Finding unknown frequencies

[W4GED]

How do I go about finding out frequencies that I can not hear? In other words lets say I am at Walmart and I see them on radios but I can not hear them. The videos I have seen talking about DMR say that you need to program them in to hear them but If I can not hear them and can not find them listed anywhere how do I find them?

 

[RaleighGuy]

How do I go about finding out frequencies that I can not hear? In other words lets say I am at Walmart and I see them on radios but I can not hear them. The videos I have seen talking about DMR say that you need to program them in to hear them but If I can not hear them and can not find them listed anywhere how do I find them?

Use a scanner with spectrum search or close call that is able to decode DMR.

 

[nd5y]

What type of scanner or radio are you using? Some of them can't receive digital modes.

Walmart doesn't use DMR in most stores. Many of their stores have switched to radios that operate in the 902-928 MHz band using FHSS and are also capable of wi-fi.

For other stores see these wiki articles.

US-Nationwide Businesses-Retail - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

Stores - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

Some nationwide chain stores have licenses for hand helds anywhere in the US instead of a particular location. Often those are on the frequencies from 467.75-467.925 listed here.

Common Itinerant and Business - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

You can also search RR for FCC licenses in your county or search the FCC ULS for licenses.

 

[W4GED]

I purchased a SDS100 last year and had it programed by one of the scanner places. When I called them and told them I could not hear any of the businesses, RR or those kind of things they said then there was nothing they could do so I returned it. I Now have purchased a SDS150 and am trying to learn and program it on my own. So this is very much a learning curve and I do not have Windows so trying to decide on Parallels or buying a Windows machine and dedicate it to radio only as I build out my shack.

 

[ecps92]

What type of scanner or radio are you using? Some of them can't receive digital modes.

Walmart doesn't use DMR in most stores. Many of their stores have switched to radios that operate in the 902-928 MHz band using FHSS and are also capable of wi-fi.

For other stores see these wiki articles.

US-Nationwide Businesses-Retail - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

Stores - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

Some nationwide chain stores have licenses for hand helds anywhere in the US instead of a particular location. Often those are on the frequencies from 467.75-467.925 listed here.

Common Itinerant and Business - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

You can also search RR for FCC licenses in your county or search the FCC ULS for licenses.

Also it helps to note
Radio Make/Model being used to transmit
What did the antenna look like (800/900, VHF High, UHF)

 

[trap5858]

Check into software like ProScan or BuTel. Using software will make programming easier. Some businesses are listed in the database, otherwise carry the scanner with you when you visit those establishments and use the close capture utility. A windows machine would be helpful.

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

Most Walmarts (at least by me) and many other retailers have switched to frequency hopping spread spectrum radios. FHSS technology intentionally breaks signals across a wide range of frequencies or rapidly hops between channels. Because a scanner lacks the exact synchronization key or hopping pattern, it only picks up the signal as background noise. Other businesses use simplex-only (non-repeated) radios so you need to be in close proximity to said businesses for any hopes of picking them up. Those businesses still using land mobile radios & where FHSS doesn't apply tend to trend towards the DMR side, so be sure and purchase the DMR upgrade key if you haven't done so already to get the most bang for your business monitoring buck.

I purchased a SDS100 last year and had it programed by one of the scanner places. When I called them and told them I could not hear any of the businesses, RR or those kind of things they said then there was nothing they could do

No surprise there...

 

[popnokick]

As noted earlier in the thread, Moto's purpose-built commercial retail solution is the model known as Curve. When it is not using the WiFi network in the building it automatically uses license-free 900 mHz FHSS... and no scanner will hear either transmission -

Curve Two-Way Radio - Motorola Solutions

Curve Two-Way Radio for Business by Motorola Solutions: Reliable business communication, now with Wi-Fi and voice assistance capabilities. Learn more.

www.motorolasolutions.com

 

[W4GED]

Thank you for all the replies. I do not care about the Walmart necessarily I was using it as an example. So then I will ask the question I am sure that has been asked so many times. Is there still enough to listen to out there that you can hear to justify a $1k scanner price? I guess it all comes down to the individual.

 

[nd5y]

So then I will ask the question I am sure that has been asked so many times. Is there still enough to listen to out there that you can hear to justify a $1k scanner price? I guess it all comes down to the individual.

It depends on your location, what you want to listen to, and what in your area is possible to receive depending on your location and antenna height.

