California Radio Interoperable System (CRIS)

[kg6nlw]

I guess one big question is whether all the talk on "Gold" on CRIS is also being heard on the lowband side?

I know 46-D4 was able to hear the Radio Tech on CRIS through lowband...

Regards,

-Frank C.

 

[ScannerDude244]

I do know E320/DCD20??* asked the GOLD Dispatcher yesterday afternoon if they could have the channel for a minute and did a radio check with 46-D4...So *THEY MIGHT have a unit or two with CRIS radios for system testing outside the radio techs. This was after I shut down my DSD+ for the day...

*I first heard this unit around 14:31:57 on 6/8/21 if anyone has recordings from that time...He and dispatch were a rough copy at the time for me because of my location, hence the ?? next to the unit ID above.

Regards,

-Frank C.

Are you using DSD+ FL? If you are it should have it set to auto record the audio. If not you can set it in output/pre call recording

 

[kg6nlw]

Are you using DSD+ FL? If you are it should have it set to auto record the audio. If not you can set it in output/pre call recording

I do but I had to shut down my setup shortly after 14:33...So I didn't hear the rest of the convo via DSD+ only via scanner.

Regards,

-Frank C.

 

[scannerboy02]

I do know E320/DCD20??* asked the GOLD Dispatcher yesterday afternoon if they could have the channel for a minute and did a radio check with 46-D4...So *THEY MIGHT have a unit or two with CRIS radios for system testing outside the radio techs. This was after I shut down my DSD+ for the day...

*I first heard this unit around 14:31:57 on 6/8/21 if anyone has recordings from that time...He and dispatch were a rough copy at the time for me because of my location, hence the ?? next to the unit ID above.

Regards,

-Frank C.

I know they had some officers who would talk on the conventional P25 "Gold" channel that was setup on Pine Hill, I heard it with my own ears. One was an officer going 10-10 at the office and another was an officer at a traffic crash. I have also heard Air-21 use it at least once. Being that they had some officers that were talking directly on the conventional channel it would seem to make sense that they have some officers talking directly on the TRS now.

 

[kg6nlw]

I know they had some officers who would talk on the conventional P25 "Gold" channel that was setup on Pine Hill, I heard it with my own ears. One was an officer going 10-10 at the office and another was an officer at a traffic crash. I have also heard Air-21 use it at least once. Being that they had some officers that were talking directly on the conventional channel it would seem to make sense that they have some officers talking directly on the TRS now.

That 773 P25 channel was similar to the other "Office Base" Channels but used off Pine Hill because it covered the area so well. It was a bit of a simulcast/able to talk back via 700 to low band situation.

Regards,

-Frank C.

 

[scannerboy02]

That 773 P25 channel was similar to the other "Office Base" Channels but used off Pine Hill because it covered the area so well. It was a bit of a simulcast/able to talk back via 700 to low band situation.

Regards,

-Frank C.

Yes, it was the 7CHP IF (Inspection Facility), 7CHP AIR (Aircraft), 7CHP GGB (Golden Gate Bridge) frequency. They obviously repurposed it for the Gold off Pine Hill, I'm guessing as a prof of concept that they could create a link between 700 MHz P25 and low band analog. Kind of the beginning stages of the CRIS.

 

[LAflyer]

This thread added as sticky on California discussion forum page.

 

[scannerboy02]

Something I just noticed. If you number the counties as below Santa Cruz County would be 45 and being that the suspected 'FEL TAC' talk group is 4501 and perhaps a 4502 also being related it's possible we may be seeing some kind of numbering scheme. It's also possible it's just a fluke.

I can't really explain why the CHP Gold Valley is being heard on 861 other than the standard for statewide systems is for the state to use talk groups 100 to 999 (some also use talk groups above the county numbering) so it's possible they will assign counties 2 through 9 to some other numbering.

