ARES Wackers!
- Thread starter peterjmag
- Start date
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Activating Ham radios in a emergency is in the protocol according to the National Incident Management System (NIMS). FEMA's gone nationwide.
http://training.fema.gov/EMIWeb/IS/is700.asp
http://training.fema.gov/EMIWeb/IS/is700.asp
Were these guys (Red Cross) from the local office or were they national people that were flown in driving rental cars with no radios? 
From what I understand now after talking to someone that was onscene it was VERY professional. I was kind of seeing a picture of hams riding around talking back and forth on handy-talkies but in reality it sounds like a well coordinated effort to check the flood damage and "triage" the disaster area. There was no "whacking" that took place.
From what I understand now after talking to someone that was onscene it was VERY professional. I was kind of seeing a picture of hams riding around talking back and forth on handy-talkies but in reality it sounds like a well coordinated effort to check the flood damage and "triage" the disaster area. There was no "whacking" that took place.
Sounds as if someone doesn't like the TRO PresidentAD5PE said:
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n4voxgill
Silent Key
I don't anything about the situation in Oklahoma, but I have been involved with ARES in several places and currently serve as the emergency coordinator for ARES in my county. In all of the places I have experience, ARES does not self activate. We only respond when either the local government officials request our assistance or one of the national agencies that we have agreements with request our assistance.
I also know that the Red Cross in many places try to get ARES personnel to take Red Cross courses in shelter operations and even disaster survey.
The ARRL has three levels of disaster communications training. This is on-line home study courses and you must pay tuition to take each course. A grant was given to the ARRL to reimburse members who succesfully completed the courses. I think I paid about $40.00 for each course. Most ARES members have also taken NIMS courses through FEMA.
In local emergencies we will utilize our members first and then if additional help is needed start asking for licensed amateurs. When major events exceed local capabilities and ARES must request assistance from out of town amateurs I will not recoommend anyone that has not comopleted some of the national level training.
None of the members of my unit nor surrounding counties have any extra lights on their vehicles. I and the other members have few antennas on our vehicles.
I agree that whackers have no place in ARES. WE have worked hard to prove to the local officials that we are dependable, competent communicatiors. Any time the local EOC is opened, we are among the first notified. We have three positions in the EOC and receive good support from law enforcement and emergency management.
I also know that the Red Cross in many places try to get ARES personnel to take Red Cross courses in shelter operations and even disaster survey.
The ARRL has three levels of disaster communications training. This is on-line home study courses and you must pay tuition to take each course. A grant was given to the ARRL to reimburse members who succesfully completed the courses. I think I paid about $40.00 for each course. Most ARES members have also taken NIMS courses through FEMA.
In local emergencies we will utilize our members first and then if additional help is needed start asking for licensed amateurs. When major events exceed local capabilities and ARES must request assistance from out of town amateurs I will not recoommend anyone that has not comopleted some of the national level training.
None of the members of my unit nor surrounding counties have any extra lights on their vehicles. I and the other members have few antennas on our vehicles.
I agree that whackers have no place in ARES. WE have worked hard to prove to the local officials that we are dependable, competent communicatiors. Any time the local EOC is opened, we are among the first notified. We have three positions in the EOC and receive good support from law enforcement and emergency management.
kc5klm
Member
I was not going to reply but here I go anyway...........
I am a Tulsa ARES AEC and Red Cross RRT Team Leader and was IC on this incident. Ares was activated by a call from National Red Cross to me asking the Red Cross RRT for help. They called and wanted help and have been very appreciative of our assistance, post incident. They had assessment teams flown in from all over the country and put in rental cars with only cell phones. They wanted to be more efficient and better direct the teams in real time.
I could care less if anyone knew I helped. It is not about the "whacking"! It is about helping those people that lost EVERYTHING. The people in Miami and Bartlesville have NO HOME, VERY LITTLE CLOTHING, AND MOST HAVE LOST IRREPLACABLE FAMILY AIRLOOMS. THat is what it is about. I am a Police Officer and could care less about running around with lights on my car and a ham radio. It is about having compassion for those who are are at the bottom and need help.
Without Damage Assessment teams to survey and get the numbers and extent of damage to those homes in the area,then FEMA would not have declared it a National desaster area and funding would not be available. Those numbers attained by the teams went to FEMA and they in turn made the money available.
Sometimes I thing Freedom of speech is overrated when ignorance is shoved in our faces by those who have no clue. Dont just sit there *****ing at those that do, get up and do something about it. I was on the phone for three days recruiting and bet none from Tulsa in this discussion volunteered to help..........Yeah that means you, JAY.
It's real easy to armchair quarterback.
