From today's Denver Post

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jimmnn

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Communicating in an emergency

By Dan Grossman
Denver

Since the devastation of Hurricane Katrina, there has been much opining and little agreement by pundits and government officials regarding Colorado's preparedness for large-scale disasters. But there is one lesson from Katrina that is both basic and critical. In the parlance of emergency response, it is the imperative of interoperability. In layman's terms, it is the need for all of our first responders to be able to communicate with one another in the face of monumental logistical challenges posed by large-scale incidents.

According to The Associated Press, technicians deployed to New Orleans to repair the flood-damaged communications systems of the police and fire departments were prevented from entering the city by state troopers who were using a different, incompatible system made by a different manufacturer. Meanwhile, the first responders within the city were forced to use limited "mutual aid" channels to coordinate response, but such channels quickly became overwhelmed by the thousands of users attempting to communicate. As a result, Federal Emergency Management Agency officials couldn't communicate readily with state and local agencies, helicopter rescuers couldn't communicate with rescue workers on the ground or on boats and the National Guard had to use runners to relay messages.

Katrina, like so many disasters before it, exemplifies the problem created by the lack of interoperability.

It is a problem that should sound familiar to Coloradans. On April 20, 1999, after Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold went on a shooting spree at Columbine High School that left 15 people dead and dozens wounded, nearly 1,000 cops, firefighters and EMTs responded to the scene. They represented six sheriffs' offices, 20 police departments, and 12 fire and EMS agencies. And when they got to the scene, efforts to coordinate the operation to rescue the students and apprehend the suspects were stymied by a tangle of incompatible radios and communications infrastructures.

Fortunately (indeed, miraculously), no additional lives were lost as a result of the confusion caused by the lack of interoperability at Columbine. Will we be as fortunate next time?

The state's commitment to creating a statewide, interoperable public safety radio system has been inconsistent. The legislature and the governor's office share responsibility for failing to fully fund the build-out of such a system (called the digital trunked radio system, or "DTRS"). Completion of the system was a promise made after Columbine that has yet to be fulfilled.

Fortunately, the governor's office dedicated $13 million of energy impact fees to the building of towers in areas of the state not yet covered by DTRS. While it will not be enough to complete the build-out, it is creating important progress.

But to make matters worse, the DTRS has yet to be embraced by Colorado's first responders. In fact, of the over 1,400 law enforcement, fire and EMS agencies in Colorado, only 400 are currently using the DTRS. Because the DTRS is a vendor-specific system (built by Motorola) that is not directly compatible with systems and radios produced by other manufacturers, it is not easy for non-Motorola agencies to join the system. Local agencies that have invested significant resources in their non-Motorola systems are reluctant to switch to systems that require more expensive equipment. Moreover, many local agencies in the mountainous areas of the state feel that the 800MHz radios that are compatible with DTRS do not work as well in their areas as their lower-frequency systems. And the U.S. Forest Service and the Bureau of Land Management, which patrol vast portions of Colorado, especially on the Western Slope, currently use VHF radios that are not compatible with DTRS.

Fortunately, technology that allows incompatible radios to patch into the DTRS is improving rapidly. For example, the Denver Police Department, which uses a MA/Com 800MHz radio system that is not directly compatible with the DTRS, is implementing an Internet protocol system that will allow it and other non-Motorola agencies to join talk groups on the DTRS during large-scale emergencies. This type of technology shows great promise in enhancing the coverage of and participation in the DTRS without asking local agencies to jettison their existing systems and radios.

Achieving interoperability will require the concerted effort of state and local government. The governor's office and the legislature need to work together to find the funds necessary to complete the build-out of the DTRS infrastructure and to remove the vendor-specific aspects of the system that are barriers to expanding interoperability. Local agencies need to craft and implement interoperability plans that specify how they will migrate to a communications system that is compatible with DTRS or how they will modify their existing systems to patch onto the statewide system by a specific date.

Other states such as Minnesota and Virginia have successfully implemented interoperability strategies that have improved public safety. Colorado, the home of Columbine, should follow suit.

As Katrina emphatically demonstrates, we simply can't afford not to.

Democratic state Sen. Dan Grossman represents District 32 in Denver and Jefferson County.
 