County Number	County Name
1	STATE
2	ALAMEDA
3	ALPINE
4	AMADOR
5	BUTTE
6	CALAVERAS
7	COLUSA
8	CONTRA COSTA
9	DEL NORTE
10	EL DORADO
11	FRESNO
12	GLENN
13	HUMBOLDT
14	IMPERIAL
15	INYO
16	KERN
17	KINGS
18	LAKE
19	LASSEN
20	LOS ANGELES
21	MADERA
22	MARIN
23	MARIPOSA
24	MENDOCINO
25	MERCED
26	MODOC
27	MONO
28	MONTEREY
29	NAPA
30	NEVADA
31	ORANGE
32	PLACER
33	PLUMAS
34	RIVERSIDE
35	SACRAMENTO
36	SAN BENITO
37	SAN BERNARDINO
38	SAN DIEGO
39	SAN FRANCISCO
40	SAN JOAQUIN
41	SAN LUIS OBISPO
42	SAN MATEO
43	SANTA BARBARA
44	SANTA CLARA
45	SANTA CRUZ
46	SHASTA
47	SIERRA
48	SISKIYOU
49	SOLANO
50	SONOMA
51	STANISLAUS
52	SUTTER
53	TEHAMA
54	TRINITY
55	TULARE
56	TUOLUMNE
57	VENTURA
58	YOLO
59	YUBA

 

[kg6nlw]

Yes, it was the 7CHP IF (Inspection Facility), 7CHP AIR (Aircraft), 7CHP GGB (Golden Gate Bridge) frequency. They obviously repurposed it for the Gold off Pine Hill, I'm guessing as a prof of concept that they could create a link between 700 MHz P25 and low band analog. Kind of the beginning stages of the CRIS.

Golden Gate has always been on 770.43125 for Bridge Patrol and Turquiose Simulcast has always been on 773.78125...I think the Gold Simulcast 773.33125 has always been it's own thing like the Brown Office Base in Chico area.

Something I just noticed. If you number the counties as below Santa Cruz County would be 45 and being that the suspected 'FEL TAC' talk group is 4501 and perhaps a 4502 also being related it's possible we may be seeing some kind of numbering scheme. It's also possible it's just a fluke.

I can't really explain why the CHP Gold Valley is being heard on 861 other than the standard for statewide systems is for the state to use talk groups 100 to 999 (some also use talk groups above the county numbering) so it's possible they will assign counties 2 through 9 to some other numbering.

That's one long stretch IMHO...If anything I would think each "area" would get their own block of TG ID's...

This thread added as sticky on California discussion forum page.

Thanks @LAflyer!!


Regards,

-Frank C.

 

[scannerboy02]

Golden Gate has always been on 770.43125 for Bridge Patrol and Turquiose Simulcast has always been on 773.78125...I think the Gold Simulcast 773.33125 has always been it's own thing like the Brown Office Base in Chico area.

Yes, I'm aware the "7CHP" system never really became anything, that's why they repurposed the frequencies for CRIS.

That's one long stretch IMHO...If anything I would think each "area" would get their own block of TG ID's...

That's exactly what I'm saying, perhaps something like this, just a thought and something to maybe keep a lookout for.

County Number	County Name	Talk (Dec)	Groups (Dec)
1	STATE	100	999
2	ALAMEDA	6000	6099
3	ALPINE	6100	6199
4	AMADOR	6200	6299
5	BUTTE	6300	6399
6	CALAVERAS	6400	6499
7	COLUSA	6500	6599
8	CONTRA COSTA	6600	6699
9	DEL NORTE	6700	6799
10	EL DORADO	1000	1099
11	FRESNO	1100	1199
12	GLENN	1200	1299
13	HUMBOLDT	1300	1399
14	IMPERIAL	1400	1499
15	INYO	1500	1599
16	KERN	1600	1699
17	KINGS	1700	1799
18	LAKE	1800	1899
19	LASSEN	1900	1999
20	LOS ANGELES	2000	2099
21	MADERA	2100	2199
22	MARIN	2200	2299
23	MARIPOSA	2300	2399
24	MENDOCINO	2400	2499
25	MERCED	2500	2599
26	MODOC	2600	2699
27	MONO	2700	2799
28	MONTEREY	2800	2899
29	NAPA	2900	2999
30	NEVADA	3000	3099
31	ORANGE	3100	3199
32	PLACER	3200	3299
33	PLUMAS	3300	3399
34	RIVERSIDE	3400	3499
35	SACRAMENTO	3500	3599
36	SAN BENITO	3600	3699
37	SAN BERNARDINO	3700	3799
38	SAN DIEGO	3800	3899
39	SAN FRANCISCO	3900	3999
40	SAN JOAQUIN	4000	4099
41	SAN LUIS OBISPO	4100	4199
42	SAN MATEO	4200	4299
43	SANTA BARBARA	4300	4399
44	SANTA CLARA	4400	4499
45	SANTA CRUZ	4500	4599
46	SHASTA	4600	4699
47	SIERRA	4700	4799
48	SISKIYOU	4800	4899
49	SOLANO	4900	4999
50	SONOMA	5000	5099
51	STANISLAUS	5100	5199
52	SUTTER	5200	5299
53	TEHAMA	5300	5399
54	TRINITY	5400	5499
55	TULARE	5500	5599
56	TUOLUMNE	5600	5699
57	VENTURA	5700	5799
58	YOLO	5800	5899
59	YUBA	5900	5999

