EMP immunity

[krokus]

... I would have loved to ask my grandfather if they received the 'Go Code' what they would have done- though it would have been very inappropriate of some one like me to ask.

A movie was made with that question as a central theme. "By Dawn's Early Light" features a B-52 crew battling with their orders to bomb Russia.

 

[MUTNAV]

I would hope that people in those positions have thought about the situation and resolved it WELL before the possibility receiving a "go-code", I'd be surprised if the people in that position aren't screened and counseled about the situation.

 

[trentbob]

A movie was made with that question as a central theme. "By Dawn's Early Light" features a B-52 crew battling with their orders to bomb Russia.

And it didn't help that the pilot and the co-pilot had just gotten out of the sack and I don't mean SAC, they were a couple... I think he was a major and she was a captain.

 

[trentbob]

A movie was made with that question as a central theme. "By Dawn's Early Light" features a B-52 crew battling with their orders to bomb Russia.

The best movie to recommend to this particular crowd if you all don't already know it is a movie called fail safe from the early 60s, Henry Fonda and a very young Larry Hagman play the president and his Russian interpreter regarding a bomber that mistakenly got sent to Russia.

The CO of the bomber did what he was supposed to do and wouldn't listen to anybody so President ordered SAC to cooperate with the Russians in every way possible to shoot it down. One of the only serious movie roles that comedian Dom DeLuise played was a master sergeant who was ordered to give the Russians info to override countermeasures so as to help in an attempt to shoot the bomber down. Won't say anything else for those who haven't seen it but...

Great movie, loved the part of Brigadier General Black who was a personal friend of the president who he called Blackie. If you've never seen the movie, watch it, I think there was a remake that I wouldn't waste my time on.

 

[MUTNAV]

Just for info... Many people here probably know about this, but it might be helpful for some.

The rules of thumb for antenna height and coverage don't work for (roughly) spherical surfaces like the earth. The actual math way of figuring EMP coverage with height is

Rt=Re*cos^-1*((Re / (Re *HOB))
Where
Rt=Tangent Range
Re=Radius of the Earth (I use 6370)
HOB = Height of burst in kilometers

(Everything is in kilometers)

Its important to not use the rules of thumb, when figuring out large heights. Otherwise a blast occurring on the moon would be line of sight of the entire earths surface, when obviously it would only see 1/2 of the earth.

I'm putting this out there because at this point not that many countries can put a warhead up 500Km, but 50 Km is doable (from a ship launched missile off of the east or west coasts, and using the formula, you can scale the area of EMP coverage for various heights.

(I hope the math is right, its what I've been using in my spreadsheet of super useful stuff).

Thanks
Joel

 

[n5ims]

There's also the much more campy film "War Games" that starts out with a simulation (but the participants didn't know it wasn't real) of folks in a nuclear missile silo that were given launch orders with the correct launch codes but one soldier simply wouldn't turn his launch key, even after being threatened with being shot. This was the reason that they automated the process that Ferris Buehler managed to break in and control the process and extended the movie by about 75 more minutes.

 

[iMONITOR]

There's also the much more campy film "War Games" that starts out with a simulation (but the participants didn't know it wasn't real) of folks in a nuclear missile silo that were given launch orders with the correct launch codes but one soldier simply wouldn't turn his launch key, even after being threatened with being shot. This was the reason that they automated the process that Ferris Buehler managed to break in and control the process and extended the movie by about 75 more minutes.

 

[MUTNAV]

Movies are a great way of communicating ideas, like storytelling... Surprisingly Star Trek did a lot of this , the most recent for me was an episode of Voyager where 7 of 9 tries to quickly assimilate all of the information of whats been happened on the ship since its beginning, which leads to her developing wild conspiracy theories to try and make sense of all of the information. (Which made me wonder if this is whats happening now, with all of the information available, not even factoring in intentionally misleading information (although I don't know if its mentally or socially valid.)

