CFD Apparatus status discussion (Non-Radio Information)

[255-Jacobs]

3 inches and 5 inches in diameter, if I remember correctly. Not sure about length.

On a side note. A L1 Lt told me that they should've received their new Ladder this week or during Stampede which is now. Still nothing on that yet. And 31 still doesn't seem to have their new Tower yet (Maybe they still need guys trained on it? Or a something happening at Fleet?)

 

[JABoomer]

On a side note. A L1 Lt told me that they should've received their new Ladder this week or during Stampede which is now. Still nothing on that yet. And 31 still doesn't seem to have their new Tower yet (Maybe they still need guys trained on it? Or a something happening at Fleet?)

L01 (ladder) and E01 were in the parade on Friday!

3 inches and 5 inches in diameter, if I remember correctly. Not sure about length.

I'm assuming these aren't preconnects?

 

[255-Jacobs]

Yeah. Those are the the diameters for the supply lines in the back which aren't pre-connected. The diameter for the pre-connected crosslays ranges from 1 inch to 1¼ inches to 1½ inches.

 

[ENGINE_4]

Does anyone know what preconnected hose diameters and lengths are on a typical (new) CFD engine? I guess what other non-preconnected hose is on there as well?

Excellent question!
First off, you must know CFD like every other fire department with its fleet, strives to keep everything simple and uniform across their fleet. So every Engine, Ladder, Rescue, Sqaud, etc.. should be ROUGHLY laid out the same and have the same tool assortment and such.

With all CFD Engines, 2008's, 2010's, 2016-2021's They all carry the same hose, all the same pre-connects and are mainly laid out the same. Obviously, the 2010's are way bigger then the newer style of Engines on the streets, so some things may vary.

ALSO, some Engines maybe laid out SLIGHTLY different from others in the fleet. Like Engine 1's Highrise pack might be in a different compartment than Engine 35's, because 35 doesn't see that many Highrise calls, but sees more auto accidents instead.
Some Engines might carry more wild lands hose, etc..

What I'm saying is that all Engines have the same stuff and tools. They are usually in the same place, except for an Engine here or there, depending on their District.. Some things might be slightly changed.

For hose size though, its been a hot minute since I've had the privilege of going through an Engine, so I'll do my best and please someone. Correct me if I'm wrong, but starting at the front bumper - what's know as a "Trash line" 30M or 100ft of 44mm or 1 3/4" attack line with a straight bore nozzle?

Above the pump, again - ALL ENGINES: 2 - 61M or 200ft of 44mm or 1 3/4" attack lines (I don't know what nozzles are used) and 1 - 61M or 200ft of 65mm or 2 1/2" attack line.

In the compartments you will find 4 - 15M or 50ft lengths of 77mm or 3" hose - used for connecting to Ladders/Tower Ladders and FDC standpipe systems, and smaller lengths of 65mm/ 2 1/2" and 125mm/5" lengths of hose to connect to a hydrant or Engine that is close

There are also Highrise packs, 1 or 2 lengths of 1 3/4' and 1 or 2 lengths of 2 1/2"

You will also find a "wildland" pack, I think it was 30M/100ft of 3/4" hose or 1" forestry hose for wildland/grass fires. I wish and hope that CFD will add to this and maybe add more packs or come up with a new pack for wildland/grass fire calls

Rear bed, 305M or 1000ft of 125mm/5" supply hose and what I LOVE, a split bed of 366M or 1200 feet of 65mm/ 2 1/2" hose which consists of 700ft flat load and 300ft which is set up as a horizontal standpipe/blitz fast attack line. It's not preconnected, but you know what you have and what you're pulling when you go for it. I hope this helps!

 

[255-Jacobs]

Did not know that the equipment on engines varries depending on an engines location. But if you think it about it, it does make a lot of sense that the 5 engines in the core would have highrise packs while engines located in more grassy wildfire prone areas such as 40 would carry some wildland hose.

 

[ENGINE_4]

All Engines carry Highrise hose, all engines carry Wildland hose. like I said, every Engine carries the same stuff, you might just find one or two things in different compartments. Every Engine is considered an "all hazard" truck. So that is why every Engines carries medical gear, water rescue gear, spreaders, rope, etc..

 

[JABoomer]

Excellent question!
First off, you must know CFD like every other fire department with its fleet, strives to keep everything simple and uniform across their fleet. So every Engine, Ladder, Rescue, Sqaud, etc.. should be ROUGHLY laid out the same and have the same tool assortment and such.

