Cleveland National Forest New Forest Net

[krazybob]

Can't you ever reply without the indignant, indicting sarcasm? This isn't even the original thread I opened. I didn't misread anything. I never saw his reply. Quit making this a miserable place to post.

 

[Teotwaki]

I didn't mistype. 171. 7875 is the R5 Law Enforcement net not just CNF

That's interesting. I am in a good spot in OC where I can hear comms for ANF, CNF and SBNF but I have thought I only ever heard Cleveland units calling Cleveland dispatch on the Law Net repeater frequency. Every so often I drive 4x4 trails in the SBNF and always have their channels in my handheld. I'll also connect my DVR to the radio here at home as there must be a lot of ANF and SBNF chatter I have missed on the Law NET repeaters.

Jim
Orange County, CA

 

[Teotwaki]

Can't you ever reply without the indignant, indicting sarcasm? This isn't even the original thread I opened. I didn't misread anything. I never saw his reply. Quit making this a miserable place to post.

I honestly didn,t see any sarcasm. Not sure what you mean by "original thread I opened".

Jim
Orange County, CA

 

[krazybob]

I honestly didn,t see any sarcasm. Not sure what you mean by "original thread I opened".

Jim
Orange County, CA

That was pertaining to another user after you that no matter what I post or where I posted I've got a shadow that's got to open as yet with something negative. He's now blocked.

Here is the thread I opened. How I ended up in this one is beyond me. Five separate people asking different questions on different aspects of the question that do nothing but make it confusing. When you're on a cell phone using tap talk you cannot scroll back and see what somebody previously typed.

https://forums.radioreference.com/g...as-discussion/379186-forest-service-leos.html

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[kma371]

I'm not sure what you were listening to but he said 12 Tom 6 and I heard nothing at all about a trainee with a Ride Along. A trainee would not have a ride along. Also, they were in the city of Riverside adjacent to the Cleveland. As I recall Cleveland LEO units are 2 Edward. If you were in the San Jac area would be a different story because that's still the San Bernardino National Forest. It wouldn't make sense that a 12 Tom unit would be in the city of Riverside with a trainee in a marked unit making a traffic stop. No, trainees do not go out by themselves for the last 2 months. They are required to pass a one-year probationary. I was just curious. We don't need to beat this to death.

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Though it doesn't make sense to you that trainees don't go out by themselves, it does to some agencies because it happens.

You said you were open to suggestions regarding your comments, apparently you are not.

 

[krazybob]

Your response is personal in nature and does not focus on the question. You could have done what I just did. Picked up the telephone and called San Bernardino and spoke to the investigator's office to learn the trainees do not go out on their own. They are required by federal law to complete one year of probation. A trainee is not considered a ride along. A ride along would be an unsworn individual.

We're done here.

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[Teotwaki]

....SNIP.... Here is the thread I opened. How I ended up in this one is beyond me.....SNIP...

You got here because in your "LEO" thread another member (Markb) gave you a link to this thread where the "TOM" designator was explained as being a trainee. You clicked on the link and came here.

Here you go:

https://forums.radioreference.com/g...onal-forest-new-forest-net-8.html#post3013670

 

[Teotwaki]

. A trainee is not considered a ride along. A ride along would be an unsworn individual.

The Cleveland Edward unit I was face-to-face with called the Tom unit a "ride along" so apparently the phrase has many meanings to many people but to me it is not a big deal. He verified what the "Tom" callsign was so I was happy to obtain that info.

Jim
Orange County, CA

 

[Teotwaki]

I need to get this list up to date, I've been slacking off

CNF call signs heard:

Comms 22, 27, 28, 29 (not specific to Cleveland but I don't know where they are based)
2Charles1
2Edward 4, 6, 7, 10, 11, 12
2King 1 & 5
Patrol 22, 23, 33, 34, 41, 42
Ranger 2
Rec 23, 26, 31
Trails 21
2Tom n
Utility nn

Jim
Orange County, CA

 

[Teotwaki]

So far I have only observed CNF 2-designator call signs using the frequencies even though I can hear many ANF and SBNF repeaters too. I'd love to see some reports of call signs and tones of LE Net use in ANF and SBNF.. Some other members have reported some infrequent usage in those other areas. The LE Repeaters I hear have a distinctive two tone beep after the radio user unkeys. If they key up the analog mode the un-key tone sequence is a High-to-Low set of tones and using P-25 mode selects a Low-to-High sequence at un-key.