______________________________________________
Remember...............Amateurs built the Ark and Professionals built the Titanic.
I am a Tulsa ARES AEC and Red Cross RRT Team Leader and was IC on this incident. Ares was activated by a call from National Red Cross to me asking the Red Cross RRT for help. They called and wanted help and have been very appreciative of our assistance, post incident. They had assessment teams flown in from all over the country and put in rental cars with only cell phones. They wanted to be more efficient and better direct the teams in real time.
I could care less if anyone knew I helped. It is not about the "whacking"! It is about helping those people that lost EVERYTHING. The people in Miami and Bartlesville have NO HOME, VERY LITTLE CLOTHING, AND MOST HAVE LOST IRREPLACABLE FAMILY AIRLOOMS. THat is what it is about. I am a Police Officer and could care less about running around with lights on my car and a ham radio. It is about having compassion for those who are are at the bottom and need help.
Without Damage Assessment teams to survey and get the numbers and extent of damage to those homes in the area,then FEMA would not have declared it a National desaster area and funding would not be available. Those numbers attained by the teams went to FEMA and they in turn made the money available.
Sometimes I thing Freedom of speech is overrated when ignorance is shoved in our faces by those who have no clue. Dont just sit there *****ing at those that do, get up and do something about it. I was on the phone for three days recruiting and bet none from Tulsa in this discussion volunteered to help..........Yeah that means you, JAY.
It's real easy to armchair quarterback.
______________________________________________
Remember...............Amateurs built the Ark and Professionals built the Titanic.
n4voxgill
Silent Key
every time I think about changing my signature line, stupid threads like this come along where people that know nothing have so much to say.
steveaa5v
Member
Thanks Larry
After Reading this thread yesterday I thought it might be appropriate to post what really happens when the ARES team is called out.
Good Post Larry -
FROM BRIAN GNADD -
After a few things I have heard lately that lead me to believe that
there are some misconceptions floating around I thought I would take a
moment to address a few.
ARES in relation to the wider disaster response universe has a very
specific place in the incident command system. Pull out your IC
structure charts now, if you'd like, and follow along.
At a level under the IC (Incident commander), on the staff side, is a
"Logistics Unit". If you have one of the larger charts that breaks
things down further than this, you might see under the logistics unit
a "Communications Unit". Under the Commo Unit exists, but you won't
see it on the charts, a Ham Radio Unit.
Something you may notice about this is that us Commo Weenies are
listed as "Resources". There are ongoing efforts right now to develop
a precise NIMS "Resource Typing" for Ham Radio units. Just like they
have for generators, trucks, bulldozers, fire-fighting teams, bottled
water and toilet paper (an under-estimated strategic resource if there
ever was one).
When ARES is requested as a resource, by the local sheriff, the state
EOC, the Red Cross, or whomever, we belong to the Commo Unit director.
We are assigned by the Commo Unit Director to fill communications
roles as requested.
In some rare cases, a member of ARES may be the Commo Unit Director.
But that is still a staff position, not a command position.
Any ARES member who is filling a command role at any incident, is not
doing so as a member of ARES, but under whatever authority gave that
ARES member command. For example at least one County Director of
Emergency Management is a ARES member. But, when he is doing his job
as the DoEM, he is *NOT* doing it as an ARES member.
ARES does not "choose" its missions, other than deciding whether or
not we show up (that's the thing with volunteer organizations) . Beyond
that, we do what we are asked to do by our served agencies, to the
best of our ability.
What I am saying here is that ARES commands nothing in the disaster
response world excepting ourselves. Even that is limited; you will
notice that my title is District Emergency Coordinator, not District
Emergency Commander. My function, when you boil it down to the bare
essentials, is to come up with and feed enough commo equipment and
operators into the system to get the job done that we are asked to do.
There may be a little silver oak leaf hanging off my badge, but that
is there as a convenience for the folks in the served agencies who
don't know what a District Emergency Coordinator is, and don't want to
know and couldn't care less. All they want to know is, to whom they
need to speak to get something done, so when they walk into wherever
the ARES volunteers are waiting, they see these little rank tabs that
look very similar to the ones they use and they say "oh, I want that guy!"
Any ARES member who tries to take command of a situation or who argues
with a member of a served agency (except over a safety issue, if you
are asked to do something you believe is unsafe, sound off quick!) is
automatically wrong. Any ARES member who tries to tell a responder how
to do their job, is automatically wrong. And for the most part, the
ARES members who turn up for training and respond with ARES for events
know this already.
Our job is to go where they ask us to go, and pass the messages they
ask us to pass, so that they can get their jobs done.
