DMR - Wildcard Talkgroup

[jeffhochberg]

Hello,

I've seen mention of people using Talkgroup 167776415 (Hex: FFFCDF) as a "wildcard" talkgroup in their G5s.

I've been trying to get this working and haven't had any luck. The only way I can get DMR working at all is to specify the discrete talkgroups that I'm interested in monitoring.

I've tried setting the Receiving Mode to Monitor Mode, Radio Compatible Mode, and Selective Call. Each time, I created 2 knob positions in a zone - one slot for Timeslot 1 and one for Timeslot 2.

One additional question - which Receiving Mode is preferred for monitoring DMR? Monitor Mode, Radio Compatible, or Selective Call? I'm still trying to get my head wrapped around the differences. The online help doesn't explain it very well (IMHO).

This is what I ended up settling on - if anyone has any recommendations, I'm all ears!

Zone 1 - Knob 1
Radio Compatible Mode
Conventional Frequency: 434.50000 (12.5 kHz)
Protocol Type: DMR
Protocol Alias: Slot 1
DMR Color Code: 3
Repeater Mode (Digital): Checked
Talkgroups: discrete list of TGIDs

Zone 1 - Knob 2
Radio Compatible Mode
Conventional Frequency: 434.50000 (12.5 kHz)
Protocol Type: DMR
Protocol Alias: Slot 1
DMR Color Code: 3
Repeater Mode (Digital): Checked
Talkgroups: discrete list of TGIDs

Thanks in advance!

Best Regards,

-JeffH

 

[jeffhochberg]

I did a little bit of research and, as I suspected, the DMR "wildcard TG" is a myth!

Talkgroup 167776415 (Hex: FFFCDF) is a reserved TG in the DMR world called "All Call" which is intended to call every station on a given channel/trunked system. It's a one-way conversation usually reserved for supervisors and radio managers.

It CANNOT be used on Unication pagers as a workaround for scanning every known talkgroup.

If you're trying to get this to work - stop! There are other solutions out there that will allow you to accomplish this as well as scan DMR systems in general MUCH faster than the Unication can.

I also own a Uniden SDS100 and BCD436HP with the DMR license applied to each of them. They can scan for any talkgroup without specifying the timeslot or even the color code. And when they are programmed to scan multiple talkgroups or trunked systems, they scan MUCH faster than the G5 does.

I'm very pleased with the performance of the G5 when it comes to P25 and even conventional analog, but I regret spending the additional money to get the DMR functionality turned on.

 

[N6ML]

FWIW, using FFFCDF worked for me for monitoring the local ham DMR repeater (which is the only thing in my area to even try to monitor). I tried it as a complete guess, since it was the highest possible value for the DMR TGID, and it appeared to work. I never found any documentation supporting it (or offering an alternative).

 

[jeffhochberg]

I am the admin for the W4DOC DMR repeater in Atlanta, GA. I installed it and have been running it for the better part of the past year and a half. It’s connected to a c-Bridge that’s operated by the guy that wrote the Amateur Radio Guide to DMR.

In DMR, the combination of Color Code and TGID is what opens the squelch on a radio. The Timeslot is part of the TDMA operation that allows the repeater to transmit 2 talkgroups simultaneously across 12.5 KHz of bandwidth (6.25 KHz x 2 = 12.5).


Most DMR radios can only listen to the TGs for which they’re programmed. There are a few radios on the market that offer a “promiscuous” mode whereby they do not care about the color code or TGID and will open the squelch on any so long as the frequency and Timeslot matches. Some will open irrespective of which Timeslot is used as well.

Given the Unication is a commercial unit, my knowledge of how the radios work tells me that this wildcard behavior wouldn’t work in the same promiscuous mode manner.

I’d love to see your codeplug configuration and any video of the radio in operation so I can test it out in my area as there are several DMR repeaters in the area. I think you may just be running into a fluke situation that’s a byproduct of how the repeater owner has their repeater configured.

 

[N6ML]

I am the admin for the W4DOC DMR repeater in Atlanta, GA. I installed it and have been running it for the better part of the past year and a half. It’s connected to a c-Bridge that’s operated by the guy that wrote the Amateur Radio Guide to DMR.

In DMR, the combination of Color Code and TGID is what opens the squelch on a radio. The Timeslot is part of the TDMA operation that allows the repeater to transmit 2 talkgroups simultaneously across 12.5 KHz of bandwidth (6.25 KHz x 2 = 12.5).


Most DMR radios can only listen to the TGs for which they’re programmed. There are a few radios on the market that offer a “promiscuous” mode whereby they do not care about the color code or TGID and will open the squelch on any so long as the frequency and Timeslot matches. Some will open irrespective of which Timeslot is used as well.

Given the Unication is a commercial unit, my knowledge of how the radios work tells me that this wildcard behavior wouldn’t work in the same promiscuous mode manner.