With all CFD Engines, 2008's, 2010's, 2016-2021's They all carry the same hose, all the same pre-connects and are mainly laid out the same. Obviously, the 2010's are way bigger then the newer style of Engines on the streets, so some things may vary.

ALSO, some Engines maybe laid out SLIGHTLY different from others in the fleet. Like Engine 1's Highrise pack might be in a different compartment than Engine 35's, because 35 doesn't see that many Highrise calls, but sees more auto accidents instead.
Some Engines might carry more wild lands hose, etc..

What I'm saying is that all Engines have the same stuff and tools. They are usually in the same place, except for an Engine here or there, depending on their District.. Some things might be slightly changed.

For hose size though, its been a hot minute since I've had the privilege of going through an Engine, so I'll do my best and please someone. Correct me if I'm wrong, but starting at the front bumper - what's know as a "Trash line" 30M or 100ft of 44mm or 1 3/4" attack line with a straight bore nozzle?

Above the pump, again - ALL ENGINES: 2 - 61M or 200ft of 44mm or 1 3/4" attack lines (I don't know what nozzles are used) and 1 - 61M or 200ft of 65mm or 2 1/2" attack line.

In the compartments you will find 4 - 15M or 50ft lengths of 77mm or 3" hose - used for connecting to Ladders/Tower Ladders and FDC standpipe systems, and smaller lengths of 65mm/ 2 1/2" and 125mm/5" lengths of hose to connect to a hydrant or Engine that is close

There are also Highrise packs, 1 or 2 lengths of 1 3/4' and 1 or 2 lengths of 2 1/2"

You will also find a "wildland" pack, I think it was 30M/100ft of 3/4" hose or 1" forestry hose for wildland/grass fires. I wish and hope that CFD will add to this and maybe add more packs or come up with a new pack for wildland/grass fire calls

Rear bed, 305M or 1000ft of 125mm/5" supply hose and what I LOVE, a split bed of 366M or 1200 feet of 65mm/ 2 1/2" hose which consists of 700ft flat load and 300ft which is set up as a horizontal standpipe/blitz fast attack line. It's not preconnected, but you know what you have and what you're pulling when you go for it. I hope this helps!

That was fantastic, thank you! Is there really that much difference in the size of the older (2010) engines? It just looks like the very rear side compartments are a foot or two longer to me.

 

[255-Jacobs]

Size would be the most notable difference between the 2010 and the 2016 and beyond engines. The 2010 engines are just a bit longer probably to fit more equipment or water. I don't know for sure because it seems like both generations of engines hold the same amount of equipment regardless.

 

[ENGINE_4]

I think it’s a 2 or 4 foot difference. I think that and the aux power unit, and the 2-stage pumps are the only real differences.

 

[JABoomer]

I think it’s a 2 or 4 foot difference. I think that and the aux power unit, and the 2-stage pumps are the only real differences.

Is there a specific reason they wanted to go smaller?

 

[ENGINE_4]

Yes, a few. Engine and Ladders have the same issue - length and weight. I cant speak of the Engine weights and if they're different from the 2010 to the 2016's-2021's.
But the length from what I have heard and have seen, is that it is hard to fit trucks down certain streets/communities and turning the trucks is even worse. That is why CFD is moving towards a smaller fleet.
I don't know about the new Ladders, but the Engines are smaller and a lot easier to use on smaller streets, etc. The 2011 Quints are super heavy and overweight and honestly aren't getting used much as Quints. That's one of the reasons why CFD is going to dry Aerials - no pump, water, hose so trucks are lighter and probably (depending on the design) shorter trucks

 

[RP201]

Manoeuvrability, so many municipal FDs across North America are going with smaller engines. Boston is an excellent example, all of there ladders are single axle with 100 ft reach.

Quints are an interesting concept, but are heavy, slow and really aren’t great at anything. Limited storage, however can’t really operate effectively as an engine because of reduced hose inventory.

CFD has great short engines that pack a punch! They carry lots of gear, can preform many tasks. The fact that we refer to Ladders or Aerials as being “dry” demonstrates how Quints have become common place, and Ladders no longer the norm. Montreal does not have a single Quint in their fleet. I believe 70% of there stations have a Ladder.

Calgary has a great opportunity to return to real truck work. Access, forced entry, ventilation, search & rescue, extrication, technical rescue and of course elevated master streams. They will take over the “Rescue “ role. The Tech Rescue companies will then focus of a broader range.