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Once again the politicos are using the Columbine Incident to push the DTRS system. I wish career politicians would quit using the unfortunate deaths of those individuals to push an agenda as well as the profits of one corporation.

As usual the article fails to state that Jefferson County was constructing their portion of what is now the state DTRS system at the time and that it was not operational.

The article also fails to mention that Firestone Police are using E.F. Johnson radios and are not beholden to Motorola. (Though their Johnson radios have been compared to a POS at times)

By the time they get the current system statewide built and rebanded it will be time to scrap it for phase II or III P25 or APCO will have adopted a completely different digital standard.

Phil.
 

RISC777

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Interoperability...like hazmat not being able to use Boulder's Red3 today at Lexmark.
 

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I wish career politicians would quit using the unfortunate deaths of those individuals to push an agenda as well as the profits of one corporation.

What is the agenda you propose they are pushing? Are you saying that the Columbine incident wasn't a communications nightmare, and that no action needed to be taken to attempt to improve interoperability?

By the time they get the current system statewide built and rebanded it will be time to scrap it for phase II or III P25 or APCO will have adopted a completely different digital standard.

So you're saying that since technology is rapidly evolving, don't make any investement, and don't attempt to improve radio interoperability?

Your post criticizes a concerted effort to provide interoperable communications throughout the state - and as with most who post negatively towards the DTRS, you fail to provide an alternative, or better, solution. When the DTRS project started, they decided to use the P-25 standard and the only vendor that was offering that standard was Motorola. EF Johnson just recently (within the past 6 months) has come out with P-25 infrastructure, and M/A-COM is pretty new in P-25 as well. Going with P-25 infrastructure still allowed for users to purchase subscribers from other vendors, e.g. Kenwood, EF Johnson, or Motorola. In an investment of a radio system, subscribers comprise a large portion of the cost, so if users are at least able to purchase subscribers from a number of different vendors, I don't see an issue with having one vendor provide infrastructure - especially when there was only one vendor to get it from in the beginning....

What is your proposed course of action to improve communications interoperability among first responders in Colorado?
 
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jimmnn

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RISC777 said:
Interoperability...like hazmat not being able to use Boulder's Red3 today at Lexmark.

Who could not operate on Red3? Longmont's Hazmat unit appeared to be the main one operating and I heard them talking to command on Red3 alot.

Jim<
 

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>What is the agenda you propose they are pushing

Makes the politician look like they are doing something wonderful to save the world to get votes by using others deaths to get them noticed.

Maybe if they were to cite a technical reason such as better technology with DTRS vs aging systems I wouldn't be so harsh on these politicos.

On the business profit portion:

DVSI get's a nice chunk of money for every radio and store bought scanner for the P25 digital vocoder. Nice little monopoly for an "open standard" technology.

>Are you saying that the Columbine incident wasn't a communications nightmare,

Did I say that? I don't think so. And yes I heard the hell that it was live on the radio when it happened.

>and that no action needed to be taken to attempt to improve interoperability?

Interoperability is the talk but where is it? Millions of dollars later and a fancy digital 800 network and operability is still pretty much the same even though more agencies are on the same network.

And Arvada, Aurora, Denver, Lakewood, Westy & Wheatridge said no thanks and stayed or went EDACS. Obviously no incentives to join the party. Plus having to get the blessing of a comittee to add anything to the network.

> So you're saying that since technology is rapidly evolving, don't make any investement, and don't attempt to improve radio interoperability?

Throwing millions of dollars into radio technology does not make interop. It's the people and agencies involved that do. Getting them to leave their egos at the door is the problem.

>Your post criticizes a concerted effort to provide interoperable communications throughout the state - and as with most who post negatively towards the DTRS, you fail to provide an alternative, or better, solution.

Well lessee. Most agencies in the state operate on VHF and have been for some time. No big issues and things work for their intended purpose. Boulder county is the closest local example of this.

State decides that 800 MHz is the ultimate radio band and that everybody should be crammed on to 3 MHz of spectrum with equipment costs 3 to 5 times higher than what agencies are used to spending on field equipment replacement. Nevermind that it doesn't work worth a damn in mountain terrain or even in some flat terrain.

Plus as an added bonus you have to get permission from a committee in the Metro area that decides how you will access the network and what you will be allowed to have.

Takes away the independence of an agency to operate their daily communications. Something that does not bode well with some.