It might be a good idea to get a $40 SDR dongle and get an idea of what is physically possible to receive at your location before you spend a lot on a digital scanner.

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

Is there still enough to listen to out there that you can hear to justify a $1k scanner price? I guess it all comes down to the individual.

If your focus is primarily (or mostly) on businesses then no, I wouldn't blow 1K on an SDS150 (the model I assume you're inquiring about) for that. Visit your local RRDB page, see what has been ID'ed for your area and make the decision for yourself. If there are no systems with simulcast sites in your area then you might be able to get away with a scanner for a fraction of the price. Though it would be a better idea for you to reply back with specific info on where you are and who you intend on monitoring so an informed recommendation can be made for you

 

[popnokick]

Scanner Stories: What I listened to after the good stuff went encrypted

Guest writer: Will Sperling, W9WSS Hi, Rich is taking the day off today. This is Will, W9WSS, filling in for him. Our tale today takes us back to suburban Chicago, this time to southeast DuPage County. As a retired police officer and coordinator of my agency’s radio system (much like Rich was)...

forums.radioreference.com

 

[pb_lonny]

A lot of the headsets are now unscannable, I have lost a few of them here to 900MHz spreadspectrum.

 

[W4GED]

If your focus is primarily (or mostly) on businesses then no, I wouldn't blow 1K on an SDS150 (the model I assume you're inquiring about) for that. Visit your local RRDB page, see what has been ID'ed for your area and make the decision for yourself. If there are no systems with simulcast sites in your area then you might be able to get away with a scanner for a fraction of the price. Though it would be a better idea for you to reply back with specific info on where you are and who you intend on monitoring so an informed recommendation can be made for you

I purchased the SDS150, and I have a discone 25 feet in the air. I like to listen to all kinds of things, and there is not just one thing I want to hear. I do like listening to aircraft, for sure, and I know I do not need the SDS150 to do that. I am not a collector of things, and if I am going to buy something, I want it to be nice and the best I can afford. If that means waiting, then I wait, so I went with the SDS150. When I go to that RRDB, I do not see much listed in my area, and that is what confuses me. I live in a county of over 500k people with tons of schools and businesses all over, but there is very little listed on that page. For instance, the database lists 9 schools, but there are over 180 in the county, and we are the 44th largest school district in the United States. That is one example where I am confused and trying to figure it out. Like last school year, I tried to listen for buses but could never find them. I am 6.5 miles (by car) from the railroad depot, and I cannot find the trains to listen to. Now, I have added the antenna since last year, and the electritian is coming on Wednesday to get the Coax into the shack for me, so I have not tried it yet to see if that helps. Now granted, I may be looking at it incorrectly or not understand what I am looking at, so I welcome someone to tell me I am incorrect.
The thing I may not be understanding about the whole DMR situation is: if you cannot find a list of the frequencies and you cannot just scan around and listen, then how do you find them and get the information to program into the scanner? Recently, I saw a video on YouTube saying that even if you have DMR unlocked on your radio, you still need all the information to program into the radio to hear it. In the old days, I loved just scanning and finding things that way. I guess it was the equivalent of scrolling on the phone, never knowing what would pop up next.
I am still within my return window for the scanner, but I ran into these issues and am trying to figure them out before my return window closes. Again, I may absolutely be misunderstanding something, and again, I have no issues if someone shows me my error. Also, if anyone knows of someone who offers paid coaching/training on all these things, I would be open to it. I do not want to just have the unit programmed; I want to learn how to do it, but it is a little more complicated than it used to be. I have asked around in my local area, and there is no one that I have found who cares much for scanning. There are lots of ham Elmer's out there, but no scanning Elmer's.

Thank you for the replies and help in figuring it out as I learn.

 

[nd5y]

When I go to that RRDB, I do not see much listed in my area, and that is what confuses me.

In some areas the DB is nearly useless. There aren't people everywhere that identify and submit things.

Go to your county page, click the menu button on the upper right part of the page and select FCC Licenses.
You should get a page like this.

Wichita County, Texas (TX) FCC Licenses

FCC Licenses in Wichita County, Texas (TX)

www.radioreference.com

The column headings are sortable. On the left there is a search box that says Choose Licenses to Filter Out/Remove. At first it's probably best to filter out Expired/Cancelled licenses. The Search box on the right is good for finding frequencies, licensee names, cities.

Click on the callsigns for more detail.
It helps if you are familiar with the codes used on the licenses.

