Disaster Preparations

bill4long

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Maybe so in a global/nationwide disaster.

Public safety professionals have a different idea what constitutes an emergency compared to the guy who passed the 35 question multiple choice test and the bought the top of the line $18 CCR with the military looking blade antenna.

Having been through a few local disasters, the last thing public safety needs is some whacker 'trying to help'.

Hams have no business on any frequency allocations than those provided in part 97. They aren't going to benefit from accessing anyone else's system. If they want to help, volunteer with the agency and deploy when asked, not when they feel scared because the wind is blowing and Waffle House is closed.

Ham radio operators, GMRS users, MURS users, CB users all have roles they can play with the equipment and authorizations they legally have. There's zero justification to start hacking radios or trying to access trunked radio systems. That's just whacker dreaming, and it needs to be addressed swiftly and forcefully.

I certainly agree.
 

KK4JUG

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Most folks in the west, northwest, upper midwest and New England won't appreciate that.
 

MUTNAV

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Well, if a true SHTF situation occurred, nobody would care about the FCC regs or any other laws, regulations and ordinances. And why should they? That would be a survival situation. Eff the FCC in that situation. And everything else that interferes with survival.
When Puerto Rico was hit with hurricane Maria, they lost power for something like 340 days, and all infrastructure fell apart. They still followed the rules (as far as I know)

Thanks
Joel
 

MUTNAV

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I don't get the references. (gangs and Beofeng) and how they relate to disaster preparedness.

Did we shift ideas without a clutch?

Thanks
Joel
 

Ghostnotes

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I guess I had the wrong perception regarding emergencies and amateur radio, but not discouraging. Reading through this it was clear to me that you cannot deviate from the rules. During my studies, it made that very clear early on. Never means never. My misconception was how involved we as amateur operators are or can be. But I guess that also comes down to Discipline and communication. I would figure there would be a network established by amatures, perhaps a designated person in each club or chapter listening or relaying via simplex

I know this is probably an ignorant question, but how is that gap bridged?
Meaning if during a disaster/emergency situation and regular communications are down, and I observe something that warrants an emergency response, how is that relayed?
 

mmckenna

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I know this is probably an ignorant question, but how is that gap bridged?
Meaning if during a disaster/emergency situation and regular communications are down, and I observe something that warrants an emergency response, how is that relayed?

It's bridged by:
Random hobbyist
Must be listening to the radio
Must be on the same frequency as you.
Must be in range to hear you.
Must have a decent enough setup to hear you.
Must be willing to help.
Must understand that passing on the information accurately to a professional responder that can help you is important and it isn't a place to play games.

Those are a lot of "if's". Too many for me to personally rely on in an emergency.

There's no guarantee that any hobbyist is going to be sitting in front of the radio at any given moment.
There's no guarantee that any hobbyist is going to be listening at any given moment.
There's no guarantee that any hobbyist is going to be on the same frequency as you.
There's no guarantee that any hobbyist is going to be in range of you.
There's no guarantee that any hobbyist is going to have a decent enough station to hear you.
There's no guarantee that any hobbyist is going to want to help you.
There's no guarantee that any hobbyist is going to know what to do with the information you give them.
There's no guarantee that any hobbyist isn't dealing with their own issues in a disaster/emergency/SHTF/Zombie Apocalypse.

Hobbyists are not professional first responders. They are "random dude with a radio".

There are ways to change the equations above to improve your chances of reaching another human, but then you are usually getting beyond VHF/UHF amateur radio type stuff. HF can give you much more range, but you need a big antenna on your car, and the atmosphere has to be smiling upon you at that moment. Even then, reaching someone in another county, state or country is going to have challenges relaying your needs to suitable first responders in your immediate area.

Amateur radio is -not- an emergency radio service. There are those that will try to convince you that getting your ham ticket guarantees that you'll be able to talk to someone at any time of the day or night and from anywhere on the globe, and get emergency assistance quickly. That's just pure marketing BS to get people to buy radios. It doesn't work out that way, at least not reliably. It's a hell of a thing to be in a real life or death emergency and be relying on someone that may have passed a 35 question multiple choice test and has an $18 Chinese radio.

Ham radio is a fun hobby to talk to other like minded individuals. In some circumstances, it can put you in touch with someone else that may be able to get you help in an emergency.

But would you really want to rely on a 911 dispatcher that studied for a few hours a night until they could pass a multiple choice test? Would you want to rely on a 911 dispatcher that was using cobbled together communications gear they bought at a flea market that may or may not work reliably?