Now the threat of withholding grant money for communications equipment replacement unless you jump on the DTRS bandwagon. Uh there's a word for that kind of approach.

A Denver metro coordinated operation could have worked and on 800 MHz.

Everywhere else could have stayed on VHF and upgraded to P25.

Oh and BTW analog allows interop too.

> When the DTRS project started, they decided to use the P-25 standard and the only vendor that was offering that standard was Motorola.

Not true. The system was a motorola ASTRO 25 (3600 Baud)mixed mode analog digital system. Not P25 in the true sense. It was later upgraded to true P25 for a price.

> EF Johnson just recently (within the past 6 months) has come out with P-25 infrastructure, and M/A-COM is pretty new in P-25 as well.

M/A-COM only did it to insure federal funding for upgrading Oakland CA's EDACS system to Pro-Voice and in order to facilitate the goverment not witholding funding they had to get field equipment to work with P25.

> Going with P-25 infrastructure still allowed for users to purchase subscribers from other vendors, e.g. Kenwood, EF Johnson, or Motorola. In an investment of a radio system, subscribers comprise a large portion of the cost, so if users are at least able to purchase subscribers from a number of different vendors, I don't see an issue with having one vendor provide infrastructure - especially when there was only one vendor to get it from in the beginning....

So far only one agency has been using non-moto gear and they have had intermittent problems with them working on the network. There is pure speculation as to why.

>What is your proposed course of action to improve communications interoperability among first responders in Colorado?

Instead of the state thinking the world revolves around the Denver metro area there should have been a serious look at what agencies throughout the state were using and which band had the majority of use. It's obvious excluding the metro area that it is primarily VHF. And with narrowband mandates there is plenty of channel availability now in the VHF range. 800 may work fine (Though UHF does much better) in the metro area but middle of nowhere Eastern Plains and the mountains forget it. I constantly hear CSP on "State 3 VHF" because of zero coverage in the dist 3C and 6C mountainous areas.

But since the state decided what is best for all of us....

Explain to those first responders why this technological marvel that is supposed to make everything wonderful doesn't when they have to battle for a channel grant to get an urgent voice message to dispatch or to a hospital or at a major incident. I hear this on the air almost daily.

Again as I have said before this system needs to get it's capacity increased in order to get everyone on board that the state is so adamant about cramming on it NOW.

Based on your long-form writing here I am of the impression you are a state employee trying to teach the virtures of how wonderful DTRS is?

Phil.
 

abqscan

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Well, that pretty much explains that!

Erik
 

dougjgray

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If the patrol cars have computers that can conect to the internet let them use Yahoo messenger, thats what I use FREE hehe
 

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Definitely agree with Phil. DTRS is a cool system and can do some great things, but not everyone needs to be (or should be) on it and it's not the only way to interop. People have been talking about interop. for years and years. The problem is planning and cooperation, not that everyone is not on the same system. Even in the days when everyone was on VHF analog, not everyone could talk to each other and that should have been simple. Adding a new technology in the mix does not make it easier.

Even if everyone were to join DTRS to help the state pay for their cool system, you're still going to have problems programming radios for every possible need and problems keeping everyone trained to be able to patch anyone to anyone. People should work towards interoperability but realize that DTRS is not the only thing that is needed. Oh, and next time an officer in Durango needs to talk to an officer in Fort Morgan, tell him to pick up his cell phone. Interoperability is mostly a localized issue.
 
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Just to add a little more. I think the biggest obstacle to interop. is that people are so territorial. The manufacturers are because they want you to be stuck buying their product to maximize profits. This is totally normal in a free market economy.

Also the agencies are territorial. A lot of them want control of their own system, and who can blame them, especially the larger ones. 90 some percent of the time they only need to talk within their own agency and they want it to work right for them. I don't really blame Denver (or anyone else) for not wanting to give up control by joining a state run system.

But of course things do happen that make it necessary for adjacent agencies to communicate and specific plans should be in place. I think one of the problems is that things don't happen often enough and after something is over, the agencies go back to their day to day stuff and sort of forget about it, or at least put it on the back burner.

It is going to require technology, but more importantly, cooperation. I mean supposedly one of the main reasons Aurora picked M/A-Com was because Denver uses it and now they are having political problems that make it so patrol officers can't have the other agency’s system/talk groups programmed in. This is just ridiculous.