The people in our served agencies, be they volunteers like we are, or
paid professionals are trained to do specific jobs. Generally those
jobs do not involve using alternate means of communications. Most of
them could use an FRS HT if they had to, but they would much rather
concentrate on their main job. Most often they are used to using cell
phones, which experience is teaching us are the first things to go
down in an emergency.
That's where we come in. When a response team has a dedicated commo
person who handles the commo for them, they can get on with their
work. When the dedicated commo person knows their own job and does it,
the other responders can do their jobs without having to worry about
how the messages get passed.
This is why the DMAT teams have an organic (one of their own,
permanently assigned) Ham Radio Operator on each team.
This why the Salvation Army has SATERN.
This is why the Red Cross and TAEMA like having their own Rapid
Response Teams.
This is why the MMRC wants a Rapid Response Team (yes this line is a
shameless plug for the Hospital Net).
To bring this from the abstract, to the concrete, let me take some
examples from the recent ARES activation in support of the Red Cross.
First point, Larry, KC5KLM, who is the Rapid Response Team Leader for
the Red Cross RRT, received a request from the Red Cross to support
damage assessment survey teams in the flood areas.
Larry served as the Communications Unit Director for this Red Cross
group (read strike team for those of you who have taken the ICS
training). Larry served in this role, because the Red Cross did not
have anyone on there staff available to either lead or man the
communications unit, which was why the Red Cross called us in the
first place.
When Larry was unavailable, his RRT assistant, Ben Joplin, WB5VST,
filled in for him, which is standard operating procedure for ICS.
The only thing Larry directed was his Communications Unit Resources
(that's us volunteers) and that he did at the direction of the Red
Cross Employee who was the leader of the strike team that ARES was
serving.
I have heard it asked "what about the Red Cross trucks with the nice
commercial radios in them?"
Well, those trucks are special units that are used primarily to feed
disaster victims. All of those were rather busy doing their jobs
(including a few brought in from out of state) and were unavailable to
chauffer survey teams around.
The survey teams (who were flown in from out of state) were in rental
cars that had *no* communications capabilities.
And most of the teams did not have Red Cross issued cell phones even
if they would have worked where the teams were going.
This is the sort of situation that ARES was made for. Take a trained
Ham who is used to working on a controlled net, give them a HT, and
5/8 wave mag mount antenna and a small "brick" amplifier and "poof"
suddenly, all of those rental cars are capable of communications (at
least within a few miles).
The Red Cross teams were able to do their jobs better because they
communicate easily with their team leader, and he could change
assignments and take reports in real time.
Thank you for your attention
-Brian Lee Gnad, KB5TSI
ARES District Emergency Coordinator
District 1, Zone 5, Oklahoma
Serving Creek, Rogers and Tulsa Counties
Good Post Larry -
FROM BRIAN GNADD -
After a few things I have heard lately that lead me to believe that
there are some misconceptions floating around I thought I would take a
moment to address a few.
ARES in relation to the wider disaster response universe has a very
specific place in the incident command system. Pull out your IC
structure charts now, if you'd like, and follow along.
At a level under the IC (Incident commander), on the staff side, is a
"Logistics Unit". If you have one of the larger charts that breaks
things down further than this, you might see under the logistics unit
a "Communications Unit". Under the Commo Unit exists, but you won't
see it on the charts, a Ham Radio Unit.
Something you may notice about this is that us Commo Weenies are
listed as "Resources". There are ongoing efforts right now to develop
a precise NIMS "Resource Typing" for Ham Radio units. Just like they
have for generators, trucks, bulldozers, fire-fighting teams, bottled
water and toilet paper (an under-estimated strategic resource if there
ever was one).
When ARES is requested as a resource, by the local sheriff, the state
EOC, the Red Cross, or whomever, we belong to the Commo Unit director.
We are assigned by the Commo Unit Director to fill communications
roles as requested.
In some rare cases, a member of ARES may be the Commo Unit Director.
But that is still a staff position, not a command position.
Any ARES member who is filling a command role at any incident, is not
doing so as a member of ARES, but under whatever authority gave that
ARES member command. For example at least one County Director of
Emergency Management is a ARES member. But, when he is doing his job
as the DoEM, he is *NOT* doing it as an ARES member.
ARES does not "choose" its missions, other than deciding whether or
not we show up (that's the thing with volunteer organizations) . Beyond
that, we do what we are asked to do by our served agencies, to the
best of our ability.
What I am saying here is that ARES commands nothing in the disaster
response world excepting ourselves. Even that is limited; you will
notice that my title is District Emergency Coordinator, not District
Emergency Commander. My function, when you boil it down to the bare
essentials, is to come up with and feed enough commo equipment and
operators into the system to get the job done that we are asked to do.
