CFD Apparatus status discussion (Non-Radio Information)

[RP201]

Lastly, any ideas about Station 13? It must be getting a permanent hall at some point, but where could you even put it? Being such a low number, it should be somewhat close to the core, but there really isn't much room around. Love to hear some ideas!

Nice post!

We have had this conversation in the past, and I’ll share that thought with this thread.

With station 3 opening in Inglewood and 1 move across the river in Bridgeland, I think potentially, old station 2, the EMS station would make a great location for 13.

CFD would have the core nicely surrounded with apparatus running into the core.

Mr. CFF I love your post, I have a question; what about a High rise? Or would you combine that into the air lights?

This “Squad” term or label always seems to get connected to FDNY. Squad actually means team. Throughout the firefighting community, the label is usually associated with Rescue Pumps or Rescue Engines, however this is certainly not an absolute. TFS calls there Rescue Pumps, Rescue, same with Winnipeg. Squads in Toronto are Heavy Rescues. Vancouver calls there MRU's; Rescues, Rescue Engines are Squads, and on and on.

Remember CFD used to call Quints Engines in some instances. So it really doesn’t matter what you label the truck, it’s what it can do. FDNY Squad Companies are an anomaly in firefighting circles, basically they are Heavy Rescue HazMat teams with an Engine. The FDNY has a long history with many many big tragic events, this fire culture is very big on training and being ready for anything, because they have lived it. Until a community experiences these epic events, they typically do what they always do, until things change or events dictate otherwise.

The whole point of an enhanced Engine or Pump is to bring an added dimension. If every Ladder, Engine and Rescue carries auto ex tools, then that is not an enhanced Engine, it’s an Engine. So if these Engines are going to be used for coverage, or because the station they run from is a high call volume location, then they are Engines.

Enhanced Engines should have an extra skill set. This should be an incentive to get firefighters interested in participating. Maybe Squads, could be hazardous materials assessment Engines, or part of a Technical Rescue Task Force. So, instead of carrying around a bunch of gear, they have meters for detection, kinda "mop and glow" team.

We build them ETM engines with Rescue bodies, so they can carry a few goodies, and a smooth bore nozzle on the deck gun. (You can change a nozzle in five minutes) smooth bore is better penetration, fogs are ok. Smooth bore will give you better reach. So if it’s just a label, then it’s just that, a label or a number.

A few years back, the city of Ottawa acquired a bunch of Brush Trucks, or Bush Buggy, or Wild Land. They are Maxi Metal trucks with body lifts, aggressive tires and I think a bumper turret.

 

[RP201]

Did some buffing on the weekend. Caught a couple local rigs outside in the sun. 🌞

 

[255-Jacobs]

It's like every engine in the province has the enclosed top mount pump. Now if this is a Calgary influence or general logic, is still a toss up.

 

[RP201]

It's like every engine in the province has the enclosed top mount pump. Now if this is a Calgary influence or general logic, is still a toss up.

That style is becoming more common in colder climates.

 

[JABoomer]

My dream for the CFD in the future would consist of this.

11 Ladder Companies: To be placed in various areas of the city, as the dept sees fit. All go with the same model. Just like Ladder 1, Pierce 107ft, straight stick, no Pumps. Run with 4 ffs, 2 jump seats. Also help delegate the responsibilities and equipment that our rescue units carry right now.

4 Tower Ladder Companies: To be placed in various areas around the city, as the dept sees fit. All go with the same model. Just like Tower 19, Pierce 100ft, Aerial platform, no Pumps. Run with 4 ff's, 2 jump seats. Along with serving the responsibility of carrying rescue gear, it also would be designed to assist with higher acuity calls, such as being attached on a 2nd or 3rd alarm assignment. This also stems into specialties like TRT, where the Towers can offer that platform for stokes, repel and aerial ops. Last big difference, Towers aren't crossed with Bush Buggies. With the addition of 3 Ladders in this fleet, it would offset the requirements of cross-staffing between 31TW/BB, 19TW/BB and 25TW/TE. Only having Ladders crossed would allow for Towers to be free to offer their additional services all the time.

3-4 Technical (Heavy) Rescue Companies: Placed at Stn.16, Stn.17, Stn.39 (and Stn.32). Hall wise, this is a good place because all three (or four) are large halls, with enough space for training and equipment storage. Furthermore, all halls aren't too busy, and have great access to major roadways. 16 and 17 are close to downtown, but don't get sucked into the vortex all too often.

