AR5700D First impressions

sub101uk

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Yes I am fully aware that you can bolt on a DV1 onto a IC-R8600 so you can receive DMR , I have said this many times in my previous replys but why on earth should I have to buy a second radio ! Why not just buy just a DV1 and use that for DMR and leave the R8600 on the self . Thinking about the problem with the R8600 you could bolt on a ARD 300 but that alone is about the cost of a second hand DV1 .

But I fully agree the 8600 is a far better receiver most of my kit here is icom from HF / 2m / 70 cms , 23 cms in Kenwood , As for linears that Henry or Kenwood all nice glowing valves .

As for the 5700D well that left this morning so I hate to think how many times this radio has to be returned before they just change the radio out and give me a new one . Because its the only way forward other wise its going to end up in a small claims court . As I have all the emails to show all the times its been return for repairs which shows the radio not fit for purpose .

Anyway wait and see how I get on but this has gone on long enough and the radio going deaf and the local independent communications shop also confirms my findings . AOR or the importer maynot accept the findings but a court we see that I took the time to show that there is a inherent problem with this radio . In its current state the 5700D cant be sold off unless sold under spares or repaires .
 

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marlbrook

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Yes I am fully aware that you can bolt on a DV1 onto a IC-R8600 so you can receive DMR , I have said this many times in my previous replys but why on earth should I have to buy a second radio ! Why not just buy just a DV1 and use that for DMR and leave the R8600 on the self . Thinking about the problem with the R8600 you could bolt on a ARD 300 but that alone is about the cost of a second hand DV1 .

If you look it was a reply 'to' and 'meant for' SigIntel8600 regarding his last post about the 3 Radios.

He ALREADY has a DV1 and R8600.

From that post it does not seem he was aware of being able to connect the DV1 and R8600, and has ordered a 5700D to achieve much the same thing.
 
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MStep

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Marlbrook, your inspiration to connect the 8600 with the DV-1 is very clever. I have not seen it in operation yet; is there available on YouTube, or perhaps you can produce a YouTube video, showing the connection and exactly how that whole thing comes together to operate as one super-radio.
 

marlbrook

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Marlbrook, your inspiration to connect the 8600 with the DV-1 is very clever. I have not seen it in operation yet; is there available on YouTube, or perhaps you can produce a YouTube video, showing the connection and exactly how that whole thing comes together to operate as one super-radio.

It is so simple that it is almost embarrassing to explain it, lol.

1. Imagine you have an antenna connected to your DV1, and you have set the VFO frequency to say 165.5125.
2. Now you can of course apply any of the DV1's appropriate functions to that VFO's frequency, Mode, IF Bandwidth, etc etc.
3. Instead tune the DV1's input Frequency to 10.7MHz. Exactly the same applies as above.
4. On the rear of the IC-R8600 there is a BNC socket, which outputs anything and everything from the R8600 at any Frequency it is being tuned to, but via its 10.7MHz socket (an intermediate IF).
5. If the R8600 is tuned to say, 145.5MHz, whatever it hears is sent out at 10.7MHz. Scan, enter a new Frequency, select one via the Band Scope or just turn the Tuning knob. The new Icom frequency still comes out 'as is', but at 10.7MHz from the socket.
6. So all you need do is use a BNC to BNC cable, and connect one side to the Icom output, and the other to the AR-DV1's antenna socket, and tune the DV1 input to 10.7MHz.
7. Then just use all the appropriate DV1 functions. It believes it is hearing a 10.7MHz signal and processes it as it would any other frequency, when of course the reality is it is actually hearing whatever frequency the ICOM is listening to. Even 'AUTO' digital detection works.
8. If you wish, just reconnect an antenna to the DV1 and it will operate normally

There is one extra dimension. I have found one can actually tune the DV1 up to 1.5MHz above and below 10.7MHz. As the DV1's frequency changes, without altering the ICOM' displayed frequency, on can tune around that.

So if the Icom is set to 145.5, then by moving the DV1 to 9.7MHZ, it will hear what the Icom is receiving at 144.5MHz WITHOUT altering the ICOM.

The advantage is that much smaller frequency steps are available than the Icom can manage, However one would need to be able to see exactly what was being monitored. The Icom frequency display still remains on 145.5, but the DV1 display shows 9.7, when what one is actually monitoring from the Icom is 144.5.