Early on in 2016 there were three LE repeaters on the 171.7875/162.9625 pair that I heard CNF LEOs operating on.

Tone 5 146.2 NAC 5B6 (Cuyamaca Peak in the CNF plan)

Tone 4 136.5 NAC 555 (High point (Palomar) in the CNF plan)

Tone 2 123.0 NAC 4CE (Santiago Peak in the CNF plan)

All are sending either 103.5 for analog or NAC 40B for digital on the repeater output which to me matches Cleveland's tone plan and made me think they were specific to CNF LEOs only.

USFS has 16 Common tones with corresponding NACs and each national forest has a tone plan to match their high sites

CTCSS NAC
1 110.9 455
2 123.0 4CE
3 131.8 526
4 136.5 555
5 146.2 5B6
6 156.7 61F
7 167.9 68F
8 103.5 40B
9 100.0 3E8
10 107.2 430
11 114.8 47C
12 127.3 4F9
13 141.3 585
14 151.4 5EA
15 162.2 656
16 192.8 788

San Bernardino Forest Plan

Tone Location Tone
1 Not Assigned 110.9
2 Cajon 123.0
3 Strawberry 131.8
4 Keller 136.5
5 Bertha 156.7 (correct?)
6 Onyx 156.7
7 Santa Rosa 167.9
8 Black 103.5
9 San Sevaine 100.0
10 Not Assigned 107.2
11 Tahquitz 114.8
12 Rodman 127.3
13 Santiago 141.3
14 Pine Cove 151.4

It would be cool to track LE Net usage by unit, forest area and the location of the RadioReference member and try to figure out what peaks the repeaters are on.

Example: I think it was Allend who reported a while back some analog usage of the LE Net that was coming off of Onyx. Allend is in the Palm Springs area and Onyx peak would be Tone 6

 

[Teotwaki]

I've been listening for any LE Net traffic from SBNF but nothing so far. However SB morning checkins included the following assets:

Idaho 699
Sierra 341
Arizona 413, 1102 and one more I missed

 

[Teotwaki]

CNF call signs heard to date:

Comms 22, 27, 28, 29 (not specific to Cleveland - don't know where they are based)
2Charles1
2Edward 4, 6, 7, 10, 11, 12
2King 1 & 5 (canine units)
Patrol 21, 22, 23, 33, 34, 41, 42
Prevention 24
Ranger 2
Rec 23, 25, 26, 31
Trails 21
2Tom n (Trainee)
Utility nn

Jim
Orange County, CA

 

[bb911]

I've been listening for any LE Net traffic from SBNF but nothing so far. However SB morning checkins included the following assets:

Idaho 699
Sierra 341
Arizona 413, 1102 and one more I missed

SQF 347 (I hope 347 is correct, can't be 100% sure) is/was on BDF @ Del Rosa. I spoke with a crew member in a Walmart parking lot in Highland just a few days ago. They, like the others above, are/were here due to wind event. Also, there was/is an engine off the INF on the BDF. They may have been part of a 6 engine TF (not a 5 engine ST), as I heard one referenced to over the air during the fire up by CSUSB.

 

[Teotwaki]

SQF 347 (I hope 347 is correct, can't be 100% sure) is/was on BDF @ Del Rosa. I spoke with a crew member in a Walmart parking lot in Highland just a few days ago. They, like the others above, are/were here due to wind event. Also, there was/is an engine off the INF on the BDF. They may have been part of a 6 engine TF (not a 5 engine ST), as I heard one referenced to over the air during the fire up by CSUSB.

Thanks for the insights! It is really interesting to hear call signs from other forests on the local nets.