32 and 39 are the outliers, and offer support to the areas further from the core. These units would be larger, walk-in Pierce rescues, and look quite similar to FDNYs Rescue companies. As much as CFD wants to make their rigs smaller, I think there is some real advantages to having all their gear on the truck. Assignments would be the same, and staffed with 4-6 firefighters depending on staffing.

Rescues would stop being assigned on alarms and MVCs. However, they would still be sent on all structure fire cards, major MVCs, train/plane events and TRT calls. Anything high acuity and can't be handled by the equipment on the Ladders or Engines.

2 Air-Light/Rehab Support Companies: These would be single axel Freightliners that serve two purposes. Carry SCBA bottles and bring the tables and Gatorade for rehab. No fancy refiller, no compressor or generator, no additional, crazy equipment. Take a page from Toronto Fire, and how they run their Air Lights. Cab with only two seats. Get rid of the High Rise, it doesn't serve it's purpose anymore.



3 Tender Companies: These would be staffed with two ff's, and be a complete reversal of what we've had. Get rid of all the lockers, heavy tools and unneeded equipment. All Tenders need to do are carry water, and more water. The new Tender at 21 is a good example of this, as it carries the least amount of equipment and has the largest tank, even though it's the smallest of the Tenders. We don't need the type of Tenders that 25 has and 21/32 used to have.

5 Bush Buggies: Same thing as now, two ff's, crossed with only Ladders though. However, get rid of the current BB style. The trucks are so heavy that they are hard to offroad on (which is the whole point) Duallies are notorius for getting stuck in the mud, and overall they don't truly serve their purpose. I would want to see them go with the 4x4 lifted bush buggies. 4 tires, lifted well off the ground, nothing but a tank, a hose and a couple extra tools. Keep em light, keep em mobile, keep em full of water.


These trucks could also be the ones to feature the different liveries CFD goes with, such as the Canada 150 or the Indigenous wrap. That way more of the public can see them, as the Squads would be moving around so much anyways. Just aesthetically, I would like every Engine in the city to be identical. (On a side note, I would like to see a variation of CFD wraps. Not so say that the 150 isn't cool, but it was almost 7 years ago now. Speaking completely personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a Canada Wrap, an Indigenous Wrap, a Flames/Stampeders Wrap and then a couple others like Breast Cancer Awareness or Gay/LGBTQ Pride. As I know other major cities in Canada and North America have featured those before)

Awesome post! Somewhat similar to one I made almost a year ago: CFD Apparatus status discussion (Non-Radio Information)

How close is the added cost/complexity of a mixed Ladder/Tower fleet to not being worth it? I put a lot of value on the single fleet type.

The tandem Rescues are interesting. Mobility/agility versus the amount of equipment carried. I like the idea of a Rescue Support truck who could bring in the rest of the unique rescue equipment as needed.

No compressor Air/Light is interesting. I do wonder how often such a compressor gets used. Or if you need it, you REALLY need it.

I like the idea of combining the Tenders with industrial Pumper features (bigger pump and monitor), to give them more uses.

I agree, most Bush Buggies actually can't traverse terrain all that well. What do you think of interface Engines that can assist on structure fires as well as having increased mobility?

Agree on the wraps!

 

[JABoomer]

I thought I would see this someday. I was watching this:

And they've turned the pump panel, foam control, deck gun, lights, and radios into this:



Which makes me wonder how long until CFD tries something similar and we no longer have this:

 

[Calgary_Fire_Filmer]

Thanks for the feedback! For @RP201 my thoughts on the High Rise are a little different than it is now. The Air Lights don't use the compressor, because when their on scene the air quality is so bad with smoke, they can't fill bottles.
Right now there are fill stations at 4, 16, 17 and the Training Academy. These are great for filling bottles, so CFD really just needs a truck to shuttle bottles back and forth, hence the smaller TFS-style Air Lights.
High Rise specifically, the only difference is the high rise carts in the back. Filled with extra Siamese connection hoses, bottles, and other equipment for bringing up on elevators during high rise fires. However, those carts have never been used before. So, if they are a necessity (which, under the right circumstance and call they would be) it should be put in a Pod, where it can be mobilized if the call requires it. Theres no reason to carry all that extra weight for a 1 in a million call.

