Scannerboy32
Member
Do you guys know who all going to be on the (CRIS) system?
California Radio Interoperable System (CRIS)
- Thread starter mcjones2013
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Most likely you will see the majority of the central valley PD and Fire Departments since they have old aging VHF and UHF analog systems first.
Fresno, Visalia, Tulare, Bakersfield and so on. This is my guess since this system is being built out in phases and the central valley is in Phase 1
Fresno, Visalia, Tulare, Bakersfield and so on. This is my guess since this system is being built out in phases and the central valley is in Phase 1
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Will be interesting to see. From the repeater sites, that's going to have a hard time providing in-building coverage in some of the more urban/downtown areas. A far off repeater on a hill top 20+ miles away isn't going to work well.
I think this is more of a mutual aid resource and will rely more on the "system of systems" approach for local coverage.
None of the current California State mutual aid type radio systems are used like this, or intended for it.
What might happen is it will act as a catalyst to encourage more agencies to switch to 700 or 800MHz P25 systems.
Will be interesting to see if the State starts sunsetting some of the older interop/mutual aid systems when this is finally built out.
Now I'm curious if these new talk groups from the Sacramento P25 system that don't follow the SRRCS numbering scheme have anything to do with CRIS and inter-system interop? No traffic has been heard on them except for an occasional ker-chunk from CDCR radios.
| 35001 | 88b9 | D | SA-CALL | SA-CALL | Interop |
| 35003 | 88bb | D | SA-INT-1 | SA-INT-1 | Interop |
| 35005 | 88bd | D | SA-INT-2 | SA-INT-2 | Interop |
| 35007 | 88bf | D | SA-INT-3 | SA-INT-3 | Interop |
| 35009 | 88c1 | D | SA-INT-4 | SA-INT-4 | Interop |
| 35011 | 88c3 | D | SA-INT-5 | SA-INT-5 | Interop |
| 35051 | 88eb | D | DELTA TAC 1 | Delta Tac 1 | Interop |
| 35053 | 88ed | D | DELTA TAC 2 | Delta Tac 2 | Interop |
| 35055 | 88ef | D | DELTA TAC 3 | Delta Tac 3 | Interop |
| 35057 | 88f1 | D | DELTA TAC 4 | Delta Tac 4 |
After reading the PowerPoint and seeing the new talkgroup format, I’m going to go out on a limb and say I think this is a more robust replacement for the California Multi-Agency Radio System (CMARS) along with being a “system of systems” mutual aid backbone.
California Multi-Agency Radio System (CMARS) (California) Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference
Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference for California Multi-Agency Radio System (CMARS) (California)
www.radioreference.com
The talkgroups include statewide calling and tacs, county by county mutual aid talkgroups and dedicated talkgroups for statewide agencies like Cal Fire and CDCR. CMARS currently uses a statewide network of conventional 800 MHz repeaters for multi-agency use by those same statewide agencies (especially CDCR), using different PL tones for each user. I think CRIS will eventually take over the role CMARS currently serves for small CA state agencies, and CMARS will go off the air/be absorbed into the new system.
The talkgroup format that @mcjones2013 notes above, along with the fact that the talkgroups belong to CDCR (a current CMARS user) are very telling. I wouldn’t be surprised if those become inter-system links, or if CDCR transport becomes a CRIS “launch customer” given that they are currently one of the most active CMARS users.
ScannerDude244
Member
After reading the PowerPoint and seeing the new talkgroup format, I’m going to go out on a limb and say I think this is a more robust replacement for the California Multi-Agency Radio System (CMARS) along with being a “system of systems” mutual aid backbone.
California Multi-Agency Radio System (CMARS) (California) Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference
Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference for California Multi-Agency Radio System (CMARS) (California)www.radioreference.com
The talkgroups include statewide calling and tacs, county by county mutual aid talkgroups and dedicated talkgroups for statewide agencies like Cal Fire and CDCR. CMARS currently uses a statewide network of conventional 800 MHz repeaters for multi-agency use by those same statewide agencies (especially CDCR), using different PL tones for each user. I think CRIS will eventually take over the role CMARS currently serves for small CA state agencies, and CMARS will go off the air/be absorbed into the new system.
The talkgroup format that @mcjones2013 notes above, along with the fact that the talkgroups belong to CDCR (a current CMARS user) are very telling. I wouldn’t be surprised if those become inter-system links, or if CDCR transport becomes a CRIS “launch customer” given that they are currently one of the most active CMARS users.
That's exactly what I was thinking. I use to hear CDCR on CMARS every once and blue moon, but I guess they stop using it years ago. I don't think it's going to used full time for state agencies more like inigo88 said. Better interoperable
ScannerDude244
Member
I found the video of the APCO meeting where Eric Dye talks about the system starts @ 1:29:00
I just watched the video posted above, and the speaker hints to CDCR transport units being one of the agencies likely to use the system at launch.
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From looking at the phases of this project and the build out through out The State of California it looks like the whole state will have coverage.
I wouldn't be surprised once the system is fully built out that CHP will jump on board moving over to 700 mhz. This obviously would take maybe another five years or maybe longer for this to occur. But if this system can create the coverage statewide with no gaps and its built out right then it could be a great opportunity for CHP to cut over from VHF low band. Not only will the low band go away but they will be on a new upgraded system and have full interops statewide. Personally I think this would makes all good sense. Just a thought
I wouldn't be surprised once the system is fully built out that CHP will jump on board moving over to 700 mhz. This obviously would take maybe another five years or maybe longer for this to occur. But if this system can create the coverage statewide with no gaps and its built out right then it could be a great opportunity for CHP to cut over from VHF low band. Not only will the low band go away but they will be on a new upgraded system and have full interops statewide. Personally I think this would makes all good sense. Just a thought
They will never fully leave low band, but maybe not use it for all traffic, just for when they have coverage gaps.
mmckenna
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No. If you look at the PDF that was linked to, Phase 5 of the project, 2023-2034 shows a geographical coverage of 60% and a population coverage of 90%. That means 40% of the geographical areas of the state and 10% of the population will not have coverage.
