CFD Apparatus status discussion (Non-Radio Information)

[ENGINE_4]

Alberta Purchasing Connection - Interesting bid going out - Maybe part of a refurb for some trucks or more of a emergency frame rail replacement for a few particular trucks? Road salt is killing the fleet :/

Ladder 8 and DC 3 were requested and sent to the fire in Springbank on Saturday morning. Rockyview County Fire will be expanding in the next couple of years, hopefully they will get some Aerial Ladders in the fleet

 

[255-Jacobs]

CFD sure is getting ready to spend a lot of money this year. Nice to see that RVCFS is gonna be expanding. For a County so big it makes sense to have a few more halls despite all the mutual aid ones. Would be nice to see them get some Aerials too so they won't have to rely on other agencies such as Airdrie, Crossfield, Canmore, Chestermere or Calgary.

 

[ENGINE_4]

Stricter outdoor water restrictions to return to Calgary as urgent feeder main repairs needed

Calgary will return to Stage 4 outdoor water restrictions later this month as city crews begin repair work on 16 new sites on a feeder main affected by a major break two months ago.

calgary.ctvnews.ca

Level 4 water restrictions coming back Aug 26th, the Tenders and "Pumpers" should be back in service as well.

Hopefully the North part of the fleet (22,32,27,44,36,40,38,4,31,18,12) didn't receive any hail damage from the storm on Monday!

 

[255-Jacobs]

Stricter outdoor water restrictions to return to Calgary as urgent feeder main repairs needed

Calgary will return to Stage 4 outdoor water restrictions later this month as city crews begin repair work on 16 new sites on a feeder main affected by a major break two months ago.

calgary.ctvnews.ca

Level 4 water restrictions coming back Aug 26th, the Tenders and "Pumpers" should be back in service as well.

Hopefully the North part of the fleet (22,32,27,44,36,40,38,4,31,18,12) didn't receive any hail damage from the storm on Monday!

They didn't get damaged but they sure were busy. I live in 31s and I got a front seat show to it all. Never thought I'd see the day were 21EN and 34EN respond as the 1st and 3rd due units to a possible fire or 36EN responding into 32s district to assist with an MVC.

 

[255-Jacobs]

They didn't get damaged but they sure were busy. I live in 31s and I got a front seat show to it all. Never thought I'd see the day were 21EN and 34EN respond as the 1st and 3rd due units to a possible fire or 36EN responding into 32s district to assist with an MVC.

I also forgot to mention one thing that came with the storm. There were more calls than Bravo Tac Channels so North side units had to switch over to C13 and use the Charlie Tac Channels for they're calls. I don't think I've ever heard Engine 40 on C13 and responding on Tac Charlie 3.

One question for y'all. Have any of you heard any word of the peak time engines Engine 340 and Engine 341?

 

[255-Jacobs]

Afternoon mandem. Anyone know if any RED units were called out today from YYC due to today's plane crash south of the airport?

 

[MrVelvet]

Based on Flightradar data, yes they were.

 

[255-Jacobs]

Would the operation channel be one of the Bravo channels or the ARFF channels? Tac Alpha 1 or something?

 

[dhoustonAB]

From the Global News Video, Pro-Tec Apparatus Response:
Red 3
Red 5 or 6
Red 5B-Airport Chief
Red 9

CFD Response:
Engine 22-Ops
Engine 322
Hazmat 04
DC 5-CFD Incident Command
DC 6-ISO
Batt Chief

 

[Calgary_Fire_Filmer]

From the Global News Video, Pro-Tec Apparatus Response:
Red 3
Red 5 or 6
Red 5B-Airport Chief
Red 9

CFD Response:
Engine 22-Ops
Engine 322
Hazmat 04
DC 5-CFD Incident Command
DC 6-ISO
Batt Chief

The total response was CFD: E22, E32, E322, E27, E4, R27, L32, FRP7, FRP20, HM4, DC5, DC6, BATT
ProTech: R1, R2, R3, R7, R9, (3 ARFF Crash Tenders, 1 Rapid Response Truck and 1 Command Van)
CPS: Bunch of marked and unmarked units
AHS: Ambulance, Incident Response Paramedic, Supervisor

On another intersting note, the tones didn't go off in Station 4 when the plane crash came in. I think ProTech fire requested them, and called them through the station phone. Again not sure, but I didn't hear any tones before catching the Engine and Hazmat going. Anyone have any other ideas?