As for @JABoomer I think there is some real positives in having a mixed Ladder/Tower fleet. I don't like the CFD Ladders right now, since some are 2011 Smeals, then the 2008 Pierce, 2023 Pierce, 2019 Pierce, 2008 Smeal, not to mention the 2004 Smeals, 2006 E-Ones and the big E-One Bronto. With a fleet with so much variability, it's hard for operators to memorize all the different idiosyncracies between the Aerials.

In my opinion, Calgary should have an all Pierce fleet, with the Ladders and Towers being identical except for the bucket. By having an all Ladder or Tower fleet, there are some cons. Like the ability to stand up straight and tap into an oxygen tank while pouring water onto a warehouse. That helps reduce the body strain on firefighters. Whereas with Ladders, their great for victim rescue and getting right up into window sills or other tight spaces. I think for such a diversely constructed city like Calgary, a fleet would need to be comprised of both.

 

[RP201]

That’s insightful! Many Air/Light trucks around North America are doing away with on scene air compressors, the filtration is not adequate to keep out some harmful particles. Cascade systems are ok, but are limited in volume of clean air. The Toronto A/Ls (4) used to carry 125 air bottles and a dozen oxygen cylinders. The trucks also carry fans, generators, rehab stuff, however TFS also runs three rehab units, two are staffed by volunteers (Support 7 & Box 12). Now Toronto has recently purchased two larger Air/Lights. (Longer bodies) The trucks are straight forward commercial cabs and chassis, Freightliner M2 106, similar to CFDs current rig. They have a crew of two, Junior Captain and Firefighter.

The Ladder issue is always a fun one. Everyone does it differently. CFD is the third largest fire department in Canada, so the only comparable services are Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver.

Toronto has 84 stations, with three more coming, currently they run 83 engines and 26 ladders. So roughly 3.5 engines to ladders. (Mainly straight sticks and a few platforms)

Montreal on the other hand, 67 stations with 70 engines and 51 ladders, so more than half. Two T-Rex and five mid mount buckets.

Vancouver is smaller than CFD, but worth mentioning. 22 stations, 22 engines and 11 ladders, currently no buckets, but they bought 2, and ordered three more mid mounts. So half the stations have ladders.

Calgary is at 43 stations and growing, 49 engines and only 14 ladders including 3 buckets. With long runs between stations, (not the core) I think more Ladders is a welcome addition. I’d like to see 20 Ladders, at least 10 buckets and staffed with four and five on each Engine.

Is the day time Engine still happening? 340 and 341?

 

[JABoomer]

As for @JABoomer I think there is some real positives in having a mixed Ladder/Tower fleet. I don't like the CFD Ladders right now, since some are 2011 Smeals, then the 2008 Pierce, 2023 Pierce, 2019 Pierce, 2008 Smeal, not to mention the 2004 Smeals, 2006 E-Ones and the big E-One Bronto. With a fleet with so much variability, it's hard for operators to memorize all the different idiosyncracies between the Aerials. In my opinion, Calgary should have an all Pierce fleet, with the Ladders and Towers being identical except for the bucket. By having an all Ladder or Tower fleet, there are some cons. Like the ability to stand up straight and tap into an oxygen tank while pouring water onto a warehouse. That helps reduce the body strain on firefighters. Whereas with Ladders, their great for victim rescue and getting right up into window sills or other tight spaces. I think for such a diversely constructed city like Calgary, a fleet would need to be comprised of both.

I've always read that Ladders provide better access for rescues than Towers, but I don't see it. If you can get the Ladder cornered against a building window/balcony .. you'd be able to put the corner of the bucket against the same window/balcony. And then the FF isn't rescuing people hanging off a ladder, and the civilians don't have to climb down the ladder.

It's not like they have to jump out of the bucket, they have doors.

I am sure there's specific situation where one is better than the other, but the platform seems like it would make a FF's life easier 99% of the time. Maybe I'm missing something?

 

[JABoomer]

The ladder issue is always a fun one. Everyone does it differently. CFD is the third largest fire department in Canada, so the only comparable services are Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver.

Toronto has 84 stations, with three more coming, currently they run 83 engines and 26 ladders. So roughly 3.5 engines to ladders. (Mainly straight sticks and a few platforms)

Montreal on the other hand, 67 stations with 70 engines and 51 ladders, so more than half. Two T-Rex and five mid mount buckets.