However, although a lot of these nuke war movies have messages that are worthwhile ("war games" and taking people out of the loop), they may also be misleading, like the idea that any nuclear weapon use in war would end all life as we know it. For example the India - Pakistan option played in war games, wouldn't necessarily lead to further escalation.

Thanks
Joel

 

[trentbob]

There's also the much more campy film "War Games" that starts out with a simulation (but the participants didn't know it wasn't real) of folks in a nuclear missile silo that were given launch orders with the correct launch codes but one soldier simply wouldn't turn his launch key, even after being threatened with being shot. This was the reason that they automated the process that Ferris Buehler managed to break in and control the process and extended the movie by about 75 more minutes.

View attachment 117695 View attachment 117694

Joshua

 

[trentbob]

So getting back on the topic of EMP immunity... an old friend of mine that I speak with on text message everyday who used to live near by me and now lives in Florida post-retirement on the west coast on the Gulf said... I keep seeing calls for USA or NATO to enforce no-fly zones over Ukraine which would mean that we would shoot Russian Jets down if they entered Ukrainian airspace. I even saw an old lady in a babushka calling for a no-fly zone on the news.

She and I both know you would have half a dozen countries simultaneously launching at the same time Russia was and I'm sure the old lady said whatever photographer told her to say.

My friend said said I think I would just jump in my pool. I told her not to do that, I'm not sure but I think electromagnetic pulses probably wouldn't be good if she jumped in the water, what do I know anyway.

I told her I would probably just go to your bar in the house and start drinking heavenly even though I don't drink. I sent her this photo from the movie the day after where folks in Kansas knew they had eight minutes before being hit.


She took some time before getting back but several hours later sent me these photos and told me she went shopping LOL

 

[trentbob]

In all seriousness guys, if we get hit from at least two countries what does EMP immunity mean anyway. What she has... Is EMP immunity and will outlast death from radiation poisoning.

 

[MUTNAV]

Well, the subject of EMP immunity is important because not everything may be a full blown nuclear war, a small country (Korea?) or large terrorist organization could theoretically put a single nuke 30-50 Km over one coast or the other, just to do as much damage as they can.

There are also a lot of non-nuclear disrupters (very inexpensive and quick to build) that shielding might help with, I think it may even be a hobby for some people to design and make devices like that..

Even though wearing a seat-belt wont keep me alive in a 55 Mph head on crash, it would be very helpful in a 15 Mph crash, I take reasonable precautions when I can (protection of my personnel electronics isn't a real priority for me personally, so I don't bother with shielding).

Thanks
Joel

 

[trentbob]

Well, the subject of EMP immunity is important because not everything may be a full blown nuclear war, a small country (Korea?) or large terrorist organization could theoretically put a single nuke 30-50 Km over one coast or the other, just to do as much damage as they can.

There are also a lot of non-nuclear disrupters (very inexpensive and quick to build) that shielding might help with, I think it may even be a hobby for some people to design and make devices like that..

Even though wearing a seat-belt wont keep me alive in a 55 Mph head on crash, it would be very helpful in a 15 Mph crash, I take reasonable precautions when I can (protection of my personnel electronics isn't a real priority for me personally, so I don't bother with shielding).

Thanks
Joel

Yep, I always wear a seatbelt, and you're right, a lot of missing nukes are floating around available to Rogue Nations. Dirty bombs could even be used used by domestic terrorists during a defund police race riot but I don't think Vlad is going to be getting involved with that lol.

 

[MUTNAV]

This addresses the failed state / terrorist idea also.
Good information here (the file is too big to upload).

Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Weapons - The Black Vault

Background The term electromagnetic pulse (sometimes abbreviated EMP) is a burst of electromagnetic radiation that results from an explosion (usually from the detonation of a nuclear weapon) and/or a suddenly fluctuating magnetic field. The resulting rapidly changing electric fields or magnetic...

www.theblackvault.com

Thanks
Joel

 

[krokus]

I would hope that people in those positions have thought about the situation and resolved it WELL before the possibility receiving a "go-code", I'd be surprised if the people in that position aren't screened and counseled about the situation.