 

[MrVelvet]

 

[ENGINE_4]

The total response was CFD: E22, E32, E322, E27, E4, R27, L32, FRP7, FRP20, HM4, DC5, DC6, BATT
ProTech: R1, R2, R3, R7, R9, (3 ARFF Crash Tenders, 1 Rapid Response Truck and 1 Command Van)
CPS: Bunch of marked and unmarked units
AHS: Ambulance, Incident Response Paramedic, Supervisor

On another intersting note, the tones didn't go off in Station 4 when the plane crash came in. I think ProTech fire requested them, and called them through the station phone. Again not sure, but I didn't hear any tones before catching the Engine and Hazmat going. Anyone have any other ideas?

No Tender on the Air Alert 3?

Major grass fire this Monday afternoon in the NE - 80 Ave and 36th Street NE. Engines: 32,38,27 Ladder: 32, Bush Buggies: 31,23,17,19 Tender:25 DC: 5

Sounded like it was a wind driven fire that was possibly spotting ahead of itself. It took off quick. Not sure on Ladder staffing today, but potentially there was 5 Ladders out of service responding to this fire, 32 on scene, 31,17,19 - BB, Tower 25 leaving coverage at 9 to go back to 25 and pick up the Tender (they were stood down shortly after) I didn't hear, but I hope some of those Ladders/Towers had 4 ff's on board and were still able to keep the Ladder in service :/ Rescue 23 cross-staffs 23 BB, it didn't move with the Ladder to 12

 

[MrVelvet]

Not Calgary, but Edmonton is getting a new tricked out HazMat.

 

[ENGINE_4]

Rocky View County's new Ferrara FC-94 pumper is in service at Station 107 near Cross Iron Mall (has been in service for at least a few weeks)

 

[RP201]

Hook & Ladder or Tractor Drawn Aerial vs Straight frame ladder.

The most recognizable fire apparatus in the history of fire fighting, no other rig has the pageantry while traversing city streets. These iconic rigs have been around since the 1800’s.

The pros are of course; capacity, 500 to 650 square feet of storage, vs. 160 square feet of the average straight frame stick. TDA ground ladder capacity is far greater, with ladders stored in the rear and the sides. The next bit of greatness would be maneuverability, despite the length, these trucks can maneuver around the fifth wheel and articulate into tight spaces and only having two (2) outriggers, the set up is much faster than having to setup four. I believe the outrigger stance is little less on the TDAs. This means one operator can set it up.

Two drivers! The tiller driver sits higher and has greater visibility sitting above the tractor cab, however the tiller driver should receive formal training, it’s not the kinda on the job training sort of thing. The tiller driver will have a cabinet, usually under the cab on the right side of the trailer with there gear, helmet, SCBA, coat, axe, maybe a can, (water extinguisher)

You can get a quint version, LAcoFD runs a bunch of TDA quints, with pre-piped water ways.

Crew size, so typically they run with a crew of four or five. Driver, Officer, Tiller operator, one or two fire fighters in the cab.

The cons are of course… cost, these trucks are expensive and the length makes for difficulty finding halls deep enough to house them. TDAs are around 11’ high, so a bit taller than rear mounts.

Quebec City runs two tillers, I believe one is a spare, the other runs in the downtown core. Quebec City has a very European vibe, so the maneuverability is key. I think these are the only TDAs in Canada currently.

The drivers would need to upgrade their drivers license to a class 1, or the FD applies for an exemption. The TDAs weigh roughly 15 000 lbs, however the weight is distributed over a larger area.