These are things I think should happen:

Meet regularly to come up with interop. plans that will work today.

Keep the plans realistic and each agency should figure out who they are likely to need to talk to. Denver probably needs to be able to talk to almost all Metro agencies, but how likely is it that they will have something big happen with Longmont?

Realize that you can't plan for absolutely every eventuality.

Multi-protocol radios are a great step that the manufacturers are starting to take. M/A-Com does now have radios that will do EDACS, Provoice and P-25 Trunking. But cooperation is key, because users have to be allowed to program in another system and switch over if needed.

Patching systems together is still an important way to gain interop., but it does seem like a lot of work is needed to improve audio quality. Manufacturers should be pressured on this.

Then keep working on the interop. plan, it doesn't stop. Always check to make sure you can talk to the agencies that you need to. When they (or you) change systems or upgrade something, look at it again.

It's more about the planning than anything else and it can never stop because the technology is always changing.

And just one side note. I do think it is in bad taste for the DTRS pushers to keep brining up Columbine. Without saying it directly, they like to imply that lives could have been saved if agencies could have communicated better. There is no evidence to suggest this and its not fair to the relatives. Yes communication was a big problem, but if it had been better, would they have rushed in there and stopped the dirt balls? For one thing most of the damage had been done already. I too, listened to that whole thing and I could tell that the responders really didn’t know what to do (training, not communication). Not surprising since they had never had that happen before.

Everyone knows Columbine was really bad and everyone knows by now that there were communication problems, but lets stop using a tragedy to keep pushing for more money to build our cool trunking system. That really is pretty tasteless.
 
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DTRS_Master

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---I had to slice this up into two posts---


Makes the politician look like they are doing something wonderful to save the world to get votes by using others deaths to get them noticed.

I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that this is the case, rather I see it that they are doing something wonderful to save the world to get votes by fixing what was previously broken. Two different ways to look at the same issue, it seems.

Maybe if they were to cite a technical reason such as better technology with DTRS vs aging systems I wouldn't be so harsh on these politicos.

With a mesh of VHF and UHF systems, doesn't it make sense to get everyone on a common network? If the network was M/A-COM, i'd be making this same argument. If the network was VHF or UHF, i'd be making this very same argument. If all first responders are on a common network and properly trained to use the network, radio communications will be greatly improved. As I note, there are two parts to "fixing" communications problems: the network, and training the users to use the network. DTRS is the network, it's up to the individual agencies on the network to train the users to use the network properly. I believe that DTRS will be the "network" solution.

On the business profit portion:

DVSI get's a nice chunk of money for every radio and store bought scanner for the P25 digital vocoder. Nice little monopoly for an "open standard" technology.

I will agree that the "open standard" is a relative term - relative to how proprietary EDACS, SmartNet/SmartZone, and to a lesser extent, LTR, are/were. With those legacy systems, as we all well know, agencies are locked into purchasing their vendors' subscriber and infrastructure equipment. SmartNet and SmartZone got away from that proprietary lock on subscribers of late - but everyone sees the point. With P-25, subscribers from a number of different vendors can be purchased and used on the network. Infrastructure is not interoperable of yet (e.g. mixing EF Johnson and Motorola infrastructure in the same network) so that is an issue - but a small one since really Motorola was the only vendor of P-25 800 MHz infrastructure for a while.

Interoperability is the talk but where is it? Millions of dollars later and a fancy digital 800 network and operability is still pretty much the same even though more agencies are on the same network.

As I mentioned above, the network piece of the two-piece puzzle is in place in some areas. It's a matter of the individual agencies on the network taking responsiblity for training their users on how to use the radios and then true interoperability can be realized.

And Arvada, Aurora, Denver, Lakewood, Westy & Wheatridge said no thanks and stayed or went EDACS. Obviously no incentives to join the party. Plus having to get the blessing of a comittee to add anything to the network.

...and if the aforementioned agencies feel that another system fits their bill, I respect that decision. They need to do what they feel is best for them. If they believe that they can maintain interoperability with whomever they need to interoperate with on another system, great. It can be done - not as pretty - but it can be done.