There may be a little silver oak leaf hanging off my badge, but that
is there as a convenience for the folks in the served agencies who
don't know what a District Emergency Coordinator is, and don't want to
know and couldn't care less. All they want to know is, to whom they
need to speak to get something done, so when they walk into wherever
the ARES volunteers are waiting, they see these little rank tabs that
look very similar to the ones they use and they say "oh, I want that guy!"
Any ARES member who tries to take command of a situation or who argues
with a member of a served agency (except over a safety issue, if you
are asked to do something you believe is unsafe, sound off quick!) is
automatically wrong. Any ARES member who tries to tell a responder how
to do their job, is automatically wrong. And for the most part, the
ARES members who turn up for training and respond with ARES for events
know this already.
Our job is to go where they ask us to go, and pass the messages they
ask us to pass, so that they can get their jobs done.
The people in our served agencies, be they volunteers like we are, or
paid professionals are trained to do specific jobs. Generally those
jobs do not involve using alternate means of communications. Most of
them could use an FRS HT if they had to, but they would much rather
concentrate on their main job. Most often they are used to using cell
phones, which experience is teaching us are the first things to go
down in an emergency.
That's where we come in. When a response team has a dedicated commo
person who handles the commo for them, they can get on with their
work. When the dedicated commo person knows their own job and does it,
the other responders can do their jobs without having to worry about
how the messages get passed.
This is why the DMAT teams have an organic (one of their own,
permanently assigned) Ham Radio Operator on each team.
This why the Salvation Army has SATERN.
This is why the Red Cross and TAEMA like having their own Rapid
Response Teams.
This is why the MMRC wants a Rapid Response Team (yes this line is a
shameless plug for the Hospital Net).
To bring this from the abstract, to the concrete, let me take some
examples from the recent ARES activation in support of the Red Cross.
First point, Larry, KC5KLM, who is the Rapid Response Team Leader for
the Red Cross RRT, received a request from the Red Cross to support
damage assessment survey teams in the flood areas.
Larry served as the Communications Unit Director for this Red Cross
group (read strike team for those of you who have taken the ICS
training). Larry served in this role, because the Red Cross did not
have anyone on there staff available to either lead or man the
communications unit, which was why the Red Cross called us in the
first place.
When Larry was unavailable, his RRT assistant, Ben Joplin, WB5VST,
filled in for him, which is standard operating procedure for ICS.
The only thing Larry directed was his Communications Unit Resources
(that's us volunteers) and that he did at the direction of the Red
Cross Employee who was the leader of the strike team that ARES was
serving.
I have heard it asked "what about the Red Cross trucks with the nice
commercial radios in them?"
Well, those trucks are special units that are used primarily to feed
disaster victims. All of those were rather busy doing their jobs
(including a few brought in from out of state) and were unavailable to
chauffer survey teams around.
The survey teams (who were flown in from out of state) were in rental
cars that had *no* communications capabilities.
And most of the teams did not have Red Cross issued cell phones even
if they would have worked where the teams were going.
This is the sort of situation that ARES was made for. Take a trained
Ham who is used to working on a controlled net, give them a HT, and
5/8 wave mag mount antenna and a small "brick" amplifier and "poof"
suddenly, all of those rental cars are capable of communications (at
least within a few miles).
The Red Cross teams were able to do their jobs better because they
communicate easily with their team leader, and he could change
assignments and take reports in real time.
Thank you for your attention
-Brian Lee Gnad, KB5TSI
ARES District Emergency Coordinator
District 1, Zone 5, Oklahoma
Serving Creek, Rogers and Tulsa Counties
K5MAR
Member
For the last several years I was the Asst. Disaster Chair and assigned the role of Government Liaison for the Payne-Noble County chapter of the American Red Cross. The Disaster Chair was the E.C. for our local ARES group and I'm the assistant E.C.
Two years ago our local chapter went through a simulated disaster drill put on by representatives from the regional Red Cross office. Right after the initial incident, a F-2 striking downtown and residential areas in Stillwater, they handed down a slip that said "all cellphones are inoperative for the next 36 hours". Atn the direction of A.J. (the Disaster Chair) I contacted local ARES members to determine which ones didn't live in the affected areas and would be available to provide needed communications. These ARES volunteers were assigned (on paper) to various assets where needed. These included shelters, busses being used to pick-up the victims and take them to the shelters, etc.
When we received the evaluation from Regional, it singled out our use of amateur radio assets for positive comments. Based on that positive evaluation our chapter received a substantial grant from National, part of which funded the purchase of a van for the chapter. That van is equipped with a commercial radio on the local emergency management frequency, a dual band amateur radio, and a scanner. OMG, that's three antennas, I guess that means our Red Cross van is a whacker!
