ARES Wackers!

[peterjmag]

TULSA COUNTY AMATEUR RADIO EMERGENCY SERVICES IS ACTIVATED IN SUPPORT OF THE RED CROSS DISASTER SERVICES IN NORTHEASTERN OKLAHOMA, TULSA DISTRICT.

WE WILL NEED EIGHT OPERATORS DAILY TO PROVIDE COMMUNICATION SUPPORT FOR THE RED CROSS SURVEY TEAMS.

TO VOLUNTEER TO HELP CALL LARRY KC5KLM @ 694-8887 OR BEGINNING FRIDAY CONTACT ARES INTAKE NET CONTROL ON THE 146.880 REPEATER 88.5 PL REQUIRED.

TULSA COUNTY ARES IS ACTIVATED


Would someone please explain to me why the ARES wackers need to get invloved in flooding survey teams? Last time I checked the Red Cross had 2 way radios? Here in Tulsa they have 800 radios which include portables. Seems more like the WACKERS would be getting in the way rather then helping? Looks more like a circus of Amber lights and wackerism is about to enter Bartlesville. God help us and go help them.
As many of you know I am an amateur radio operator and love the hobby. The problem is that some of you have forgotten what the word amateur and hobby means? I know they mean well and want to help but I'm sorry a few hours of video tapes and lectures does not mean they can go "play" on their HTs and act like a "police man" . For the love of god let the Public Safety workers including Red Cross do their jobs without the ARES ego inflated wackers getting in the way!

P.J.

 

[Secret_Squirrel]

I can understand where you are coming from.

I too have to question why Red Cross would need ARES folks to provide communications services when the Tulsa chapter of the Red Cross has VHF and STATE 800mhz capabilities at their disposal.

If I ddn't know better, I'd highly suspect ARES "communication support services" were basically "sold", almost to the point of being pushed down the throats of the Red Cross by some "salesmen".

It would make more sense for the Red Cross to provide their own communications. In about 30 minutes a short class could be presented to Red Cross volunteers on how to operate a 2-way radio.

 

[FireMedic712]

I can understand where you are coming from.

I too have to question why Red Cross would need ARES folks to provide communications services when they Tulsa chapter of the Red Cross has VHF and STATE 800mhz capabilities at their disposal.

If I ddn't know better, I'd highly suspect ARES "communication support services" were basically "sold", almost to the point of being pushed down the throats of the Red Cross by some "salesmen".

It would make more sense for the Red Cross to provide their own communications. In about 30 minutes a short class could be presented to Red Cross volunteers on how to operate a 2-way radio.

Have you seen the Mobile Radio tower on the trailer at UDN. I think that's what shoud be utilized for this incident. Tulsas radio techs should man the thing, much smoother operation and people that understand emergency situations. This is by no way bashing Hams or ARES, but the tower is intended for disaster mitigation and radio expertise. Not only can the State TRS be used/patched, but it has just about every kind of patch known to man including EDACS, Smartnet, Cellular, VHF, UHF, and Digi capabilitites are in its arsenal. When the fire department I previously worked for switched to Regional dispatch we got a tour of what it can do and where it can go. Just my .02.

 

[ImTheWeasel]

Beleive me... The whackerism has already started. Now, don't get me wrong; myself and another member here on the forums started the "Bartlesville Severe Weather Storm Team". However, we DO NOT involve ourselves with matters such as these. Anything that we do involve ourselves with, comes first at the OK of our local EOC. There are several amateur radio operators in our town who also volunteer and help out during certain events.

Just in the past two days, i've seen numerous cars (no-police crown vics, impalas, etc) running around town sporting amber lightbars, amber direction bars, strobes, etc and miniature antenna farms on the roofs, all stopping then proceeding to going around barricades. Some of these vehicles have Kansas, Texas, and Missouri plates. We were informed during the flooding that anyone caught going around a barricade was subject to a $277 fine + Court Fees for going through a barricade. This was relayed to us from a local member of our EOC. None the less, i still see these guys doing this, as well as a couple who have used there lights to "move" traffic out of their way, or avoid a stopsign or stoplight. Our local PD is aware of this, but it seems they have yet to visually catch any of them in the act.