It's better to have a comittee overseeing the network than a single entity or person. Additionally, with a comittee, there are more heads to getting together in a democratic fashion to make sure that the network is used properly. I would bet that if someone was wanting to bring infrastructure to the network, the comittee wouldn't have too much of a problem allowing it. The comittee was certainly the best decision for oversight of the network, hands down.

Throwing millions of dollars into radio technology does not make interop. It's the people and agencies involved that do. Getting them to leave their egos at the door is the problem.

Correct - throwing millions of dollars into radio technology does not make interoperability (see my discussion above on the two parts of radio interoperability). You're absolutely right that it's the people and agencies involved that do (again, see my discussion above on the two parts of radio interoperability).

I would like an example of what you mean by "getting them to leave their egos at the door". I don't follow.

Well lessee. Most agencies in the state operate on VHF and have been for some time. No big issues and things work for their intended purpose. Boulder county is the closest local example of this.

I disagree on the statement that "most agencies in the state operate on VHF". It is a big mix between EMS, police, and fire on band usage, and no first responder agency is on one band state-wide. EMS probably comes the closest with capabilities, followed by fire, then police. But again, nobody is 100% on one band. DTRS is an attempt to consolidate all first responders onto a common system in a common band (and common band doesn't really need to apply since OBT can be done on the network and users can program 800 MHz talk groups and use them on OBT). And yes, if Boulder county is going to be championed for interoperability - look at what makes it work. All agencies on a common band using common technologies (VHF and analog). Imagine if this could be done state-wide, and that is what DTRS is trying to accomplish. All agencies on a common band using common technologies (800 MHz and P-25).
 

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State decides that 800 MHz is the ultimate radio band and that everybody should be crammed on to 3 MHz of spectrum with equipment costs 3 to 5 times higher than what agencies are used to spending on field equipment replacement. Nevermind that it doesn't work worth a damn in mountain terrain or even in some flat terrain.

You're right on the point of 800 MHz. It is a thin band and several studies by PSWN and Motorola have shown that 800 MHz is not the choice all-around band. UHF is probably the best "all-around band" to use. The only issue with VHF and UHF are that they are congested bands already and don't have the bandwidth available to support a large system. There would probably be no way that as many channels as are on the air in the Denver metro. area would be there if VHF or UHF were used. DTRS has nearly all allocations in the 821 band available to it in most of the state, less the large metro areas. Getting frequencies in 800 MHz, I believe, is easier than VHF or UHF. I wouldn't prefer 800 MHz either, but it is the direction that was taken, so I go with it.

On the cost of equipment - not sure what to say. They're not $300 conventional VHF radios anymore, I guess. But I would agree that the cost of a subscriber is pretty high.

Plus as an added bonus you have to get permission from a committee in the Metro area that decides how you will access the network and what you will be allowed to have.

What do you mean by a "committee in the Metro area"? Read rules 3.2 through 3.5 of the CCNC by-laws (available for the public's viewing at http://www.ccncinc.org) and you'll see that the Denver area by far does not have a monopoly on the committee. Some agencies in the Denver area have standing positions because of their significant investments in the system, but they do not have any more of a vote than the rest of the directors, and certainly do not comprise a majority of the directors so as to sway the overall voting outcome. A board of 36 people from around the state decide how users will access the network and what they will be allowed to have.

Takes away the independence of an agency to operate their daily communications. Something that does not bode well with some.

What independence is taken away? The agency owns, maintains, purchases and repairs their own radios. The state (or other agencies) takes care of monitoring and maintaining the network, which is an added budget bonus - every agency on the network doesn't need a shop of radio technicians. The only thing that they can't do is program their radios, and this is done at no cost to the agency and is taken care of quickly by an authorized programming agency. Besides, I don't think that it would be smart to hand out full access system keys to every agency in the state on the network. There does need to be some control over the system key and system access, and I think that is certainly reasonable.

Now the threat of withholding grant money for communications equipment replacement unless you jump on the DTRS bandwagon. Uh there's a word for that kind of approach.

There are a few loopholes in the verbiage of federal grant wording that can allow an agency to pretty much do what they want, if one looks close enough. But again, if the goal is to have everyone on a common band using common technologies, then isn't DTRS the way to go?

A Denver metro coordinated operation could have worked and on 800 MHz.

Yep! Agreed.