However in my next eSPYonARD update I have included a function that will display on the program's screen the real ICOM frequency the DV1 is processing, which nicely 'squares the circle'.

I would not really expect anyone to buy either an R-8600 or an AR-DV1 just for the above, but as you say in combination it will produce a 'super radio', with all the positive advantages of both Receivers rolled into one. In fact one could buy both for less than an AR-5700D. All one needs is a single BNC to BNC cable, and no setting up whatsoever.
 
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Ubbe

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Could it be possible to use a $20 SDR dongle connected to the 10,7MHz output and have SDR# with a scanner plugin to search that 3MHz range and then use DSD+ to decode all modes that it is capable of? Or at least point and click in the spectrum. Then if the audio could be split, I think it was possible with one of the virtual audio cables, you could also run the tetra plugin in SDR# at the same time. You could even record the whole 3MHz and save to be played back later in SDR# and decode any frequency inside the 3MHz bandwidth.

/Ubbe
 

marlbrook

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Could it be possible to use a $20 SDR dongle connected to the 10,7MHz output etc

It would certainly be possible to connect any RF device capable of receiving and tuned to 10.7 MHz. Once connected to the Icom's 10.7 output the connected device would be 'receiving' whatever the Icom was tuned to. That would include a $20 dollar Dongle (or even a $19.99 one, lol)

Leaving the Dongle set to 10.7 MHz via a suitable SDR program running, any of its Functions should work. Depending on the Dongle one might need to attenuate the signal coming from the Icom. The actual efficiency/specs of the Dongle are not really important, as the Icom is doing all the 'front end' work.

There are however two things that need to be considered regarding your SDR program's scanning.

1. Although I said I have found I could tune around the input device initially set to 10.7, up to 1.5 MHZ either way and still receive signals from the Icom, the actual output 'efficiency' will start to drop off the further one tunes away from the centre frequency. How that would translate to the efficiency at either end of your scan in a real world environment depends on just too many chaotic variables to assess.

If the Icom is picking up what might be an S9 signal translated into the 10.7 output, in my experience it would still detect and output that signal if it were found at 9.7, but how well would also be a factor of the attached receiving device's capabilities. Certainly a barely detectable signal coming out from the Icom at 10.7, might have disappeared if the Dongle was tuned to 9.7, i.e the furthest end of the scale.

2. One very real issue is determining the actual received frequency, since the only one showing on the SDR software would be in to 10 MHz range. No problem when set to 10.7, as it is the frequency showing on the Icom itself of course.

That is why I included the actual Icom R8600 frequency being monitored being displayed when using the DV1 with eSPYonARD (next update). It is 'dynamic' in that it changes on the program's screen as the DV1 is tuned, so you know exactly what you are listening to.

That does give a certain 'Band Spread' ability but I cannot envisage a scenario when that would be needed, although nothing is impossible.

Some people say the need smaller tuning steps than the Icom can achieve under certain circumstances. That is easily done using the DV1 by selecting its 'steps' when used as the attached device but only really useful if you can actually see the frequency it is receiving from the Icom, and for that one would need the DV1's eSPYonARD software.

In those particular circumstances one would only be tuning a very small amount above or below the frequency shown on the Icom, and any 'drop' in efficiency would be too small to worry about.

--------------------------

I realise the original thread was about the 5700D, but quite naturally references to the AR-DV1 and Icom IC-R8600 appeared. I have followed his posts from the beginning, here and on Facebook Groups, and his remarks about at least 'waiting' until AOR have definitely sorted out the 5700D are very compelling. Also I certainly feel anyone thinking they need to spend that much money because of the 5700's advertised specs should seriously consider an Icom IC-R8600 and AR-DV1 combination.

I have seen several posts in reply to mine about using the AR-DV1 with the Icom R8600 stating it is financially impracticable, and suggesting using SD Dongles or even the expensive and discontinued ARD-300 instead.

Actually for anyone who really feel they want the brilliant front end of the R8600, but with all the additional Modes and capabilities of the DV1 it is less expensive than the AOR 5700D (which does not even have a Band Scope' built in, just a software one).