Vancouver is smaller than CFD, but worth mentioning. 22 stations, 22 engines and 11 ladders, currently no buckets, but they bought 2, and ordered three more mid mounts. So half the stations have ladders.

Calgary is at 43 stations and growing, 49 engines and only 14 ladders including 3 buckets. With long runs between stations, (not the core) I think more ladders is a welcome addition. I’d like to see 20 ladders, at least 10 buckets and staffed with four and five on each engine.

That's really interesting. Does that have to do with Calgary being more sprawled (more land area for a given population) than other cities?

 

[RP201]

Rescuing or making grabs is priority # 1 for FD's, so getting a ladder up to someone is key. If they need assistance like a stokes, or in a wheelchair, then a bucket is best and personally I think the Bronto is king, with its reach and up and over with the jib section.
But the things are slow to set up, where a mid mount platform has the best scrub and is relatively quick to setup. I also like single axle Ladders like 30 Ladder. Short, maneuverable, and quick to get in the air.

That's really interesting. Does that have to do with Calgary being more sprawled (more land area for a given population) than other cities?

Calgary is a huge city in population and physical area. City council could easily add 5 stations into existing communities and greatly improve response times.

 

[JABoomer]

Rescuing or making grabs is priority # 1 for FDs, so getting a ladder up to someone is key. If they need assistance like a stokes, or in a wheelchair, then a bucket is best and personally I think the Bronto is king with its reach and up and over with the jib section. But the things are slow to set up, where a mid mount platform has the best scrub and is relatively quick to setup. I also like single axle ladders like 30 ladder. Short, maneuverable, and quick to get in the air.

Good points. It also seems like Brontos require more maintenance downtime than straight sticks. I used to be enthralled with Towers with a jib, like the old Sky Arm



or the new King Cobra.


Now my thoughts are that agility is just as important, so the Ascendant 110 platform is my favorite. They've keep the platform simple and fit-for-purpose IMO.

 

[RP201]

Good points. It also seems like Brontos require more maintenance downtime than straight sticks. I used to be enthralled with Towers with a jib, like the old Sky Arm

View attachment 169106

or the new King Cobra.

View attachment 169107
Now my thoughts are that agility is just as important, so the Ascendant 110 platform is my favorite. They've keep the platform simple and fit-for-purpose IMO.

View attachment 169105

Pierce makes really nice trucks, and that Ascendant is very cool, Rosy is coming out with some interesting stuff and the new cabs have that American LaFrance look. The SkyArm was a really handy set up.

 

[255-Jacobs]

That’s insightful! Many Air/Light trucks around North America are doing away with on scene air compressors, the filtration is not adequate to keep out some harmful particles. Cascade systems are ok, but are limited in volume of clean air. The Toronto A/Ls (4) used to carry 125 air bottles and a dozen oxygen cylinders. The trucks also carry fans, generators, rehab stuff, however TFS also runs three rehab units, two are staffed by volunteers (Support 7 & Box 12). Now Toronto has recently purchased two larger Air/Lights. (Longer bodies) The trucks are straight forward commercial cabs and chassis, Freightliner M2 106, similar to CFDs current rig. They have a crew of two, Junior Captain and Firefighter.

The Ladder issue is always a fun one. Everyone does it differently. CFD is the third largest fire department in Canada, so the only comparable services are Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver.

Toronto has 84 stations, with three more coming, currently they run 83 engines and 26 ladders. So roughly 3.5 engines to ladders. (Mainly straight sticks and a few platforms)

Montreal on the other hand, 67 stations with 70 engines and 51 ladders, so more than half. Two T-Rex and five mid mount buckets.

Vancouver is smaller than CFD, but worth mentioning. 22 stations, 22 engines and 11 ladders, currently no buckets, but they bought 2, and ordered three more mid mounts. So half the stations have ladders.

Calgary is at 43 stations and growing, 49 engines and only 14 ladders including 3 buckets. With long runs between stations, (not the core) I think more Ladders is a welcome addition. I’d like to see 20 Ladders, at least 10 buckets and staffed with four and five on each Engine.

Is the day time Engine still happening? 340 and 341?

I think what you described with the Ladder to Engine ratio is CFDs master plan in the end game. You have 8 sticks and 3 buckets and 43 stations (46 Stations by the end of 2027) 6 Rescues get converted to sticks bringing us to 14 sticks and 3 buckets and a grand total 17 Aerials (this is excluding spares) That's the plan currently. 14 Pierce Enforcer 107' Sticks. and 3 Pierce Enforcer 100' RM Towers.