One thing that they have been doing also, is they seem to not comprehend that when driving down the road, when they see a street that is flooded, such as those down Hensley/Tuxedo. That they should not suddenly apply their brakes and come to a stop in the middle of the street, flip on their little round amber light and take a picture... A friend of mine almost rear-ended one of the guys because of this, and he did contact PD and give the vehicles tag # to them. Unfortunately, they never caught the guy doing it, but did state that my friend wasnt the first call they had received that day in regards to that vehicle.

Also, I overheard on W5NS (146.655) yesterday, some gentlemen talking about using the repeater today for communications regarding flood damage, etc. I'm not sure if they were with an ARES group or anything like that.

 

[car2back]

maybe KC5KLM will chime in tomorrow

 

[ImTheWeasel]

Yea, i beleive it was KC5KLM and KC5OKT that were talking yesterday.

I know one thing though... the soccer fields at Robinwood Park look HORRIBLE!. Scum from the floodwaters literally turned the entire fields into a brown cesspool. LOL

 

[KD5WLX]

Red Cross has radios, but (reportedly) no operators.

The hams are NOT doing the damage assessments, but rather are relaying comms for the damage assessment team members that can't use the RC radios.

Supposedly, they are riding "shotgun" in RC vehicles, using HTs and external (mag mount) antennas - at least that is what was requested. But I also heard several talking about getting their personal vehicles "muddy", so I suspect plans changed compared to the announcement????

Regarding the "wackers" - I'm one of the most active hams in the Tulsa area - and I have 1 antenna and 0 extra lights on my vehicle. When I was a volunteer firefighter, that kind of thing got you kicked off the dept. I understand why and agree, but I don't have the authority to tell a fellow ham to scrap the lights or the porcupine.

And while I'm concerned about the image the extra lights and antennas project, I'm more concerned about the hams that "volunteer" for every special event or ARES activation, and then (based on their on air behavior) have no clue what they're doing and no business being out there - that's not all of us - some of us take the training and practice seriously and are are as good (or better) than the "pros" - then again, some of us (S.S.) ARE the pros. It only takes ONE poor op, mic hog, or "marble mouth", or one whacker driving around barricades, or one loud mouth in front of the TV newscam to make us all look bad, though!

Oh, and PJ - it's NOT a hobby unless you choose to make it one. It's the "Amateur Radio Service", and the federal reg that gives us our freqs and our privileges also gives us certain rights and responsibilities. No ham is required to do public service, but it IS part of the law that authorizes that license you hold. There are many hams that use their radio as a hobby - chasing paper (worked all states, counties, VUCC, etc.) and never do anything else. That's fine, but that is only one piece of ham radio. There are also hams that are strictly "advancing the engineering of the radio art" through designing and experimenting, etc. even though they are rarely on the air. And one section says we are also to provide a corps of reserve radio operators, trained and experienced, to serve in times of communication emergencies. I doubt that THIS disaster is really a communications emergency, but not being an ARES nor an EOC officer, that's not my call. Nevertheless, it is part of our charter, for those of us that choose to involve ourselves in that part of the ARS.

Now, if we could just get the people who CAN to be the ones who DO, instead of (mostly) getting all the ones who CAN'T, maybe we wouldn't look like the Keystone Kops out there.

BTW, I'm not out there today for 3 reasons. 1. I don't think this is a comm emergency, and don't know why we were activated or why we're needed. 2. I refuse to work for the RC until they learn how to NOT jerk their volunteers around and piss them off - but that's personal and 3. My garage door broke and I have to get it fixed!

 

[car2back]

Red Cross has radios, but (reportedly) no operators.