I was surprised to find how many people actually already owned both Radios. Whether it is worth the monetary outlay is totally subjective, but it is hard to deny when connected together they represent a 'Super Radio.

I have never suggested people should go out and buy either or both just so they could be connected as described, but being made aware of the potential results is another matter.

Of course the combination will not 'please' everyone. There are those that hate AOR and/or any Icom Radio. Those that 'detest' the look of the DV1, or its lack of quadraphonic Bose quality audio. I know, I have read the posts (SIGH). However if you do appreciate the capabilities of both Radios, once 'merged' they offer very 'special' possibilities.

I am lucky, I own both Receivers. My DV1 is certainly not permanently hooked up the the R8600 as its 'slave'. I use both independently most of the time.

If you are into SDR via your Computer than lots to experiment with there if you want.

However with just one antenna switch (just for convenience) and a single BNC cable I can connect the DV1 to its own Antenna, or the R8600 together as and when I want to. No need to use a Computer / software (except as mentioned above). Just as simple as one simple connecting wire, and tuning the DV1 to 10.7 MHz and all is ready, multiple Digital Modes for the R8600 included with auto detection, to name but a few 'little' extras.

Do the two Radios in combination represent the perfect answer, of course not? Is there anything as versatile available at the moment in stand alone Receivers (including the 5700D at its enormous cost), well that remains to be seen.
 

sub101uk

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Yes I think we are getting a bit of the Topic " AR5700D - First impressions " So far not found many using the 5700D .On the facebook groups I think so far in europe and US I found about 8 owners from speaking to other owners of the 5700D none seem to have had the same amount of problems that I have had . Some have had problems with the CPU crashing for no reason Some have the original and others have more updated firmware .But people who are thinking of buying a 5700D should be fully aware that they cannot do the firmware them selfs it has to be returned so like Marlbrook has been saying it might be best to buy a R8600 and do a bolt on job with a DV1 since the firmware can be updated by yourself.

So its hard to say what is the best way forward ? Do you buy a leatherman multi tool or do you get a separate receiver for each digital mode .As far as I know at the moment there is no other receiver that does as many modes as the AOR range . So your very limited in choice . With the R8600 and buying a separate DMR receiver or do a bolt on job with a DV1 or a ARD-300 .

With a bit of luck my 5700D should be in Japan next week so I should know what the way forward is by then .
 

SigIntel8600

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Are you aware that with a single BNC cable you can connect the DV1 to the IC-R8600?

Yes Sir and I have dabbled with it. It works very well as you have described. However, I can see myself investigating 6 MHz or other HF frequencies via band scope on the 8600 while at the same time searching for UHF signals on the 5700D. Or vice versa, the 5700D has dual receive A = below 25 MHz and B above 25MHz,. If it meets my needs, my DV-1 will be sold, or used as a backup when the 5700D goes sailing off to Japan, LOL. Well I'm still waiting on a shipment date, so we shall see..........
 

sub101uk

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I hope you make sure when you receive your 5700D that is has the 07 or higher firmware installed other wise your going to end up the same as me . But you have the DV1 + the 8600 so no problems . Until they sort the firmware out on the 5700D I should hang on to the DV1 . I would love to compare a DV1 to a 5700D and see what difference is and what do you get for your extra bucks since the 5700D cost 3 times the amount of a 5700D

My 5700D left 2 days ago for its forth trip to the workshops so I hope they just change the radio over and have done with it as the last repair bill came to £175 since the warranty expired in January 2021 .So good luck with your new 5700D and look forward to hearing what firmware you have installed .There is a company in the states which does make extras for AOR and many other brands of receivers but only security forces have access to : www.comintconsulting.com if you look at Krypto500 and Krypto1000 these are ITAR-controlled products made for the professional COMINT / SIGINT market, not for amateur use .

I look forward to seeing you on the 5700D group on FB as for me its to early to say what is going to happen my end but if it does go to small claims court its slow and stressful as all I want is a working radio that keeps working .
 