If it's a true emergency that you are concerned about, then get the right tools to reach a professional when you need them. Your life, the life of a family member, or that of a friend, relative or neighbor may depend on it.
Cell phones work pretty reliably in most cases. Hams love to talk about the fragility of telecommunications infrastructure that wasn't built by some random guy in his basement. The truth is, modern telecommunications networks can be pretty reliable. Plus, they'll get you in touch with a highly trained professional that will get help to you, even if you don't know where you are. All you gotta do is dial those 3 numbers and hit "send". So easy a 5 year old can be trained to do it.

If reliability or coverage is a concern, get something like a Garmin InReach mini and pay the $12/mo for the service. It'll work anywhere on the globe and put you in direct contact with a professional that will be there when you need them.

If you want a fun hobby where you can mess around with radios, talk to others that share similar interests, and practice the art of radio, then amateur radio is a great hobby.

But don't confuse it with 911.
 

vagrant

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I've enjoyed camping for decades. Somewhere along the way someone coined the word prepping. What is something I enjoy almost monthly, others are only preparing to do. I know there are other members here that enjoy camping as well.

I encourage others to go camping for two weeks, a week, or even several days. You might enjoy it as well as identify a weakness and strength. I take a radio for pleasure, not as a necessity. Within the last decade I now take a Garmin device with an inReach plan as things can happen. Still, that did not make a difference in the previous decades I did not have it, or a transceiver. Also, Internet/cellular is not a thing where I go camping. Well, mobile Starlink is now a thing, but I'm definitely having fun without it.

As to observing something that warrants emergency response, if you are able to camp for a week on a random piece of dirt, that is a question you would not need answered.
 
Last edited:

Ghostnotes

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Aug 16, 2024
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Houston,Texas
It's bridged by:
Random hobbyist
Must be listening to the radio
Must be on the same frequency as you.
Must be in range to hear you.
Must have a decent enough setup to hear you.
Must be willing to help.
Must understand that passing on the information accurately to a professional responder that can help you is important and it isn't a place to play games.

Those are a lot of "if's". Too many for me to personally rely on in an emergency.

There's no guarantee that any hobbyist is going to be sitting in front of the radio at any given moment.
There's no guarantee that any hobbyist is going to be listening at any given moment.
There's no guarantee that any hobbyist is going to be on the same frequency as you.
There's no guarantee that any hobbyist is going to be in range of you.
There's no guarantee that any hobbyist is going to have a decent enough station to hear you.
There's no guarantee that any hobbyist is going to want to help you.
There's no guarantee that any hobbyist is going to know what to do with the information you give them.
There's no guarantee that any hobbyist isn't dealing with their own issues in a disaster/emergency/SHTF/Zombie Apocalypse.

Hobbyists are not professional first responders. They are "random dude with a radio".

There are ways to change the equations above to improve your chances of reaching another human, but then you are usually getting beyond VHF/UHF amateur radio type stuff. HF can give you much more range, but you need a big antenna on your car, and the atmosphere has to be smiling upon you at that moment. Even then, reaching someone in another county, state or country is going to have challenges relaying your needs to suitable first responders in your immediate area.

Amateur radio is -not- an emergency radio service. There are those that will try to convince you that getting your ham ticket guarantees that you'll be able to talk to someone at any time of the day or night and from anywhere on the globe, and get emergency assistance quickly. That's just pure marketing BS to get people to buy radios. It doesn't work out that way, at least not reliably. It's a hell of a thing to be in a real life or death emergency and be relying on someone that may have passed a 35 question multiple choice test and has an $18 Chinese radio.

Ham radio is a fun hobby to talk to other like minded individuals. In some circumstances, it can put you in touch with someone else that may be able to get you help in an emergency.

But would you really want to rely on a 911 dispatcher that studied for a few hours a night until they could pass a multiple choice test? Would you want to rely on a 911 dispatcher that was using cobbled together communications gear they bought at a flea market that may or may not work reliably?

If it's a true emergency that you are concerned about, then get the right tools to reach a professional when you need them. Your life, the life of a family member, or that of a friend, relative or neighbor may depend on it.
Cell phones work pretty reliably in most cases. Hams love to talk about the fragility of telecommunications infrastructure that wasn't built by some random guy in his basement. The truth is, modern telecommunications networks can be pretty reliable. Plus, they'll get you in touch with a highly trained professional that will get help to you, even if you don't know where you are. All you gotta do is dial those 3 numbers and hit "send". So easy a 5 year old can be trained to do it.

If reliability or coverage is a concern, get something like a Garmin InReach mini and pay the $12/mo for the service. It'll work anywhere on the globe and put you in direct contact with a professional that will be there when you need them.

If you want a fun hobby where you can mess around with radios, talk to others that share similar interests, and practice the art of radio, then amateur radio is a great hobby.

But don't confuse it with 911.
So no CH9
This totally discouraged me from being a ham.....I'm selling my equipment.

Just kidding.....
I understand the physical limitations of radio transmission, it was the human factor I was curious about.

