nope, it won't matter which side it's on.

Last antenna-related questions (I hope): Looking at the EMWave ones, most of them are tunable and come with a chart for what length to cut for specific frequencies. Let's say on UHF I intend to transmit on 420-450 MHz, but still want decent performance (at least for RX) on 462/467 MHz. What freq would you cut to?

I'd cut it to 444MHz.

For EMWave do you like the spring models or the springless ones (something like EM-M10003-LS)?

My VHf 1/4 has an elastomer 'Spring', but for a UHF I wouldn't bother with a spring.