MStep

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I hope you make sure when you receive your 5700D that is has the 07 or higher firmware installed other wise your going to end up the same as me . But you have the DV1 + the 8600 so no problems . Until they sort the firmware out on the 5700D I should hang on to the DV1 . I would love to compare a DV1 to a 5700D and see what difference is and what do you get for your extra bucks since the 5700D cost 3 times the amount of a 5700D

My 5700D left 2 days ago for its forth trip to the workshops so I hope they just change the radio over and have done with it as the last repair bill came to £175 since the warranty expired in January 2021 .So good luck with your new 5700D and look forward to hearing what firmware you have installed .There is a company in the states which does make extras for AOR and many other brands of receivers but only security forces have access to : www.comintconsulting.com if you look at Krypto500 and Krypto1000 these are ITAR-controlled products made for the professional COMINT / SIGINT market, not for amateur use .

I look forward to seeing you on the 5700D group on FB as for me its to early to say what is going to happen my end but if it does go to small claims court its slow and stressful as all I want is a working radio that keeps working .

Good luck on your 4th attempt to get your 5700 straightened out. My guess is that you will not get a new radio. It seems that your hard-earned bucks has given you the "privilege" of being more of a test-subject in a somewhat bizarre AOR endurance experiment fiasco rather than an actual respected consumer.

That having been said, it's probably better that you do not get a new unit. My guess is that the entire inventory of 5700's is defective one way or another--- all that will likely be accomplished if you get another unit is that you will find that you have received a new can of worms to deal with.

I'm curious as to the physical condition of your 5700 after all of these trips. Even though they can't seem to rectify the issues, do they are least respect the condition of your radio, or does it come back like it appears that it has been worked on several times? Is it getting beaten up in this continuous process of back and forth?

One of the more distressing issues is the fact that you cannot do firmware changes on your own to see what works best for you. I imagine that each unit is an entity unto itself, and that no two 5700's are identical. They are probably all using experimental parts from different suppliers, all this in an apparently vain attempt to get the units working properly. Likely each firmware update has to be "tweaked" to the particular radio at hand.

And thanks for taking the time to keep us all posted on your situation. I think a lot of folks who might have been considering the 5700 may have "opted-out" for the time being based on your situation.
 

sub101uk

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Yes you maybe right they may just return the old radio with a very large bill for me to pay should that happen it will just end up in a small claims court with the subject " Unfit for Purpose " How many times does it take before they change this radio out or are we going to be having the same conversation this time next year and by then we could be talking about trip number 7 to Japan .

But people who are thinking of buying a 5700D should be fully aware of the firmware and repairs .But when the radio is working its ok not perfect but you can live with a few bugs here and there .But Like I said best to wait .
 

G7HID

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Having followed this tale from the start, I do not remember anybody from the initial dealer to the importer to AOR acknowledging that there is a fault and the 5700 being returned each time to you as No Fault Found. So you might have a problem convincing a Small Claims Court to award for you :(

Mike
 

MStep

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Having followed this tale from the start, I do not remember anybody from the initial dealer to the importer to AOR acknowledging that there is a fault and the 5700 being returned each time to you as No Fault Found. So you might have a problem convincing a Small Claims Court to award for you :(

Mike

I am more optimistic. If the UK small claims courts work anything like they do here in the U.S., he should have no problem with his claim providing that he has all his documentation. A reasonable person will realize that he is not sending the radio back "for his health". Essentially all he has to convince the court is that there are "intermittent" problem(s), which AOR has not been able to resolve.

Many times, the defendants will not even show up in court, and the plaintiff will win a default judgement, which then starts a 30 day appeal process. At least, that's how it worked here in New York State. Your mileage may vary, as they say.

When you finally get to court after all the legal paperwork processing is done, appear in court with all of your documentation neatly arranged. And most important of all, wear a jacket and tie.
 

sub101uk

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Regarding a claim in the UK system , How many times does this 5700D have to be returned to the main import + AOR before they change the radio out . The radio is Unfit for Purpose . If you buy a car and it keep breaking down you might put up with a few problems over a few months but this has been going on now for over 17 months .

If the radio is not changed out or a refund given then the small claims court is the only way forward , I have still all the documentation from purchasing the radio and all the documents showing the radio being return all with dates .Bought on 27th Jan 2020 within a few weeks it was return with the DALL problem , Firmware was changed out but with a few days it was now found that the DALL problem was still there plus it would not decode DMR again return to Japan .The radio came back from Japan about mid June 2020 this time firmware was changed to 05 .Radio this time seem to be ok but about Nov - December 2020 it seem to be going deaf . Contacted importer about new firmware and sensitivity issues in Feb 2021 radio was returned but no fault was found with sensitivity and firmware 07 was installed .Radio returned in March 2021 and sensitivity was excellent so it all seem very strange however within 6 weeks the radio had gone deaf again .