Everywhere else could have stayed on VHF and upgraded to P25.

Well, again, back to my original point: if all first responders in Colorado are using the same band and the same technology, we'll be better off.

Oh and BTW analog allows interop too.

Sure does - and it has the same stipulations for interoperability as P-25 does.

Not true. The system was a motorola ASTRO 25 (3600 Baud)mixed mode analog digital system. Not P25 in the true sense. It was later upgraded to true P25 for a price.

My point was that there was only one vendor available for P-25 800 MHz infrastructure back then.

I should have qualified it by saying that the *real* DTRS project started when the State put in the first P-25 zone controller, not when it was a combined Douglas/Jeffco project.

Instead of the state thinking the world revolves around the Denver metro area

I disagree with this observation as the Denver metro. area does not have 100% coverage or the capacity required for the operations. On the contrary, most of the site buildout has been done in areas outside of the Denver metro. area!


there should have been a serious look at what agencies throughout the state were using and which band had the majority of use. It's obvious excluding the metro area that it is primarily VHF. And with narrowband mandates there is plenty of channel availability now in the VHF range. 800 may work fine (Though UHF does much better) in the metro area but middle of nowhere Eastern Plains and the mountains forget it.

I agree - see my discussion above on bands.

I constantly hear CSP on "State 3 VHF" because of zero coverage in the dist 3C and 6C mountainous areas.

One issue I take is that individuals here are judging the system coverage already and it's not even complete. When CCNC announces that buildout of sites on the network is complete, THEN i'd be willing to hear complaints about coverage. There are still many, many, many sites to be built out over the next several years. Nobody has claimed that the system currently has 100% portable or mobile radio coverage throughout the state.

Explain to those first responders why this technological marvel that is supposed to make everything wonderful doesn't when they have to battle for a channel grant to get an urgent voice message to dispatch or to a hospital or at a major incident. I hear this on the air almost daily.

What do you mean "battle for a channel grant"? Busies? Range issues? Again, i'm well aware that there is capacity and coverage issues - and again, nobody has claimed that the system has unlimited capacity and 100% coverage. In my opinion, it's up to the individual agencies to evaluate the system's coverage and capacity BEFORE coming on to the system to ensure that it will suit the needs of that individual agency. If it doesn't, that agency needs to bring the appropriate infrastructure to the table so that the system will suit the needs of that agency.

Again as I have said before this system needs to get it's capacity increased in order to get everyone on board that the state is so adamant about cramming on it NOW.

Yep - agreed. As agencies come on to the system, they need to be bringing the infrastructure to offset their loading.

Based on your long-form writing here I am of the impression you are a state employee trying to teach the virtures of how wonderful DTRS is?

Nope - government work isn't my cup of tea. There's MUCH more money in the private sector.

Here's my bottom line - communications will be better if all first responders are on the same band using the same technology. I am a BIG fan of statewide systems - SLERS, MARCS, Palmetto 800, DTRS, WyoLink, etc. and I will be an advocate for whatever technology or vendor is supplying the statewide solution. True, there are probably other ways, and possibly better ways, to build out a system - but DTRS is the best thing that's out there in Colorado to this end.
 
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epbernstein

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jimmnn said:
Who could not operate on Red3? Longmont's Hazmat unit appeared to be the main one operating and I heard them talking to command on Red3 alot.

Jim<

2570. Needed the mobile communications van to be able to coordinate city and county FD responders.
 

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Odd I heard plenty of radio traffic from 25xx units during that incident on RED-3.

Any time there is a major incident requiring a command post the comm van usually gets sent out along with a senior dispatcher.

Initially things sounded pretty bad but fortunately it was not.

Phil.
 

jimmnn

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epbernstein said:
2570. Needed the mobile communications van to be able to coordinate city and county FD responders.

Comm van routinely get's sent especially in Boulder even on SAR's and such that does not immediatly mean communication problems.

Monitored the entire incident and never heard any comm problems.

Jim<
 

Thayne

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1. I know this isn't a poll, but I also agree with Phil
2. I firmly believe it is not good to "put all your eggs in one basket"
3. That's why I have a little Kel-Tec in my pants leg even if the Glock is in my pocket
4. You sure sound like a future PERA-Suckling, but thats OK cause it keeps me in beer money too
 
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