Next we need to convince CFD brass to explore FDNY style squad companies!

 

[JABoomer]

Next we need to convince CFD brass to explore FDNY style squad companies!

Are these like rescue-engines?

 

[255-Jacobs]

Basically. FDNY Squads carry all the equipment to do Ladder tasks, Engine tasks, Rescue tasks and HazMat tasks. You could say it's a multipurpose apparatus.

 

[ENGINE_4]

I would love to see FDNY style Squads come to Calgary, but Calgary does not have the population or call volume to have those types of trucks and ff’s with that level of training 😅

 

[255-Jacobs]

Yeah. The Core ain't no Manhattan. Seeing a Rescue Engine would be pretty nice however. You get the tools of a Rescue and the water and pump of an Engine all in one truck. Put those in the NW and then they don't have to wait for the only Rescue to show up (34)

 

[ENGINE_4]

By 2025 there will be only Tech Rescues to wait for lol

FDNY Squads originally were designed as Hazmat/haztech Engines to supplement Hazmat 1, the Rescue tech aspect came a few years before 9/11. There is a really good YouTube video and podcast about how the Squads were originally organized.

CFD could do something similar with the FDNY squads, with regards to hazmat. I don’t think they need they extra rescue capabilities with all the Ladders having auto-ex and the 2 tech teams.

This would mean the loss of front line hazmat units because they could become second pieces with dedicated Engine companies for hazmat calls…

I think there’s pros and cons to both ideas - FDNY squad style hazmat ops and dedicated hazmat units, but as usual it comes down to money and what’s better for the department

 

[255-Jacobs]

I don't think CFD will ever do away with the HazMat companies but anything could happen. DC4 did tell me that not all rescues will be replaced but most. Though if only the tech rescues are left than rescues might be dropped from fire alarm responses and fill that spot with a ladder or tower company instead.

 

[RP201]

The Rescue pumper... everyone, every department has there own take on a Rescue pump. Some departments put a ram, cutter and a spreader on the Engine and call it a Squad. The brass like anything that does more than put cold stuff on the hot stuff, hence the attraction to Quints. “Look it can pump water and rescue cats in trees, sold!” A former Toronto Chief once wanted every Ladder to be a Quint, and every Engine to be a Rescue Engine, this same Chief wanted to get rid of every Heavy Rescue.

I think the FDNY Squads first appeared in the 1960's when the residents decided it was a good idea to burn down the city of New York. They also had a bunch of other specialized units like the Tactical Control Units, basically extra staffed Ladders. The TCU's and Squad's would go from fire to fire.

Getting back to Calgary, similar units could definitely work in this city. Something that runs as an Engine in there first due to run area, a back up engine (water supply) or the third Engine providing a back up line, or if necessary, forced entry. They should also respond to auto extrications, technical rescues, water rescues and Hazmat calls.

The Engine itself would look different than the current fleet of Engines. Probably longer with a different hose load. Definitely capable of dealing with most fires, and enough high vol to supply a first engine.

The body or coach work would look like a Rescue body with internal ladder storage. If CFD decides to outfit the new Ladder fleet with auto ex tools, I’d expect the Squad to have the same. With every engine carrying a combi tool, Calgary would become leaders in auto ex response.
Then storage for things like water rescues, rope rescue gear and then a second piece, a light Rescue truck that carries Hazmat and Technical Rescue equipment. Fans and heavyweight tools. That’s what distinguishes FDNY Squads from a Rescue Pump. The training would have to be very intense. This sort of program could be catalyst to some huge changes. The Squads could replace one of the Hazmat units, they could run the collapse rigs, (tech rescue supports) freeing up the Tech Rescue crews.

I could see the Squad's replace 46E, 48E, 49E, 50E and 60E. S1 (S3), S2, S12, S14, S22 and additionally say S41 and S42... This would provide second engines to cover off other halls during training or special events.

I know several cities like Winnipeg, Toronto, Mississauga and Vancouver have implemented similar programs to improve the level of service. This would require a mayor that’s pro fire service, and we have that, then a Chief that’s willing or an ambitious Deputy.

Overall the taxpayers and registered voters would benefit and the FD would benefit from the additional capabilities.

Just a few thoughts.

 

[255-Jacobs]

46, 48, 49, and 60 were known as Squads back in the day, lol. But they were just meant to cover other halls.