FCC Station Class Codes - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

Emission Designator - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

FCC Radio Service Codes - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

I don't know anything about South Carolina but they have a statewide P25 trunked system

Palmetto 800 Trunking System, Various, South Carolina

Palmetto 800 Trunking System Profile

www.radioreference.com

I don't know how many county and local users are on it. Maybe yours are.

 

[AK9R]

When I go to that RRDB, I do not see much listed in my area, and that is what confuses me.

You've tried listening to all of these agencies in Greenville County SC, plus the Palmetto 800 system, and you aren't finding anything to listen to?

Greenville County, South Carolina (SC) Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference

Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference for Greenville County, South Carolina (SC)

www.radioreference.com

 

[W4GED]

You've tried listening to all of these agencies in Greenville County SC, plus the Palmetto 800 system, and you aren't finding anything to listen to?

Greenville County, South Carolina (SC) Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference

Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference for Greenville County, South Carolina (SC)

www.radioreference.com

Again, there are things on there to listen to but what I am trying to understand is out of over 180 schools where are the rest of them? Where are all the business in the area? I think maybe I am expecting to much from the DB. Again that comes back to the confusing part. If it is not in the data base and your scanner can not pick it up unless it is programed then there seems to be a huge gap in finding what is able to be listened to. Like in the old days you would scan, hear something and then look it up in the book and see what it was and save it in the scanner. I know those days are long gone and I am trying to figure out the new way to do it.

 

[W4GED]

In some areas the DB is nearly useless. There aren't people everywhere that identify and submit things.

Go to your county page, click the menu button on the upper right part of the page and select FCC Licenses.
You should get a page like this.

Wichita County, Texas (TX) FCC Licenses

FCC Licenses in Wichita County, Texas (TX)

www.radioreference.com

The column headings are sortable. On the left there is a search box that says Choose Licenses to Filter Out/Remove. At first it's probably best to filter out Expired/Cancelled licenses. The Search box on the right is good for finding frequencies, licensee names, cities.

Click on the callsigns for more detail.
It helps if you are familiar with the codes used on the licenses.

FCC Station Class Codes - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

Emission Designator - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

FCC Radio Service Codes - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

I don't know anything about South Carolina but they have a statewide P25 trunked system

Palmetto 800 Trunking System, Various, South Carolina

Palmetto 800 Trunking System Profile

www.radioreference.com

I don't know how many county and local users are on it. Maybe yours are.

Okay now that showed me tons of stuff. The university next to me has a ton listed under them when I went to the search you told me to. I now need to figure out what to do with that info but that is a start so thank you for verifying there are things out there.

 

[ladn]

So then I will ask the question I am sure that has been asked so many times. Is there still enough to listen to out there that you can hear to justify a $1k scanner price? I guess it all comes down to the individual.

Exactly! Like beauty, "value" is in the eye of the beholder.
Personally, I think you errored by purchasing two radios (the SDS 100 & 150) that exceeded your technical abilities to utilize them. You might have been better served with simpler radios like the 125AT or the 325P2.

Part of successful scanning involves researching. Asking here on RR is a good start. You should also observe what radios, especially their antennas, are being used by the agencies that interest you.

Don't overlook the search function in your radio. Search in small frequency blocks. Investing in quality software, like ProScan, will make it easier to set up search parameters and the software can log the "hits". Bob, the author, is a frequent contributor here (ProScan: - Official Software Thread) and he provides very competent customer service.

 

[W4GED]

Exactly! Like beauty, "value" is in the eye of the beholder.
Personally, I think you errored by purchasing two radios (the SDS 100 & 150) that exceeded your technical abilities to utilize them. You might have been better served with simpler radios like the 125AT or the 325P2.

Part of successful scanning involves researching. Asking here on RR is a good start. You should also observe what radios, especially their antennas, are being used by the agencies that interest you.

Don't overlook the search function in your radio. Search in small frequency blocks. Investing in quality software, like ProScan, will make it easier to set up search parameters and the software can log the "hits". Bob, the author, is a frequent contributor here (ProScan: - Official Software Thread) and he provides very competent customer service.

I can understand the point on the radio I picked but to me I want to learn and be able to have something that covers it all.
I honestly just heard about Proscan when someone mentioned it on the forum. I will need to understand what it is and if I can run it on Parallels, does it override programing on scanner done in Sentinel and what all it does better than Sentinel.