 

[mmckenna]

In the E911 database system, Santa Cruz County is County #44. Santa Clara County is #43….
Looking at your spreadsheet, they are using #1 as State which throws the numbering off by one.
But, yeah, I see where you are going.

 

[es93546]

Yes, I'm aware the "7CHP" system never really became anything, that's why they repurposed the frequencies for CRIS.

By the "7CHP" system do you mean the base or office extenders? I thought this was so an officer didn't have to leave his vehicle extender on, but just switched their extender over to the base extender while they are in the office. As I've been reading, I understand the handhelds are 700/800 MHz only. They have channels for their office low band pair, for their division Blue, with primary and secondary for each, their office base station, any local trunked system frequencies and conventional 700/800 frequencies as well. The nearly trunkful of radios in their vehicles do all the rest. If they, for example, want to talk on a local sheriff's office VHF-High repeater or to CLEMARS 154.9200 then they switch the extender to a channel labeled with what they need. The vehicle's radio system performs all the switching of the radios to enable them to RX/TX on those frequencies. I thought that progress putting in the office or base extenders was a little slow, but I'm not aware these are not going to be used or installed anymore.

Many have mentioned hearing the base extenders when they are close to a CHP office. I remember this starting several years ago. Why would they be dropping the base station extenders? Some people interpreted the licensing of these frequencies as being part of a new statewide CHP 700 MHz primary system, something people are still trying to do on this thread as you've probably noticed. As far as I know the CHP never envisioned a 700 MHz system for anything but extenders. CHP would be stupid to leave low band. Just going to VHF-High would likely require twice the sites. In their own study in San Diego County done 10-15 years ago it was indicated in that county's relatively moderate topography, going to 450+ Mhz would require 4 times the existing sites.

If you are referring to a 700 MHz system when you say "7CHP" as far as I know it never became what some people thought it would be, that is a statewide system. However, their use of 700 MHz in the handhelds is here to stay for a very long time. Then again, if "7CHP" refers to something entirely different I would love to hear about it.

 

[mmckenna]

As far as I know the CHP never envisioned a 700 MHz system for anything but extenders. CHP would be stupid to leave low band.

Many years ago there was talk of building a 700MHz trunked system. Not sure how wide spread it was going to be, but we were approached by CHP regarding a high site we have above the SF Bay Area.
Obviously it never materialized, but at one point, it was being considered.

And I've never heard of CHP having any plans to leave low band. They just invested a ton of money on new mobile radios.

 

[kg6nlw]

By the "7CHP" system do you mean the base or office extenders? I thought this was so an officer didn't have to leave his vehicle extender on, but just switched their extender over to the base extender while they are in the office. As I've been reading, I understand the handhelds are 700/800 MHz only. They have channels for their office low band pair, for their division Blue, with primary and secondary for each, their office base station, any local trunked system frequencies and conventional 700/800 frequencies as well. The nearly trunkful of radios in their vehicles do all the rest. If they, for example, want to talk on a local sheriff's office VHF-High repeater or to CLEMARS 154.9200 then they switch the extender to a channel labeled with what they need. The vehicle's radio system performs all the switching of the radios to enable them to RX/TX on those frequencies. I thought that progress putting in the office or base extenders was a little slow, but I'm not aware these are not going to be used or installed anymore.

7CHP is the nickname for the 700Mhz P25 Conventional frequencies for CHP...Similar to 7CALL/7LAW...