The department currently, as far as I know, has no plans to increase the number of Towers. They were the first ones to get replaced so the Dept is focusing on replacing the 2011 Quints and adding six more sticks. The CFD seems to like the number 3 when it comes to specialty units anyway. 3 Towers, 3 Boats, 3 HazMats. Maybe once all the sticks are replaced and all the Rescues are phased out, then CFD might shift they're focus to adding more Towers to the fleet. (Gotta replace all the Engines first however)

 

[RP201]

I found this copy of “Third Alarm” from 2020, and it has an interesting article about “super towers” in particular CFDs 1998 50M Bronto.

For anyone not familiar, it’s the official news letter from the Ontario Fire Buffs Association.

http://box52.org/TorontoMar2020.pdf

 

[JABoomer]

Question about Aerial usage. Obviously the big pluses for a Tower is the safer platform to perform rescues, work a master stream, or get onto a roof. I think the single axle Ascendant does a nice job of limiting the size and weight of the truck, while still providing that safer platform to work from. The only disadvantage from a Ladder I can see, is the extended front length of the platform while turning of the road. Obviously everything is a compromise.

The question is: on structure fires in Calgary, how often is an aerial device (Ladder/Platform) deployed/extended for rescue, ventilation, or master stream? Most times, because, why not? Or actually infrequently, unless it's a big blaze?

I'm just curious because if the aerial devices aren't being used a ton, it may make sense for fewer, centrally located, bigger Towers, and then more numerous Ladder Tenders for the Hook and Ladder crews to get to fires.

Just thinking out loud.

 

[RP201]

Question about Aerial usage. Obviously the big pluses for a Tower is the safer platform to perform rescues, work a master stream, or get onto a roof. I think the single axle Ascendant does a nice job of limiting the size and weight of the truck, while still providing that safer platform to work from. The only disadvantage from a Ladder I can see, is the extended front length of the platform while turning of the road. Obviously everything is a compromise.

The question is: on structure fires in Calgary, how often is an aerial device (Ladder/Platform) deployed/extended for rescue, ventilation, or master stream? Most times, because, why not? Or actually infrequently, unless it's a big blaze?

I'm just curious because if the aerial devices aren't being used a ton, it may make sense for fewer, centrally located, bigger Towers, and then more numerous Ladder Tenders for the Hook and Ladder crews to get to fires.

Just thinking out loud.

Deck guns are some of the most under utilized pieces of equipment, some departments like Detroit, use them with great effect, others like Toronto, don’t have them on their Pumpers.

I think it’s a cultural thing, if you’re fighting a lot of fire like Detroit, or Harrisburg PA, or even Montreal, they tend to use every tool in the box. More modern cities may not see as much of that work. FDNY, Boston, or LAFD, all big comparable departments have huge investments in “trucks” in the traditional sense. FDNY and Boston are around 70% Ladders, no Quints, LAFD is 50%.
I’ve buffed all three, and when they pull up on a commercial alarm call, you see the stabilizers put down, everyone has a tool in their hands and is ready to work. Second Engine goes to the nearest hydrant.
Depending on the nature of the call, manpower might be the order of the day, and one ladder to the roof might be enough. If you watch YouTube clips from FDNY or one of the others, you will see ladders going up to the roof or a balcony.

Some of these communities with limited access or condos jammed together can be very difficult for ladders to maneuver. Despite that, the crew is really what is needed.

My favourite department to buff was Buffalo NY. When they get an alarm of fire, there turn out is 3 Engines, 2 Ladders, and additional Ladder as the FAST truck (RIT). This includes 2 Battalion Chiefs (District) and a Division Chief (Shift Commander), Rescue, and A/L. They will immediately put up a ladder to the roof, with second Ladder crew will make entry with the Rescue crew and begin searching. The engine guys will stretch into the structure and try and extinguish the fire.

Ladders bring a vital dimension to fire fighting, access, extrication, forced entry, search & rescue, elevated master stream, basically everything a rescue can do with a big ladder.

Buffalo has 19 stations, with 9 trucks. They run one stick, the rest are rear mount and mid mount platforms. They are very very busy.

 

[ENGINE_4]

The question is: on structure fires in Calgary, how often is an aerial device (Ladder/Platform) deployed/extended for rescue, ventilation, or master stream? Most times, because, why not? Or actually infrequently, unless it's a big blaze?