Jim
Orange County, CA

 

[1942LA]

The normal day to day San Bernardino NF LE communications are being conducted on the Forest Admin channel. They are not on P25 encryption.

 

[allend]

Thank You. I believe the rest of us were thinking the same thing. USFS has not implemented any of the encryption. I heard there may be talk about it but not sure. Cleveland P25 is in the clear all the time.

 

[krazybob]

Thank You. I believe the rest of us were thinking the same thing. USFS has not implemented any of the encryption. I heard there may be talk about it but not sure. Cleveland P25 is in the clear all the time.

I stopped commenting because some of you like taking potshots at me. But I've been scanning since 1972. I built my first repeater from to HTs. I built Scannerbuff software from the ground up. I turned it into a BBS door. And then I built the internet alert website. I'm not new to monitoring. I'm telling you with absolute certainty that the 12 K units where on p25 encrypted on the frequency I previously posted. It may have been a one-time deal it may have been a one-time deal but don't delude yourself into thinking they don't have the capability. I absolutely know the sound of analog, p25, and encryption added to it.

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[fireinoc]

KrazyBob just stop we've all had enough. Please go back to "Ive stopped commenting". Nobody signs on here to read your rants

 

[krazybob]

Good morning. Yes, it does look like it is going to be a nice day. I hope that it doesn't get too warm. All of the Ski Jim and Ski Janes will be leaving today.

I thought this information might be helpful to others. I'm thinking that it could be one of those moments when the question is asked, "If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it fall, does it make a sound?" With radio being primarily line of sight and more often than not simplex rather than repeated, it would reasonably make sense that a person actually in the SBNF with a very large antenna setup and a rack of radios to go with it might possibly hear something that others not living in the same area didn't hear. Simplex car-to-car communications can be that way. I know from experienced listening that the 12 Edward units heavily patrol the Holcomb Valley area, which is frequently an area in which fires start. Yes, I agree that radios that flash "P25/ENC" are helpful. Who knows. Maybe this was just a one-off thing. At any rate, you have a blessed day as well.

"At the recommendation of the Department of the Interior (DOI) Radio Liaisons, DOI decided to adopt the P25 digital radio standard as the standard for all radio purchases within DOI. DOI has also mandated that all radios/radio systems that carry law enforcement traffic comply with the EIA/TIA-102 standard which include encryption capabilities/technologies.These mandates are outlined in DOI IRM Bulletins 1998-001, 1998-002, and 1998-003.

 

[1942LA]

Good morning. Yes, it does look like it is going to be a nice day. I hope that it doesn't get too warm. All of the Ski Jim and Ski Janes will be leaving today.

I thought this information might be helpful to others. I'm thinking that it could be one of those moments when the question is asked, "If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it fall, does it make a sound?" With radio being primarily line of sight and more often than not simplex rather than repeated, it would reasonably make sense that a person actually in the SBNF with a very large antenna setup and a rack of radios to go with it might possibly hear something that others not living in the same area didn't hear. Simplex car-to-car communications can be that way. I know from experienced listening that the 12 Edward units heavily patrol the Holcomb Valley area, which is frequently an area in which fires start. Yes, I agree that radios that flash "P25/ENC" are helpful. Who knows. Maybe this was just a one-off thing. At any rate, you have a blessed day as well.

"At the recommendation of the Department of the Interior (DOI) Radio Liaisons, DOI decided to adopt the P25 digital radio standard as the standard for all radio purchases within DOI. DOI has also mandated that all radios/radio systems that carry law enforcement traffic comply with the EIA/TIA-102 standard which include encryption capabilities/technologies.These mandates are outlined in DOI IRM Bulletins 1998-001, 1998-002, and 1998-003.

FYI, The Forest Service is part of the USDA, not DOI. BLM and the National Park Service are part of the DOI.

There may be some sort of P25 Region 5 channel. However, as previously stated, the normal day to day SB Forest LE operations are still be conducted on the Forest Admin channel--Analog/In the clear.