I contacted the importer who contacted AOR regarding the radio going deaf and was told :-

  • They would be quite surprised if the radio itself was going deaf – but see (c) below
  • The specification is 0.4uV in NFM mode, at 439.6375MHz , at 12dB SINAD with a bandwidth of 15kHz
  • Check the receiver with an analogue signal, If it is ok with the analogue signal it is likely to be an issue with the digital signal itself rather than the radio. However if the reception of the analogue signal degrades, we should have it back here to check the sensitivity using test equipment and go forwards from there.
  • UHF signal strengths can vary for many reasons including atmospheric
So how on earth does my local commercial radio signal drop from 5/9+ 20 to 5/4 or my local hospital DMR signal that is only 1/2 a mile from my location signal drop from 60 over 9 to 5/5 . If you compare on 2m the signal on my old Icom 275H with the 5700D , 275H has a signal of 5/9 + 20 but 5700D has same signal as 5/2 . All this I have videos and pictures to support my claim . Both radio used the same antenna a Diamond X510 .

I took the radio down to my local independent PMR Communications Workshop and they tested it and confirmed my findings , When the importer + AOR where told of this they would not accept the findings " They do not appear on the AOR approved test/service centres list so there report is not acceptable .

So we shall see what happens but people reading this topic should think twice about buying one until they sort out the problems .After speaking with 9 other 5700D owners its clear that the problems are not the same on all 5700D but when you think AOR have very little service centres and every thing seems to be return to japan and your warranty is only 12 months you could be having the same problem as myself as the last repair bill came to £175 .

So like I keep saying all I want is a radio that does not have to be repaired every few months and the only way forward is Exchange this radio or just give me a refund .
 

MStep

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Regarding a claim in the UK system , How many times does this 5700D have to be returned to the main import + AOR before they change the radio out . The radio is Unfit for Purpose . If you buy a car and it keep breaking down you might put up with a few problems over a few months but this has been going on now for over 17 months .

If the radio is not changed out or a refund given then the small claims court is the only way forward , I have still all the documentation from purchasing the radio and all the documents showing the radio being return all with dates .Bought on 27th Jan 2020 within a few weeks it was return with the DALL problem , Firmware was changed out but with a few days it was now found that the DALL problem was still there plus it would not decode DMR again return to Japan .The radio came back from Japan about mid June 2020 this time firmware was changed to 05 .Radio this time seem to be ok but about Nov - December 2020 it seem to be going deaf . Contacted importer about new firmware and sensitivity issues in Feb 2021 radio was returned but no fault was found with sensitivity and firmware 07 was installed .Radio returned in March 2021 and sensitivity was excellent so it all seem very strange however within 6 weeks the radio had gone deaf again .

I contacted the importer who contacted AOR regarding the radio going deaf and was told :-

  • They would be quite surprised if the radio itself was going deaf – but see (c) below
  • The specification is 0.4uV in NFM mode, at 439.6375MHz , at 12dB SINAD with a bandwidth of 15kHz
  • Check the receiver with an analogue signal, If it is ok with the analogue signal it is likely to be an issue with the digital signal itself rather than the radio. However if the reception of the analogue signal degrades, we should have it back here to check the sensitivity using test equipment and go forwards from there.
  • UHF signal strengths can vary for many reasons including atmospheric
So how on earth does my local commercial radio signal drop from 5/9+ 20 to 5/4 or my local hospital DMR signal that is only 1/2 a mile from my location signal drop from 60 over 9 to 5/5 . If you compare on 2m the signal on my old Icom 275H with the 5700D , 275H has a signal of 5/9 + 20 but 5700D has same signal as 5/2 . All this I have videos and pictures to support my claim . Both radio used the same antenna a Diamond X510 .

I took the radio down to my local independent PMR Communications Workshop and they tested it and confirmed my findings , When the importer + AOR where told of this they would not accept the findings " They do not appear on the AOR approved test/service centres list so there report is not acceptable .