Mark S.
Two years ago our local chapter went through a simulated disaster drill put on by representatives from the regional Red Cross office. Right after the initial incident, a F-2 striking downtown and residential areas in Stillwater, they handed down a slip that said "all cellphones are inoperative for the next 36 hours". Atn the direction of A.J. (the Disaster Chair) I contacted local ARES members to determine which ones didn't live in the affected areas and would be available to provide needed communications. These ARES volunteers were assigned (on paper) to various assets where needed. These included shelters, busses being used to pick-up the victims and take them to the shelters, etc.
When we received the evaluation from Regional, it singled out our use of amateur radio assets for positive comments. Based on that positive evaluation our chapter received a substantial grant from National, part of which funded the purchase of a van for the chapter. That van is equipped with a commercial radio on the local emergency management frequency, a dual band amateur radio, and a scanner. OMG, that's three antennas, I guess that means our Red Cross van is a whacker!
Mark S.
P
PolarBear25
Guest
Medic32 said:since no one else will....
But are they (ARES) not HAM??
P
PolarBear25
Guest
fireant said:
OK.. NO..
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- Nov 1, 2005
- Messages
- 79
Ok, people who want to help found where they can contibute and i think thats great( im a volunteer too). The problem with people in general, not just hams, ares, etc. is when they run around sayin im incident command or im in charge when they werent. to me they are just tryin to make it sound like they did it for the attention than to help. kc5klm said he was "IC" on this incident and then W5HOY said he was the communications director. Which is it? Now i know some people might not know the difference but the people who do are the ones that are gonna think who is this whacker. It only takes one bad apple to ruin an entire agencies reputation.
kc5klm, i did not mean for this to be a personal attack on you and i apologize if it appears that way. Im just kinda ranting i guess. Hell if we can have a whole thread about racial issues then i think im entitled to atleast one pointless, long winded post (i know, i know, all of my post are pointless).
kc5klm, i did not mean for this to be a personal attack on you and i apologize if it appears that way. Im just kinda ranting i guess. Hell if we can have a whole thread about racial issues then i think im entitled to atleast one pointless, long winded post (i know, i know, all of my post are pointless).
Sounds like KC5KLM (Larry) was the IC of the communications.
I would have a problem with ARES showing up at an active emergency scene (i.e. a fire, hostage situation, etc) but the fact is that was not what was going on. they were there at the request of the red cross assisting them. should the RC be able to provide their own comms? probably, but that's not ARES's, Larry's, Mark's, or any other TRO member's fault.
It's easy to point a finger and be the quarterback when you're sitting at home
I would have a problem with ARES showing up at an active emergency scene (i.e. a fire, hostage situation, etc) but the fact is that was not what was going on. they were there at the request of the red cross assisting them. should the RC be able to provide their own comms? probably, but that's not ARES's, Larry's, Mark's, or any other TRO member's fault.
It's easy to point a finger and be the quarterback when you're sitting at home
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- Nov 1, 2005
- Messages
- 79
car2back said:
Thats my point, theres no such thing. if they are gonna follow the ics thats great but follow it dont pick and choose. expand and collapse like its meant to be used.
sorry to be picky its just that so many agencies use ics when they feel like it or when the incident is winding down and even then they dont use it correctly.
just out of curiousity what nims classes due red croos members take? Are they required? what about ares members? do they only take the online classes?
dbestfirefighter
Dozer
Under DHS they must be coordinated/trained through their local EOC. From my understanding anyway. OKCEM requires it for any disaster support operations.
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Hi BCFD25 - just to clear up the confusion, the information I posted was from the Zone coordinator for ARES. I don't think I indicated either IC or Communication director.
I think Larry cleared up any title information.
The overall gist is that ARES members are not to activate to any emergency without request from a served agency. Of course we know that does not always happen.That is what training is all about.
Do we, will we, can we expect to see ARES, VFD, Offduty professionals show up at emergencies without prior authorization? - the answer I think is yes. But we should all work toward the goals of training so that we can all be effective to those who are in need.
That is the goal - being as prepared as we can for those times when we are needed most.
I think Larry cleared up any title information.
The overall gist is that ARES members are not to activate to any emergency without request from a served agency. Of course we know that does not always happen.That is what training is all about.
Do we, will we, can we expect to see ARES, VFD, Offduty professionals show up at emergencies without prior authorization? - the answer I think is yes. But we should all work toward the goals of training so that we can all be effective to those who are in need.
That is the goal - being as prepared as we can for those times when we are needed most.
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