What kind of radios are we talking about? No offense, but it sounds just as useless as having someone riding shotgun with a cop just to talk on the radio for them

 

[KD5WLX]

I believe someone already stated - RC has VHF and access to the state DPS 800MHz system. I do not know if they have mobiles in their vehicles capable of using them if they do. I have seen (back before I "unvolunteered" with RC) their comm center in Tulsa, and it has DPS 800 radios plus a couple that they told me were "business band" on their own freqs (probably the VHF stuff) in addition to a couple of ham dual-banders and a nice commercial HF station.

If their vehicles are equipped with mobiles, then I see no reason for the hams to be out there.

If they aren't, then their vehicles shouldn't be out there, and they should be buying the hams gas and doing the riding "shotgun" - I know from experience that there are a lot of places where an HT won't cut it, even with an external antenna, but a mobile with a permanent antenna will.

In any case, it's a waste of manpower - either train the damage assessment people to use the radios, then equip their vehicles with appropriate radios, or train the hams to do the damage assessment and let them use their own cars. But have a "washout" point in the training so you can screen out the whackers and the incompetents, or your damage assessment is just a bunch of "war stories".

 

[xerb1962]

What do you mean by a "washout" point?

 

[mam1081]

They were still operating on 146.88 this afternoon while I was in Tulsa-town (and "broadcasting" their need for help like every 5 minutes. It sounded like they were working in an area around Miami - couldn't even use the Tulsa area repeater from up there, so they were on some other one or on simplex. Interesting.

 

[KD5WLX]

Washout Point: too many "training" evolutions in this modern age don't have a test or a practical (or both) that can be failed! People go to a training, everybody passes, and everybody gets a "certification" that they are "qualified" for whatever the training covered. But we all know that not everyone is (mature, observant, disciplined, intellegent, physically capable, pick your adjective here) to actually do the job they are now certified to perform.

When everyone passes the Red Cross CPR course, that either means that the instructor is really good, or that some people now have a CPR Cert card in their wallet that I don't want performing CPR on ME! I went through that course, and I know that I would have flunked at least 3 (out of 12) people if I was teaching it. It is NOT a mark of a good instructor to pass everyone. The proper mark of a good instructor is when they only pass those who truly know what is being taught at the end of the course. Sadly, in today's society, there are too many who feel we shouldn't "hurt their feelings" by telling them they "aren't good enough".

Even worse is things like Skywarn. The NWS puts on a great training session, but 1/2 the people there don't pay attention/talk to their friends/play games, etc. but all get the cert at the end - just for "showing up", and then 1/2 the "spotters" on the air during an actual event didn't even go to the session! And there's a lot more to spotting that the NWS's points (what to look for, what to report, how to stay safe) - there's also actually being able to get your message through - what repeater to be on, how to use the mic, not getting excited and screaming or talking too fast, etc. In other words, you need to be good at tactical comms and in control of your own emotions over and above the "weather" side of it.

Then there's the people who should be told "sorry, but we just don't need you" (politely, of course) - like the people with unsafe and uninsured cars (I know a ham who drives a car with the "brake lights" wired to a toggle switch on the dash!) or who present the worst possible image (always dirty, smelly, and wearing clothes that look like they slept in them all of last week, including having "wet" themselves at least once - and yes, I've seen that, too).

In other words - instead of ARES having a "show up and get an ID", or the ARRL "take these 3 "can't be failed federal classes on ICS" (that tell you nothing about how to use ICS, just what it is), instead, have a rigorous (but meaningful) training program that requires you to prove that you (1) know how to program your radio in the field, (2) know how to make yourself understood over the air (voice/mic techniques, etc) (3) know tactical comm procedures (brevity, clarity, repeat-back, etc) (4) have some basic knowledge in what the job is (weather spotting, damage assessment, etc (not everyone is going to be good at all areas, but if you can't tell a roof from a slab, you can't "report" damage without garbling it, even if someone else is feeding you the words).