So we shall see what happens but people reading this topic should think twice about buying one until they sort out the problems .After speaking with 9 other 5700D owners its clear that the problems are not the same on all 5700D but when you think AOR have very little service centres and every thing seems to be return to japan and your warranty is only 12 months you could be having the same problem as myself as the last repair bill came to £175 .

So like I keep saying all I want is a radio that does not have to be repaired every few months and the only way forward is Exchange this radio or just give me a refund .

I'm on your side buddy. You are making some great posts here. But rather than expending all of your energy here, I would love to here instead that you have started the process of filing the initial paperwork with the U.K. version of the small claims court. Except for the fact that you are likely killing a lot of 5700 sales, at least with readers of this forum, you're not accomplishing anything to help yourself remedy your particular situation.

In my opinion, the best solution in your case (and with my admittedly limited legal experience) is to file a claim for the cost of your receiver, including all taxes and the initial shipping costs. Include in that claim the number of times you have returned the radio and the shipping and/or repair costs your were charged each time.

I don't know what the limit is in small claims court in the U.K., but if the purchase comes close to the legal limit, you can likely file two associated claims--- the first for the cost of the radio, and the second for all involved costs with shipping for returns and repair.

I don't think that there is anyone here who is not feeling your pain, but start the process of filing your claim. Unless your claim hits the AOR dealer who sold you the radio and then the actual AOR corporation, you will get no redress.

By all means, continue posting here, but don't let this be a substitute for following up on your rights as a consumer in the U.K. If you have not already done so, it is time to start the ball rolling.
 

sub101uk

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Well I will give them them the opportunity to sort this mess out but if the same radio returns with a very large bill then its going to be small claims I have already said this to the importer and dealer but after 17 months my patience is running thin .

Why they did not change out the radio to start with I dont know .
 

alanswebb

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Well I will give them them the opportunity to sort this mess out but if the same radio returns with a very large bill then its going to be small claims I have already said this to the importer and dealer but after 17 months my patience is running thin .

Why they did not change out the radio to start with I dont know .
As you will be aware from other forums, I have very recently purchased AOR 5700D from main UK dealer. So new in fact that this shipment arrived with them this week fresh from Japan. The latest firmware is as the attachment will show. It strikes me odd that they (AOR) are offering a 30 day money back on this product, clearly advertised with Waters and Stanton. Why? Is this because they are confident they have fixed any major issues they were having? Admittedly, 30 days isn’t long enough for it to develop a fault but I have not known AOR advertise this previously. Yes, it’s early days yet, I hope I am not so unfortunate as sub101uk. Future will tell!
 

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MStep

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As you will be aware from other forums, I have very recently purchased AOR 5700D from main UK dealer. So new in fact that this shipment arrived with them this week fresh from Japan. The latest firmware is as the attachment will show. It strikes me odd that they (AOR) are offering a 30 day money back on this product, clearly advertised with Waters and Stanton. Why? Is this because they are confident they have fixed any major issues they were having? Admittedly, 30 days isn’t long enough for it to develop a fault but I have not known AOR advertise this previously. Yes, it’s early days yet, I hope I am not so unfortunate as sub101uk. Future will tell!

Best of luck with the new "toy" and you can be assured many will likely be watching carefully for your reports on your experiences.
 

SigIntel8600

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As you will be aware from other forums, I have very recently purchased AOR 5700D from main UK dealer. So new in fact that this shipment arrived with them this week fresh from Japan. The latest firmware is as the attachment will show. It strikes me odd that they (AOR) are offering a 30 day money back on this product, clearly advertised with Waters and Stanton. Why? Is this because they are confident they have fixed any major issues they were having? Admittedly, 30 days isn’t long enough for it to develop a fault but I have not known AOR advertise this previously. Yes, it’s early days yet, I hope I am not so unfortunate as sub101uk. Future will tell!

Thanks for the update. It's good to know the radio arrived with the latest firmware. I am still waiting for mine. My dealer in the US, HRO has advised me that AOR has drop shipped the 5700D to me but AOR will not give out tracking info. You would think for a 5K rig, the manufacturer and the dealer would be more responsive to a customer's request for tracking information. Oh well, if they DGAF, I won't either if something goes wrong, my CC company has my back. How do you like the performance of your radio so far?
 
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