I would love to see a few of these guys running the streets of Calgary.

 

[JABoomer]

Hook & Ladder or Tractor Drawn Aerial vs Straight frame ladder.

I would love to see a few of these guys running the streets of Calgary.

Great summary! I think you did a good job of summarizing the pros and cons, and I agree with all of your points.

Two comments:
-While a master stream and/or pump CAN be found on some TDAs, I believe these are relatively rare, leading me to believe that there's drawbacks, even it's it's only cost.
-I believe that the cost, integration, and training required to add some TDAs to the CFD fleet makes it a very unlikely proposition.

Left up to me (and you can certainly argue how educated I am on the subject), my aerial fleet would be entirely Peirce Ascendant single-axle 110' platforms. You get a longer than average reach (110'), the agility of a single axle with a shorter than average wheelbase for an aerial, and a platform for FF safety. I would get pre-piped dry trucks so they have more space for tools (and really start using them for hook and ladder type operations, both on the fire-ground and at rescue scenes), and also because I think 99% of the time an Engine is available to provide water to the master stream in a reasonable amount of time.

 

[RP201]

Great summary! I think you did a good job of summarizing the pros and cons, and I agree with all of your points.

Two comments:
-While a master stream and/or pump CAN be found on some TDAs, I believe these are relatively rare, leading me to believe that there's drawbacks, even it's it's only cost.
-I believe that the cost, integration, and training required to add some TDAs to the CFD fleet makes it a very unlikely proposition.

Left up to me (and you can certainly argue how educated I am on the subject), my aerial fleet would be entirely Peirce Ascendant single-axle 110' platforms. You get a longer than average reach (110'), the agility of a single axle with a shorter than average wheelbase for an aerial, and a platform for FF safety. I would get pre-piped dry trucks so they have more space for tools (and really start using them for hook and ladder type operations, both on the fire-ground and at rescue scenes), and also because I think 99% of the time an Engine is available to provide water to the master stream in a reasonable amount of time.

Thank you for the kind words!

Edmonton has an all rear mount platform fleet, and I expect it works for them. Personally I love ladders, true truck companies. I also believe every station should have an engine and truck, but that is highly unlikely in the current climate, but you could make a solid argument for it! The distance between halls in Calgary, definitely worth the cost. Back to the real world, if 50% of the stations had a ladder, bucket, high rise or even a fully staffed rescue, would make a huge difference.

After seeing Toronto’s Tower 1, 230 ft Bronto, you have to think a rig like that could find some use in Calgary. Toronto’s T1 is staffed with a single officer. Their job is too look after the rig and drive it to the scene if required, then a qualified crew runs the rig. So, it’s essentially a second line apparatus.

I noticed Vancouver has ordered four Pierce Assendant mid mount platforms and they got that 138 ft French (as in France) articulating platform back from trouble shooting. This is certainly a new direction for Vancouver. Ottawa Fire got themselves a 138 ft EOne stick, great reach. (I think Montreal has one)

I think Calgary would benefit from more platforms down the road. I noticed all three buckets made it to the Preswick fire. Does anyone know if they were all in operation?

I like mid mounts because the scrub angle is far better than a rear mount, unless you can back the rear mount into the scene, then it’s better performance.

 

[JABoomer]

After seeing Toronto’s Tower 1, 230 ft Bronto, you have to think a rig like that could find some use in Calgary… Toronto’s T1 is staffed with a single officer, there job is too look after the rig, and drive it to the scene if required, then a qualified crew runs the rig. So it’s essentially a second line apparatus.

I noticed Vancouver has ordered four Pierce Assendant mid mount platforms and they got that 138 ft French (as in France) articulating platform back from trouble shooting. This is certainly a new direction for Vancouver.

Calgary had the highest reach for a long time with their 1998 E-One Hurricane quad axle 167' Bronto Skylift, no? After a while it was too expensive and maintenance intensive to operate.