There was a few days here in my area of Houston where cell service was completely out during Beryl.Along with the internet. Usually one or the other is available. I have solar and during an outage I just call over wifi Not sure if they forgot to refuel the backup generators in the area.
 

buddrousa

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Years ago in the 1970s local areas had CB Clubs in my area that tried to be like the old hams were and monitor CB Radio with groups that went by the name REACT but in todays world people do not have time for anybody but themselves.
 

mmckenna

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So no CH9

So the nice thing about Channel 9 was that it was a single common frequency that every CB'er had access to.
Not different bands. Not different emissions. One frequency, AM, everyone had it.

On the ham radio side, you may have many repeaters around you, those may or may not have power, you may or may not be in range, and someone may or may not be listening.

Some hams will tell you to just use 146.520MHz FM, which is a good idea, but again, limited range, not always someone listening because their radio is off doing something else...

This totally discouraged me from being a ham.....I'm selling my equipment.

Just kidding.....
I understand the physical limitations of radio transmission, it was the human factor I was curious about.

It's almost always the human factor. And totally uncontrollable when dealing with volunteers and/or hobbyists. That's where relying on a system and professionals that are paid to be there is important.

There was a few days here in my area of Houston where cell service was completely out during Beryl.Along with the internet. Usually one or the other is available. I have solar and during an outage I just call over wifi Not sure if they forgot to refuel the backup generators in the area.

Yeah, it happens.
One benefit is that not all cell carriers are on the same towers, generators, infrastructure, and you phone should allow 911 calls through other carriers. You may not be able to call family, but you might get a call through to 911.
Also, with the newer phones that have satellite capability, simply texting 911 might get you through to help, even when the rest of the infrastructure is down.
 

sloop

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Lewisville, NC
mmckenna, best one sentence I have read in a long time. " It's a hell of a thing to be in a real life or death emergency and be relying on someone that may have passed a 35 question multiple choice test and has an $18 Chinese radio." How true but unfortunately trying to get that through to some is impossible not only about the help but especially the radio. I have to admit it that a few years ago my VFD decided to get UV5's for all those working traffic. I tried to convince them not too....After one traffic accident with fire and rain, all of the radios quit working! It left several depending on communications in a bad spot. Lesson learned, fortunately no one was hurt only inconvenienced.
 

mmckenna

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mmckenna, best one sentence I have read in a long time. " It's a hell of a thing to be in a real life or death emergency and be relying on someone that may have passed a 35 question multiple choice test and has an $18 Chinese radio." How true but unfortunately trying to get that through to some is impossible not only about the help but especially the radio.

Early on when I got my ham ticket, I tried using amateur radio to report a few accidents, suspected drunk drivers, etc. This was before cellular phones.

Never had much luck, and repeaters were much busier back then.

Now, I support a 911 PSAP, a PD and a lot of public works type users on a couple of systems. There's a huge difference between what a hobbyist can do and what professionals can do.

In an emergency, calling 911 is the absolute best way to get help in an emergency. If 911 isn't available, Garmin InReach (which I've actually used in a non-life threatening situation). Ham radio is one of the options I have, but it would be one of the last things I'd try, and I'd never rely on it in an emergency.

I have to admit it that a few years ago my VFD decided to get UV5's for all those working traffic. I tried to convince them not too....After one traffic accident with fire and rain, all of the radios quit working! It left several depending on communications in a bad spot. Lesson learned, fortunately no one was hurt only inconvenienced.

Budgets are tight and they're always looking for cheap solutions. Not sure why communications is where they choose to do that. It rarely works out.
 

DeeEx

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Years ago in the 1970s local areas had CB Clubs in my area that tried to be like the old hams were and monitor CB Radio with groups that went by the name REACT but in todays world people do not have time for anybody but themselves.

REACT is still around; there’s a very bizarre and unprofessional website for a team in the Carolinas that comes up here and there on this forum. The most memorable things were photos of a man dressed in a Star Trek costume that was far too small and grammar that was so poor it made my eyes hurt trying to read it. Good times for someone I suppose.
 

ladn

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Early on when I got my ham ticket, I tried using amateur radio to report a few accidents, suspected drunk drivers, etc. This was before cellular phones.
The Los Angeles County Sheriff's Disaster Communications Service (DCS), K6CPT, used to have an operator in the communications building. His name was Jerry Kunz, W6BVG and he was a paid staff member. Jerry was legally blind, but you'd never know that from his professional operating style. This was 30+ years ago before cell phones were the norm.

Jerry worked the morning drive time shift glibly handling all manner of radio traffic thru the K6CPT repeater. His console had ring down capabilities direct to Sheriff's dispatch.

Attached is a story on Jerry from July, 1959, Popular Electronics. Jerry went sk in 2000.
 

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