Yes, there are/were programs in place for that.

 

[wa88it]

sorry in the event of a high altitude nuclear event, worrying about your vehicle's operation should be the last of your worries cuz you won't have gas to motor on per se as the local/national level petrol system will be inoperative; your ability to travel the 'uncluttered' by-ways, bridges, overpasses, etc., is an other factor!

finally, how much money are you going to spend to assure your beater/clunker is operational as well as stored in a faraday container?

hopefully you can find Trigger, or Champion, or Buttercup, or Diablo or Loco to ride into the sunset...

humm'n 'Happy Trails' as i transverse the WWW...

 

[MUTNAV]

Although I think I understand your sentiment.
To consider an EMP event and say exactly what will or will not happen
( to me ) is the same as saying
"In the event of a war, such and such will happen, based on our knowledge of a weapons effects".

The world is far too complicated for that. How effects will play out are dependent on lots of factors, many of which aren't even known at this point. Like a lower altitude event over the East coast when the entire coast is under heavy cloud cover, or the (terrible ) assumption that older equipment will work better than newer items. (like the AN/PRC-77 working after an EMP test, but not the nearly identical AN/PRC-25 (the AN/PRC-25 used a tube final vs. the -77 transistors).

Similar assumptions about how the actual use of weapons in war, and their effects were made about tanks, battleships, and guns on aircraft.

An even less comfortable statement than what you made, but that supports the gist of what you are saying would be along the lines of

"We really have no idea what will happen, there are the known effects, but no one knows what would actually happen."

Thanks
Joel

 

[dlwtrunked]

...

And this real neat book- (its everything you wanted to know about the 'devices' but didn't know where to look...available on Amazon)

Reflections of a Nuclear Weaponeer
by Frank H. Shelton


Sweet Dreams, Guys !!


Lauri

I do not think most of us can afford it-not the price.

Reflections of a Nuclear Weaponeer: Shelton, Frank H.: 9781881816027: Amazon.com: Books

Reflections of a Nuclear Weaponeer [Shelton, Frank H.] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Reflections of a Nuclear Weaponeer

www.amazon.com

 

[wa88it]

Although I think I understand your sentiment.
To consider an EMP event and say exactly what will or will not happen
( to me ) is the same as saying
"In the event of a war, such and such will happen, based on our knowledge of a weapons effects".

The world is far too complicated for that. How effects will play out are dependent on lots of factors, many of which aren't even known at this point. Like a lower altitude event over the East coast when the entire coast is under heavy cloud cover, or the (terrible ) assumption that older equipment will work better than newer items. (like the AN/PRC-77 working after an EMP test, but not the nearly identical AN/PRC-25 (the AN/PRC-25 used a tube final vs. the -77 transistors).

Similar assumptions about how the actual use of weapons in war, and their effects were made about tanks, battleships, and guns on aircraft.

An even less comfortable statement than what you made, but that supports the gist of what you are saying would be along the lines of

"We really have no idea what will happen, there are the known effects, but no one knows what would actually happen."

Thanks
Joel

Joel, of course communication gear and such is one thing but an emp event is exactly why the AN/FQ-7 was put into a four foot thick concrete four story building back in the mid 50s.

the effects of emp bursts are well researched by the greatest minds in the military and scientific fields since before they were used against Japan, therefore your quote line '...no one knows what would actually happen' truly is a misnomer as it is known which is why we engaged in a cold war since 1945!

cheers mate

 

[wa88it]

a much better anti cold war movie to watch is the 1951 version of "the day the earth stood still" not the glitzy remake ~ shudder!

"We have come to visit you in peace, with good will."

"Your choice is simple: Join us and live in peace, or pursue your present course and face obliteration.
We shall be waiting for your answer; the decision rests with you."



"Gort! Klaatu barada nikto!​