That Vancouver French aerial was packaged by Custom Fire. I didn't know that did Aerials. I love their videos, haha!

 

[RP201]

Calgary had the highest reach for a long time with their 1998 E-One Hurricane quad axle 167' Bronto Skylift, no? After a while it was too expensive and maintenance intensive to operate.

That Vancouver French aerial was packaged by Custom Fire. I didn't know that did Aerials. I love their videos, haha!

Montreal had the sister to Calgary’s mighty 70M Bronto. It was on a Pacific quad chassis, Ottawa had a similar 50M Bronto on a tandem Pacific back in the day. These trucks are absolute heavyweights in the fire business, however should be relegated to second line status. They are so big and heavy, Toronto went with the Mack chassis to carry the weight of the thing. If I recall, it’s a tandem steer and a tri drive rear end. It gives great up and over capability, negative decline. These trucks are so expensive, literally the crown jewel of any municipality. I think I read TFS spent 2.5 million on that beast.

 

[255-Jacobs]

Hook & Ladder or Tractor Drawn Aerial vs Straight frame ladder.

The most recognizable fire apparatus in the history of fire fighting, no other rig has the pageantry while traversing city streets. These iconic rigs have been around since the 1800’s.

The pros are of course; capacity, 500 to 650 square feet of storage, vs. 160 square feet of the average straight frame stick. TDA ground ladder capacity is far greater, with ladders stored in the rear and the sides. The next bit of greatness would be maneuverability, despite the length, these trucks can maneuver around the fifth wheel and articulate into tight spaces and only having two (2) outriggers, the set up is much faster than having to setup four. I believe the outrigger stance is little less on the TDAs. This means one operator can set it up.

Two drivers! The tiller driver sits higher and has greater visibility sitting above the tractor cab, however the tiller driver should receive formal training, it’s not the kinda on the job training sort of thing. The tiller driver will have a cabinet, usually under the cab on the right side of the trailer with there gear, helmet, SCBA, coat, axe, maybe a can, (water extinguisher)

You can get a quint version, LAcoFD runs a bunch of TDA quints, with pre-piped water ways.

Crew size, so typically they run with a crew of four or five. Driver, Officer, Tiller operator, one or two fire fighters in the cab.

The cons are of course… cost, these trucks are expensive and the length makes for difficulty finding halls deep enough to house them. TDAs are around 11’ high, so a bit taller than rear mounts.

Quebec City runs two tillers, I believe one is a spare, the other runs in the downtown core. Quebec City has a very European vibe, so the maneuverability is key. I think these are the only TDAs in Canada currently.

The drivers would need to upgrade their drivers license to a class 1, or the FD applies for an exemption. The TDAs weigh roughly 15 000 lbs, however the weight is distributed over a larger area.

I would love to see a few of these guys running the streets of Calgary.

Tillers are incredible machines. You can get the tool compliment of a rescue, the stick of a ladder, and the pump and tank of an engine all in one truck. They're great for maneuverability in small and narrow streets where big turns are difficult. If you look at the United States Tillers are everything there. Most major fire departments in the U.S have them. FDNY, South Metro, LACoFD. LA City's entire aerial fleet is all Tillers and are coupled with engines to form light forces and task forces. All these places have busy, crowded and narrow streets.

I've heard from FFs in the CFD say it's really difficult to turn the ladders and HRS 2 in Downtown since it's so tight and they take 2 lanes when they make their turns. Going back to the size, tillers can fit everything the rescues have and then some. If the CFD wants to phase out rescues, Tillers would be a great replacement. Plumb a water way into them and excellent aerial streams can be set up. The 2 outriggers help minimize space taken and since the trailer portion can turn you can set it up at better angles. But in the end, it all comes down the mighty dollar. These machines are expensive. But the way they are built what do you expect? I still think the CFD could benefit from TDAs. Especially in the Core and the areas with bad traffic and tight turns.