Not to question your superior knowledge and experience, but unless you've consulted with the Unication firmware developers, or found their source code somewhere, you can only guess like the rest of us as to what they've implemented.

They *do* have a wildcard for P25 talkgroups, so it's not unreasonable to guess that they might have used the same approach for DMR, whether or not it's a sensible thing do with that particular special ID.

I’d love to see your codeplug configuration and any video of the radio in operation so I can test it out in my area as there are several DMR repeaters in the area. I think you may just be running into a fluke situation that’s a byproduct of how the repeater owner has their repeater configured.

Here's a rough video (sorry about the poor quality). Some of the audio is choppy. I'm not sure if that's a Unication issue, or their problem. The profile used for this is attached.

 

[Jordan_yeh]

Well, we will plan to improve DMR decode feature to support all of requirements from your guys , Steve will collect all of requirements and plan to provide feature in near future

 

[IAmSixNine]

Thank you for listening to us and please pass along thanks to the other team members as well.

 

[mharris]

Well, we will plan to improve DMR decode feature to support all of requirements from your guys , Steve will collect all of requirements and plan to provide feature in near future

Thank you, Jordan! This is the type of customer service that will create huge business. We appreciate you listening and responding.

 

[IAmSixNine]

Thats gonna be costly.
DMR Tier 3 like Capacity plus and connect plus are proprietary to Motorola and im sure if done properly will require a license fee. But i hope it happens. Theres a UHF Capacity Plus system i would love to monitor with a G5.

 

[Jordan_yeh]

I am the admin for the W4DOC DMR repeater in Atlanta, GA. I installed it and have been running it for the better part of the past year and a half. It’s connected to a c-Bridge that’s operated by the guy that wrote the Amateur Radio Guide to DMR.

In DMR, the combination of Color Code and TGID is what opens the squelch on a radio. The Timeslot is part of the TDMA operation that allows the repeater to transmit 2 talkgroups simultaneously across 12.5 KHz of bandwidth (6.25 KHz x 2 = 12.5).


Most DMR radios can only listen to the TGs for which they’re programmed. There are a few radios on the market that offer a “promiscuous” mode whereby they do not care about the color code or TGID and will open the squelch on any so long as the frequency and Timeslot matches. Some will open irrespective of which Timeslot is used as well.

Given the Unication is a commercial unit, my knowledge of how the radios work tells me that this wildcard behavior wouldn’t work in the same promiscuous mode manner.

I’d love to see your codeplug configuration and any video of the radio in operation so I can test it out in my area as there are several DMR repeaters in the area. I think you may just be running into a fluke situation that’s a byproduct of how the repeater owner has their repeater configured.

I certainly will take a look and reminds on my list , shall easy to implement , we do have good feature on U3 radio , it call single channel repeater , you May interesting this feature most use scenarios on tactical field extension communications coverage application

 

[KevinC]

Thats gonna be costly.
DMR Tier 3 like Capacity plus and connect plus are proprietary to Motorola and im sure if done properly will require a license fee. But i hope it happens. Theres a UHF Capacity Plus system i would love to monitor with a G5.

Cap+ and Con+ are not Tier 3, CapMax is.

 

[IAmSixNine]

DMR Tier 2 is conventional only, Tier 3 is trunking. So how is Cap+ and Con+ not tier 3?
At least thats how i understand it in the USA. We have no Tier 1 here, and Tier 2 is conventional. Tier 3 is DMR with trunking capabilities.
But hey i could be wrong.

 

[KevinC]

DMR Tier 2 is conventional only, Tier 3 is trunking. So how is Cap+ and Con+ not tier 3?
At least thats how i understand it in the USA. We have no Tier 1 here, and Tier 2 is conventional. Tier 3 is DMR with trunking capabilities.
But hey i could be wrong.

Because neither follow the ETSI standard for Tier 3 trunking. While they may be trunking they are not Tier 3 compliant.

 

[IAmSixNine]

I was not basing my comment on ETSI standards, just a generalization that T2 is conventional and T3 is trunking.. but its not related to the topic so we can both move on from it. You have provided your info so its all good.

 

[mikewazowski]

I was not basing my comment on ETSI standards, just a generalization that T2 is conventional and T3 is trunking.. but its not related to the topic so we can both move on from it. You have provided your info so its all good.

Yes, Tier 2 is conventional but Tier 3 refers to ETSI trunking which Cap+ and Con+ are not.

If you're going to use terms like Tier 2 and Tier 3, you're comments are based on ETSI trunking.

 

[IAmSixNine]

I have not read the standard so i guess ill keep quite on all things DMR going forward.
So what i learned is DMR T2 is conventional, T3 is Cap Max. and Cap+ and Con+ are non complaint DMR crap.. got it.