That would be nothing close to what the CHP has now.
The coverage difference you'd get between VHF Low band and 700MHz is extreme. It would take hundreds, if not thousands, of sites to get that sort of coverage on 700MHz.
I'm getting ready to build out a 3 channel 800MHz conventional system right now, and trying to cover just a small part of one county is taking quite a number of sites.
And they just ordered 3000 new multi-RF deck radios, Low Band, VHF, UHF and 700/800MHz.
CDCR still uses CMARS. Hear then in the LA Basin still once in a while. Usually transports in the high desert and up towards Bakersfield.
Seriously doubtful
The state would need need a far larger, denser and expensive system to provide coverage and even then I could see 700Mhz coverage as almost nightmare in such a large and terrain diverse state of CA.
Also lets not forget, we are headed for massive budget shortfall in the coming years. Future phases of an already skinny CRIS network could likely be delayed or cut entirely as well.
CHP low band is here for many more years. Heck it still works, which is what matters ultimately.
I've been watching the development of a few systems up north. Namely, Wash State Patrol, Oregon State Radio Project, and Justice Integrated Wireless Network. They've been bringing on new TGs one county at a time. Some, such as WA SP, have moved from conventional while in other cases they're merely "repeating" TGs from the county's own system.
To me, once the sites are functional; it seems "easy" to add TGs from other trunked systems. Stanislaus, Sacramento, Roseville, Placer & Butte would match the first phase with systems already on the air to be repeated. While Stockton is not trunked, they are P25. East Bay, Silicon Valley & Monterey seem like they're ready too.
Repeating, let alone moving, CHP, would seem the the very last agency to add. Even then it might only be a "fill-in" or merely provide a means to talk agency to agency in addition to what they have now.
To me, once the sites are functional; it seems "easy" to add TGs from other trunked systems. Stanislaus, Sacramento, Roseville, Placer & Butte would match the first phase with systems already on the air to be repeated. While Stockton is not trunked, they are P25. East Bay, Silicon Valley & Monterey seem like they're ready too.
Repeating, let alone moving, CHP, would seem the the very last agency to add. Even then it might only be a "fill-in" or merely provide a means to talk agency to agency in addition to what they have now.
ScannerDude244
Member
If CHP ever does go to the new system I think they will do what Monterey County did with the Analog overlay covers where p25 doesn't alot of geteways. And lets not forget the coast that's RF hell Calfire had to use one of their planes to play repeater the other day in Palo Colorado just north of Big Sur.
mmckenna
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Maybe, will be interesting to see. As I said above, CHP recently went with the Kenwood/EFJohnson setup, will have RF decks for low band, VHF High, UHF and 7/800 MHz in their vehicles (they pretty much have this now with multiple radios). Won't be hard to add 700MHz trunked systems.
I have a couple of repeaters down south of Big Sur, and coverage down that way is a real challenge. No cell phone coverage most of the way, CHP, CalFire, Big Sur Fire Brigade, Monterey County Sheriff, they all have issues.
I agree with the above. It’s worth remembering that you don’t need a $60 million statewide P25 phase II trunking system to be “interoperable”. Thanks to the magic of newer multi-band radios like what CHP has above, potentially all it takes is an MOU between agencies to program each other’s channels.
While this will be a nice statewide interoperability backbone and give counties some extra mutual aid and overflow talkgroups for admin and EOC type traffic on major incidents, I think the “launch customers” will be the small statewide agencies that aren’t big enough to have their own existing radio infrastructure (such as those that currently subscribe to CMARS).
While this will be a nice statewide interoperability backbone and give counties some extra mutual aid and overflow talkgroups for admin and EOC type traffic on major incidents, I think the “launch customers” will be the small statewide agencies that aren’t big enough to have their own existing radio infrastructure (such as those that currently subscribe to CMARS).
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Thanks for the update. I keep forgetting that California has a crap load of coastal waters and mountains and peaks throughout the state. We are not a flat state like Texas or the mid-west where line of sight 700/800 mhz can survive. With CHP having the multi-deck radios in their consoles that means they have multiple ways of communicating. But it looks like low band is the only means for now and it works so why fix something that is not broken.
I think everybody else is right you would have to add thousands of 700 mhz repeaters and still would have issues in peaks and valleys. Not cost effective as low band can travel nicely at a 150 watts from their mobile radios for distance.
I think everybody else is right you would have to add thousands of 700 mhz repeaters and still would have issues in peaks and valleys. Not cost effective as low band can travel nicely at a 150 watts from their mobile radios for distance.
They do mention in the video that a long-term vision is to add VHF sites (funding of course being required).
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This is correct, remember P25 trunking doesn't need to be 7/800 MHz. They can use VHF and/or UHF if needed. Terrain is why Placer County went with VHF.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Absolutely, however VHF alone won't replace VHF Low band. Still not enough coverage.
And in some places, very difficult to get VHF pairs.
There needs to be some pressure on agencies that have switched to trunked systems to start giving up the majority of their VHF pairs. Far too many agencies are hoarding them. FCC needs to step in and start requiring givebacks to free up VHF pairs for smaller agencies.
And in some places, very difficult to get VHF pairs.
There needs to be some pressure on agencies that have switched to trunked systems to start giving up the majority of their VHF pairs. Far too many agencies are hoarding them. FCC needs to step in and start requiring givebacks to free up VHF pairs for smaller agencies.