Unfortunately, even the ARRL certification requirements were blown off as "too hard" - it was felt that it would scare away "good volunteers". A rigorous training program would only be worse from that regard, but if you want a "professional" looking organization, providing quality help, (what ARES management pitches to the served agencies) then that's what you have to REQUIRE before you let people carry the card and/or go out on the job.

That's what S.S. was alluding to - the local ARES honchos are all salesmen (really - one of them is a full time commission salesman at an appliance store) so they've "sold" the agencies on how "professional" ARES is. And some of ARES (some members) really are that good and that experienced - like about 10 of them. Unfortunately, 6 of the 10 are so disgusted with where ARES has goon they've written it off (and no longer participate) and 3 more are quietly working from "within" to try and clean it up (with little success). But that leaves you with 1 qualified responder on an activation, and the rest are whackers, generally speaking.

BTW, the "intake net" on 146.88 was to get volunteers from the Tulsa area to GO to Ottawa Cty, since there aren't enough people up there to do it with locals (always the case - the locals have their own families/property to worry about). The actual operations were on a repeater in that area (Bartlesville on Friday, I'm not sure which on Saturday - probably Vinita).

 

[N5TWB]

Standing Ovation for Jay!!!

Ditto...Amen...Preach it, brother! Copy and send your last post to any and all that can make a difference in EMCOM service from hams. I am convinced that more would come out to help if they knew they would be taken seriously by those agencies/communities being served because the agency/community could see they were getting the best rather than the dregs who attended some "certification course".

Deserves posting to eHam and QRZ for wider dissemination and discussion...

 

[xerb1962]

Ditto X 2....ain't nothing else to say other than...Deserves posting to eHam and QRZ for wider dissemination and discussion...

 

[peterjmag]

What kind of radios are we talking about? No offense, but it sounds just as useless as having someone riding shotgun with a cop just to talk on the radio for them

This might help you Phil...

http://radioreference.com/modules.php?name=RR&aid=1711

 

[car2back]

This might help you Phil...

http://radioreference.com/modules.php?name=RR&aid=1711

So we're not talking about anything overly complicated; you push a button and talk in to the mic

 

[OpSec]

Ditto...Amen...Preach it, brother! Copy and send your last post to any and all that can make a difference in EMCOM service from hams. I am convinced that more would come out to help if they knew they would be taken seriously by those agencies/communities being served because the agency/community could see they were getting the best rather than the dregs who attended some "certification course".

Deserves posting to eHam and QRZ for wider dissemination and discussion...

Agreed. Great post. I wish more ARES whackers could see your post.

 

[BCFD25]

They need Brig. Gen Brassard Super Extra Senior Deluxe Executive REACT COMMANDer. He could take care of everything. Check out this forum on another "radio" site.

http://radiointellect.freeforums.org/viewtopic.php?t=15

At first i thought who is this guy but im pretty sure hes jokin around. Surely no one is that stupid. My favorite line is from his first post "When we roll up on a scene we want to let everyone know whos in charge."

By the way can i be refered to as Super duper extra senior deluxe executive commander of nothin too?

 

[Medic32]

since no one else will....

 

[Medic32]

They need Brig. Gen Brassard Super Extra Senior Deluxe Executive REACT COMMANDer. He could take care of everything. Check out this forum on another "radio" site.

http://radiointellect.freeforums.org/viewtopic.php?t=15

At first i thought who is this guy but im pretty sure hes jokin around. Surely no one is that stupid. My favorite line is from his first post "When we roll up on a scene we want to let everyone know whos in charge."

By the way can i be refered to as Super duper extra senior deluxe executive commander of nothin too?

My favorite quotes include;

"I will answer to nothing other than Brig. General"

"We run this state. Run it like a rabbit"

and last but most defiantly not least.. "I had an argument with the fire chief on who is in control of the scene. I lost when he threatened to have me arrested"