Regards,

-Frank C.

 

[mcjones2013]

Then again, if "7CHP" refers to something entirely different I would love to hear about it.

This is the "7CHP" system they're referring to, with the LMR channels actually being called "7CHP××"

 

[kg6nlw]

This is the "7CHP" system they're referring to, with the LMR channels actually being called "7CHP××"
View attachment 104817

Thanks for that...Do you have a higher resolution at all? It's hard to read that one even zoomed in...

Regards,

-Frank C.

 

[mcjones2013]

I didn't realize how bad that was. I'll find a better copy.

 

[kg6nlw]

I didn't realize how bad that was. I'll find a better copy.

Thanks!

Regards,

-Frank C.

 

[es93546]

This is the "7CHP" system they're referring to, with the LMR channels actually being called "7CHP××"

I'm still confused, are you saying that all the CHP mobile and base extender 700 MHz frequencies have labels of "7CHPxx" then "7CHPxx+1" and so on? As far as I know all of those were always proposed and are in use for the mobile extenders. As I understand it the base extenders are not all built out yet, but progress is being made. mmckenna passed along one interesting tidbit about the CHP thinking of a 700 MHz trunking system in his neck of the woods. I'm still confused here, I'm sorry this is off topic, but when scannerboy02 stated "I'm aware the "7CHP" system never really became anything," is not correct as you have indicated that all the existing and proposed extender, base and mobile, are the "7CHP" system. Maybe scannerboy02 was referring to a system like mmckenna is talking about.

Sorry to have so many posts off topic, but it can be cleared up here, I think.

So far, I haven't noted any new licenses for CA State on 700 MHz in Inyo or Mono Counties. I'm wondering if the state has written off the mountainous rural terrain for this 700 MHz system. I've said many times that rural counties have interoperability on VHF-High already, except with CHP, Caltrans and State Parks. CHP isn't a problem as they can connect to anyone. State Parks has VHF-High radios in their park ranger vehicles in addition to their primary 800 MHz radio. That leaves Caltrans out all by themselves, not being able to talk with anyone. Station supervisors have VHF-Low radios in their trucks. I suppose CHP can work on the Caltrans system with their huge radio setups, but I've never heard them do so. We have a lot of interagency efforts here when closing U.S. 395 for high winds and low visibility during major dumpages (of snow). Quite often 395 is closed to the north of Mammoth and sometimes south from Mammoth. I can hear all direct traffic from those road closure setups. Caltrans sends people out to manage the closures, with CHP officers out and about when a "Code Adam Henry" has to be dealt with. That code is never used on the radio, but mostly in face to face talks with each other. Sometimes both agencies set up chain checkpoints and those really need direct interagency car to car communications during setups following agreement by everyone as to where they will be located. However they just do the old "my dispatcher to your dispatcher" relaying of traffic. I think this is what CRIS is for. It would enable the county, the towns, the USFS, BLM, CDFW and State Parks to all communicate with each other using their own frequencies. If CRIS is that simple it would be a great asset even in a rural county.

 

[mcjones2013]

So far, I haven't noted any new licenses for CA State on 700 MHz in Inyo or Mono Counties.

First, the State of California has an SL license (SL - Public Safety 700 MHZ Band-State License). This gives the state a pool of 700 MHz frequencies for their exclusive use anywhere in the state, without needing to license individual sites. You will not see any individually-licensed sites for "CALIFORNIA, STATE OF" under 700 MHz because they're already licensed state-wide. I have attached the 700 MHz pool assigned to the state as filed in the license WPTZ774, publicly. This is what CRIS 700, CDCR 700, CHP 700 LMR, CHP 700 VRS, Caltrans 700, State Parks 700, Fish & Game 700 VRS, ABC 700 VRS are all licensed under, which is why you don't see any 700 licenses popping up for the state in your or any areas.

Second, there's documents related to a CHP 700 MHz LMR system. Included in the attachments is a map of the CHP 700 MHz LMR system, in addition to the VRS system and what area offices have what VRS channels, attached below. These were filed in their FCC license publicly.



The above documents are taken from the attachments sections of the below FCC filings:
ULS Application - 0006324733 - California, State of
ULS Application - 0008686288 - California, State of