I can't speak for CFD but from what I have seen over the years on well involved, single family dwelling structure fires and multi family unit building fires (I'm talking WELL involved with fire, usually with exposure issues) Ladders (Aerials) are getting used every single time

On small one bedroom/ fire knocked down in 2 minute kinds of fires I would say Ladder trucks are being setup and used maybe 40% of the time. CFD is not like some cities of its size or bigger where 2 or more Ladder trucks are sent and set up at every scene. That being said we have to understand CFD's history.

The FIRST real Tower ladder to Calgary was the 2004 Smeal 100' rear-mount that is now gone. CFD only had the Bronto and firebird before that as Towers. So only 20 years of Tower Ladder experience.

Another thing is staffing, CFD is only now getting into having 3-4 ff's on Ladders, Ladder (Aerial) trucks have always been viewed as "support" apparatus staffed with 2 ff's. This means only 12 firefighters historically would show up on a first alarm fire scene, not always within the 12 minute target time which means there was less firefighters on scene to accomplish key tasks.

Because of the staffing and the "support" truck view Ladders were often parked and the crew assisted/were assigned to whatever needed to be done next on scene - search, additional hose laid, etc.. They were NOT assigned to specific "Truck" duties

Lastly, (this makes me a little sad) because of the lack of Ladder trucks AND Ladder trucks being out of position at times, Ladders some times arrive in the 16-20ish minute mark of a fire and by that time 4-6 Engines have already arrived on scene and are blocking access points for a Ladder truck to get up close and be affective. So at times a elevated master stream or roof access from a Ladder truck could not be made (I have witnessed this at a few fires over the years in the city)


So with more Ladders and firefighters to staff those Ladders properly, we will see a better laid out response and response times across the city and maybe "truck" specific assignments on the fire ground. But we will just have to wait and see how it plays out in the next 2 years

 

[JABoomer]

I can't speak for CFD but from what I have seen over the years on well involved, single family dwelling structure fires and multi family unit building fires (I'm talking WELL involved with fire, usually with exposure issues) Ladders (Aerials) are getting used every single time

On small one bedroom/ fire knocked down in 2 minute kinds of fires I would say Ladder trucks are being setup and used maybe 40% of the time. CFD is not like some cities of its size or bigger where 2 or more Ladder trucks are sent and set up at every scene. That being said we have to understand CFD's history.

The FIRST real Tower ladder to Calgary was the 2004 Smeal 100' rear-mount that is now gone. CFD only had the Bronto and firebird before that as Towers. So only 20 years of Tower Ladder experience.

Another thing is staffing, CFD is only now getting into having 3-4 ff's on Ladders, Ladder (Aerial) trucks have always been viewed as "support" apparatus staffed with 2 ff's. This means only 12 firefighters historically would show up on a first alarm fire scene, not always within the 12 minute target time which means there was less firefighters on scene to accomplish key tasks.

Because of the staffing and the "support" truck view Ladders were often parked and the crew assisted/were assigned to whatever needed to be done next on scene - search, additional hose laid, etc.. They were NOT assigned to specific "Truck" duties

Lastly, (this makes me a little sad) because of the lack of Ladder trucks AND Ladder trucks being out of position at times, Ladders some times arrive in the 16-20ish minute mark of a fire and by that time 4-6 Engines have already arrived on scene and are blocking access points for a Ladder truck to get up close and be affective. So at times a elevated master stream or roof access from a Ladder truck could not be made (I have witnessed this at a few fires over the years in the city)


So with more Ladders and firefighters to staff those Ladders properly, we will see a better laid out response and response times across the city and maybe "truck" specific assignments on the fire ground. But we will just have to wait and see how it plays out in the next 2 years

Thanks! Very informative!

 

[255-Jacobs]

History question guys. E4606. The last 2006 Engine to be auctioned off.

I was looking through some photos taken by the late Jason Low (may he continue to rest in peace) and I came across something interesting about E4606. This photo was taken in the early 2000's so it's SN at the time was P4606. The interesting part about this Engine was the decal and number it had. It read "ENGINE 3".
It's to my knowledge that Station 36 in Hidden Valley used to be numbered Station 3, but it was closed down for a bit. In 2008, Pump 36 became the 2nd Engine out of Station 2. Is this Engine 3 just supposed to be Engine 36 or is there something I'm missing?