Downtown NYC antenna help!

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pstephen2

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So I am new to the hobby, having just invested in a beautiful 996P2, I have it programmed with all the available frequencies and have been getting okay results. Local police (NYPD) comes in clear as a bell, as do the MTA bus operators and a few other services. Other than that, it's been pretty hit-or-miss, with the FDNY/EMS being a noticeable blind spot that comes in rather fuzzy or as pure static. Pretty suspiciously absent, given the current COVID-19 crisis gripping the city. So far I have just been using the stock antenna that came with the scanner, indoors at my desk.

I should add that I am probably in the worst possible spot for reception, my apartment is on the ground floor, right in Manhattan, surrounded by rather tall buildings, and the walls here are made of thick sheetrock. I do have access to a backyard area, which is still surrounded by buildings, but I can at least mount an antenna perhaps 14 feet up, on top of the garden wall; surely this is better than the indoor stock setup.

I went ahead and bought a starter discone antenna and a 100 ft RG-8X cable, along with the requisite UHF-BNF connector for the back of the scanner. I am sure there will be some attenuation on a 100 ft line, so maybe I will switch to a 75 or 50 foot, if that proves long enough.

I recently came of with the idea of going to the roof of my building (its a 5 floor walkup) and mounting the antenna up there (there's even a nice tall pole already there, likely from some long-gone TV antenna), then simply running the cable over the edge of the roof and down the back of the building and into my apartment, where it can connect to my scanner. It won't stand out too much as there are a lot of internet/tv cables running along the back of the building. In order to pull this off, however, I would probably need at least 200 ft of cable. I could accomplish this by connecting two 100ft cables together using a female-female UHF connector. I could also invest in a single 200 foot higher quality cable, but this would cost as much as the scanner itself, and I'm hoping to avoid that for now.

My question is this: would this insane cable caper even be worth it, given the levels of attenuation? I have been browsing the forums and I see some comments that signal loss is rather negligible for hobby scanning purposes, while other doomsayers say that attenuation on long-distance cable runs can render rooftop antennas worse than using a stock indoor antenna. Would I be better off sticking to the more conservative plan of putting the antenna in the backyard, slightly elevated but still surrounded by buildings; or should I mount it on my roof, where it would have a pretty clear view on three of four sides? As a hobbyist, what would I be missing out on at those very high frequency ranges? I am interested in listening to anything and everything, but so far NYC is suspiciously quiet.

Thank you for any suggestions, I promise to post pictures if I do go with the roof setup (assuming my building super doesn't confiscate it!)
 

chief21

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There are lots of potential issues here. I'm not familiar with NYC scanning but I see by the listings that FDNY uses UHF conventional channels, as well as certain talkgroups on an 800 MHz trunked system and certain talkgroups on a UHF trunked system. If these trunked radio systems are the ones that you're having trouble hearing, and if those systems are utilizing simulcast, your problem could actually be too much signal rather than not enough. As a simple test, disconnect your normal antenna and temporarily connect a minimal antenna (a paper clip, perhaps), just to see if the EMS signals improve.

If simulcast is not the cause of your poor reception, I would agree that 200' of coax (especially RG8x) could be too much, as the losses at UHF could be extreme... even for receive. You can look up the respective loss factors for different types of coax cables. Losses are usually expressed in decibels (dB) per 100'. Keep in mind that every 3 dB of loss effectively represents a halving of the signal.

As you mentioned, larger, better-quality coax could be one solution (check the loss numbers). Another solution to a long run of coax would be to use a mast-mounted signal preamp. Mounting the amplifier at (or near) the antenna is much more effective than using a signal amplifier at the scanner, after the signal has already been degraded. If you're not familiar with some of these subjects, do some reading before making your decision.
 

N4DJC

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That's a lot of work and may not solve your reception issues. 100 to 200 feet of coax is a lot of loss, pre-amp or not. I hear several simulcast systems on my SDS200 that I was not hearing on my 436, so that could be an issue.

Getting the antenna outside and higher is always better. Try the NY forum for help on specific systems if you haven't yet.
 

a417

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Have you taken the 996P2 up to the roof yet, as proof of concept?
 

Danny37

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Have you taken the 996P2 up to the roof yet, as proof of concept?

I agree, take your scanner up to the roof and see if you notice a difference. I also live in NYC (Queens) I'm not allowed to have an antenna on the roof but i have a UHF magnet mount antenna on my window ac unit and the difference is day and night. I can pick nearly everything from northern jersey to Westchester even Suffolk county.
 

a417

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Ask him if you can put up a satellite TV/Over the air antenna..lets see if he knows the law or is just being a prick.

do you have a balcony or an area of exclusive use for yourself?
 

Danny37

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Ask him if you can put up a satellite TV/Over the air antenna..lets see if he knows the law or is just being a prick.

do you have a balcony or an area of exclusive use for yourself?

He is definitely a prick but I pay way below market value in rent so it’s not worth it for me to get on his bad side for something I don’t really need. The setup I have works for me right now.

I don’t have a balcony but I do have a backyard, I’ve been debating throwing an antenna on top of a tree here.
 

pstephen2

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Have you taken the 996P2 up to the roof yet, as proof of concept?

Not yet, the big dilemma there is that it is not a handheld unit, it's a desktop type unit and I don't have access to AC power up on the roof. I think I will invest in a 50 foot R-400 cable and try the backyard fence option. Seems like it would solve a lot of the issues without all the attenuation headaches. I'll just have to keep saving money till I have a spare $20 million so I can move into one of those ultra tall stick buildings on Central Park. THEN I will have the best reception!:ROFLMAO:
 

a417

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996p2 runs off a (basically standard) 13.8v DC (about 1 amp) wall wart power supply. If you can get up there with a car or motorcycle battery, one of those car booster packs, a smallish sealed lead acid battery (from a UPS backup or emergency light) or even 8 or 9 AAs taped together in series with wires taped on the end (positive & negative appropriate) you can run it long enough to get your proof of concept attempt.
You do not have to run it off the wall wart.
 

WB9YBM

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Back in the day of analog television companies (like Radio Shack) used to sell pre-amps to enhance television reception. These also worked quite well for scanners and would make up for line losses (if you can install it at the antenna end of the coax would be best).
 
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